Minor Party and Independent General Election Discussion

[Progressive Pessimist]

Colorado has a nice long presidential ballot:

    Bill Hammons/Eric Bodenstab, Unity Party of Colorado
    Howie Hawkins/Angela Nicole Walker, Green Party
    Blake Huber/Frank Atwood, Approval Voting Party
    Jo Jorgensen/Jeremy “Spike” Cohen, Libertarian Party
    Brian Carroll/Amar Patel, American Solidarity Party
    Phil Collins/Billy Joe Parker, Prohibition Party
    Roque “Rocky” De La Fuente/Darcy G. Richardson, Alliance Party
    Dario Hunter/Dawn Neptune Adams, Progressive Party
    Alyson Kennedy/Malcolm Jarrett, Socialist Workers Party
    Joseph Kishore/Norissa Santa Cruz, Socialist Equality Party
    Kyle Kenley Kopitke/Nathan Re Vo Sorenson, American Independent Party
    Gloria La Riva/Sunil Freeman, Party for Socialism and Liberation
    Mark Charles/Sedinam Moyowasifza Curry, unaffiliated
    Princess Khadijah Maryam Jacob-Fambro/Khadijah Maryam Jacob Sr., unaffiliated
    Joe McHugh/Liz Storm, unaffiliated
    Brock Pierce/Karla Ballard, unaffiliated
    Jordan “Cancer” Scott/Jennifer Tepool, unaffiliated
    Kanye West/Michelle Tidball, unaffiliated
    Kasey Wells/Rachel Wells, write-in
    Todd Cella/Timothy Bryan Cella, write-in
    Tom Hoefling/Andy Prior, write-in
    Valerie McCray/Mary Lett, write-in

https://www.denverpost.com/2020/08/19/presidential-candidates-2020-colorado-ballot/

Wow! So Biden is technically, literally running against cancer!

[walleye26]

In my experience, younger Millennials and Gen Z’s that vote Libertarian have the following characteristics:
1) White males
2) Reject socialism and many forms of government control
3) Are really concerned about government spending and the debt
4) Think both parties are corrupt & only care about big money
5) Are non-religious and are sick of the GOP’s social/cultural conservatism
6) Don’t like the Democrats plans to spend a bunch on social welfare stuff.
The most important of the 6, though, are #2, 4, and 5.

[GeorgiaModerate]

https://twitter.com/intelligencer/status/1296990661682573312

[PSOL]

So this is happening

Jimmy Dore is also a guest speaker.

[The Mikado]

So this is happening

Jimmy Dore is also a guest speaker.

Just replicating all the effort the Greens have to do for ballot access, candidate recruitment, etc. It's dumb either way, but they might as well just join the Greens if this is what they want.

OTOH it's gonna be hilarious in 2024 when the Greens keep complaining that this "People's Party" is spoiling their candidates and splitting the vote.

[Progressive Pessimist]

https://twitter.com/intelligencer/status/1296990661682573312

Hahaha! If true, we have yet another self-won for the GOP.

[Indy Texas]

In my experience, younger Millennials and Gen Z’s that vote Libertarian have the following characteristics:
1) White males
2) Reject socialism and many forms of government control
3) Are really concerned about government spending and the debt
4) Think both parties are corrupt & only care about big money
5) Are non-religious and are sick of the GOP’s social/cultural conservatism
6) Don’t like the Democrats plans to spend a bunch on social welfare stuff.
The most important of the 6, though, are #2, 4, and 5.

I think there is a certain generational aspect to some of this.

I'm a mid-Millennial (b. late '80s) and I think for a lot of people my age, libertarianism served the purpose that socialism or tankie LARPing seems to be serving for some disaffected Zoomers. It's an anti-establishment ideology that allows you to criticize the status quo without taking sides in contemporary political conflicts. This was especially true in the Bush years when conservatism was heavily defined by opposition to gay marriage and support for war in Afghanistan, Iraq and possibly Iran.

A lot of the people I knew who identified as libertarians in their late teens/early 20s simply drifted into the mainstreams of one of the major parties as they got older.

One of the most ironic and disturbing phenomena is how many college kids who were into Ron Paul in 2008 are now basically blood-and-soil Trumpists, and I think that says a lot about what libertarianism actually is as an ideology in practice in the United States.

[BaldEagle1991]

In my experience, younger Millennials and Gen Z’s that vote Libertarian have the following characteristics:
1) White males
2) Reject socialism and many forms of government control
3) Are really concerned about government spending and the debt
4) Think both parties are corrupt & only care about big money
5) Are non-religious and are sick of the GOP’s social/cultural conservatism
6) Don’t like the Democrats plans to spend a bunch on social welfare stuff.
The most important of the 6, though, are #2, 4, and 5.

I think there is a certain generational aspect to some of this.

I'm a mid-Millennial (b. late '80s) and I think for a lot of people my age, libertarianism served the purpose that socialism or tankie LARPing seems to be serving for some disaffected Zoomers. It's an anti-establishment ideology that allows you to criticize the status quo without taking sides in contemporary political conflicts. This was especially true in the Bush years when conservatism was heavily defined by opposition to gay marriage and support for war in Afghanistan, Iraq and possibly Iran.

A lot of the people I knew who identified as libertarians in their late teens/early 20s simply drifted into the mainstreams of one of the major parties as they got older.

One of the most ironic and disturbing phenomena is how many college kids who were into Ron Paul in 2008 are now basically blood-and-soil Trumpists, and I think that says a lot about what libertarianism actually is as an ideology in practice in the United States.

Basically you described a lot of people that I know.

Although I don't think a lot of Ron Paul youth in 2008-2012 became Trumpists.

[Indy Texas]

In my experience, younger Millennials and Gen Z’s that vote Libertarian have the following characteristics:
1) White males
2) Reject socialism and many forms of government control
3) Are really concerned about government spending and the debt
4) Think both parties are corrupt & only care about big money
5) Are non-religious and are sick of the GOP’s social/cultural conservatism
6) Don’t like the Democrats plans to spend a bunch on social welfare stuff.
The most important of the 6, though, are #2, 4, and 5.

I think there is a certain generational aspect to some of this.

I'm a mid-Millennial (b. late '80s) and I think for a lot of people my age, libertarianism served the purpose that socialism or tankie LARPing seems to be serving for some disaffected Zoomers. It's an anti-establishment ideology that allows you to criticize the status quo without taking sides in contemporary political conflicts. This was especially true in the Bush years when conservatism was heavily defined by opposition to gay marriage and support for war in Afghanistan, Iraq and possibly Iran.

A lot of the people I knew who identified as libertarians in their late teens/early 20s simply drifted into the mainstreams of one of the major parties as they got older.

One of the most ironic and disturbing phenomena is how many college kids who were into Ron Paul in 2008 are now basically blood-and-soil Trumpists, and I think that says a lot about what libertarianism actually is as an ideology in practice in the United States.

Basically you described a lot of people that I know.

Although I don't think a lot of Ron Paul youth in 2008-2012 became Trumpists.

If you read articles about the Alt-Right types, a lot of them will mention getting into politics because of Ron Paul.

[StateBoiler]

In my experience, younger Millennials and Gen Z’s that vote Libertarian have the following characteristics:
1) White males
2) Reject socialism and many forms of government control
3) Are really concerned about government spending and the debt
4) Think both parties are corrupt & only care about big money
5) Are non-religious and are sick of the GOP’s social/cultural conservatism
6) Don’t like the Democrats plans to spend a bunch on social welfare stuff.
The most important of the 6, though, are #2, 4, and 5.

I think there is a certain generational aspect to some of this.

I'm a mid-Millennial (b. late '80s) and I think for a lot of people my age, libertarianism served the purpose that socialism or tankie LARPing seems to be serving for some disaffected Zoomers. It's an anti-establishment ideology that allows you to criticize the status quo without taking sides in contemporary political conflicts. This was especially true in the Bush years when conservatism was heavily defined by opposition to gay marriage and support for war in Afghanistan, Iraq and possibly Iran.

A lot of the people I knew who identified as libertarians in their late teens/early 20s simply drifted into the mainstreams of one of the major parties as they got older.

One of the most ironic and disturbing phenomena is how many college kids who were into Ron Paul in 2008 are now basically blood-and-soil Trumpists, and I think that says a lot about what libertarianism actually is as an ideology in practice in the United States.

Basically you described a lot of people that I know.

Although I don't think a lot of Ron Paul youth in 2008-2012 became Trumpists.

If you read articles about the Alt-Right types, a lot of them will mention getting into politics because of Ron Paul.

Ron Paul is a right-wing version of Bernie Sanders. The outsider in the contest that points out how screwed up the establishment he's running against are. Trump did the same to be fair. The difference between Paul and Trump is Paul was defined by his principles, while Trump has no principles.

There's a huge social media/internet context to all this that for example drives Jorgensen to have 51-state ballot access. Type "Libertarian podcast" into google and see the huge number of hits you get. There's a lot of people that make their living now just off doing that, so that gives you context of the size of listenership. It's not like they view everything in terms of "I am right, you are wrong". There's one I listen to called "We Are Libertarians" that in 2016 was espousing the virtues of Sanders (in contrast to Clinton who the show hated) as far as the problems in government as they see them, that Sanders was the more likely of the two to reform them.

It also should be stated that their growth is due in large part to the Republicans and Democrats nominating bad candidates. What the Democrats have done this year with kicking the Greens off the ballot using a bunch of tricks, they can't do that to the Libertarians even if they wanted to because it's become a structurally stronger party to overcome the ballot access hurdles the Republicans and Democrats have setup.

[StateBoiler]

All from Ballot Access News:

Alabama

Jo Jorgensen is the only presidential candidate who submitted an Alabama petition this year. The deadline was August 20. The petition, which required 5,000 signatures, has already been verified.

Alabama voters will see three presidential candidates on their ballot, the smallest number in that state since 1964. In 1964, the only choices were Barry Goldwater and unpledged segregationist Alabama Democratic electors.

Tennessee

The Tennessee Secretary of State’s website has this list of presidential candidates who filed petitions. The only qualified parties in Tennessee are the Republican and Democratic Parties, so all others must use the independent presidential procedure, which requires 275 signatures.

Three independent petitions have already been approved: those for the Libertarian, Alliance, and Socialist Workers Party presidential nominees.

Still under review are petitions for the nominees of the Constitution, Green, Prohibition, Socialism & Liberation, and Unity Parties. Also under review are the petitions for three independent candidates: Brock Pierce, Horace Taylor, and Kanye West.

Maine

Only five presidential candidates will be on the November ballot in Maine: the nominees of the Democratic, Republican, Libertarian, Green, and Alliance Parties.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Here's the ASP ballot access map as of a few days ago, according to the Brian Carrol campaign facebook page.


anyone know when Washington state announces their ballot?

[Torrain]

anyone know when Washington state announces their ballot?

Military ballots are sent off on Sept. 19th, so well before then.

Additional, the Minor Party & Independent Presidential Candidates Form says that after the ballot has been published, no more than five days may pass before you challenge the presence/absence of candidates on the ballot.

Assuming there's at least a week after that five day period (to allow the courts to rule on ballot challenges), I'd say we have a maximum of two weeks to wait for the filing.

I couldn't find an exact date on the SOS website, so that speculation is all I've got.

[StateBoiler]

No petitions succeed in Missouri. Only parties on ballot will be R, D, Libertarian, Green, and Constitution.

New York Independence Party nominate Brock Pierce.

Only petition submitted in Wyoming was for Brock Pierce. R, D, Libertarian, and Constitution already on ballot.

[PSOL]

It’s odd knowing that Brock Pierce is doing better at getting on the ballot then Kanye West, although I don’t see him doing better in getting more voters then him.

I have to hand it to the SWP for their persistence as a micro-sect to be on the ballot.

[StateBoiler]

It’s odd knowing that Brock Pierce is doing better at getting on the ballot then Kanye West, although I don’t see him doing better in getting more voters then him.

Probably has more money put into it to get him on the ballot. Kanye's operation appears to be more done on the cheap and relying on his celebrity.

[DINGO Joe]

It’s odd knowing that Brock Pierce is doing better at getting on the ballot then Kanye West, although I don’t see him doing better in getting more voters then him.

Probably has more money put into it to get him on the ballot. Kanye's operation appears to be more done on the cheap and relying on his celebrity.

I'd disagree with every point here.  Kanye's torched plenty of money trying to get on state ballots that Pierce didn't even attempt.  Since Pierce has actually filed an FEC report we know he's spent over $1 mil.  Also, there have been several affidavits indicating petition gatherers have frequently tried to hide Kanye's name when gathering signatures.  Just because Kanye's efforts have been more incompetent and unethical doesn't mean he's spending less.

[StateBoiler]

It’s odd knowing that Brock Pierce is doing better at getting on the ballot then Kanye West, although I don’t see him doing better in getting more voters then him.

Probably has more money put into it to get him on the ballot. Kanye's operation appears to be more done on the cheap and relying on his celebrity.

I'd disagree with every point here.  Kanye's torched plenty of money trying to get on state ballots that Pierce didn't even attempt.  Since Pierce has actually filed an FEC report we know he's spent over $1 mil.  Also, there have been several affidavits indicating petition gatherers have frequently tried to hide Kanye's name when gathering signatures.  Just because Kanye's efforts have been more incompetent and unethical doesn't mean he's spending less.

So what are the people signing the petition for think they're signing?

You can also torch a lot of money and still be cheap in this context.

BAN again:

Five presidential candidates have had their Minnesota petitions validated by the Secretary of State: the nominees of the Libertarian, Socialist Workers, and Socialism & Liberation Parties; and two independent candidates, Kanye West and Brock Pierce.

In addition, the three qualified parties with presidential nominees are the Democratic-Farmer-Labor, Republican, and Legal Marijuana Parties. The Legal Marijuana Party nominee is Howie Hawkins, who in other states is the Green Party nominee.

Unless there are other outstanding petitions, I guess that means the Minnesota Independence Party did not qualify with Rocky De La Fuente.

The Oregon Progressive Party have nominated Dario Hunter, who lost the Green nomination to Hawkins.

[DINGO Joe]

You'll have to Wade thru the Kanye thread if you wish to read the stories as I'm not relinking him here.  The people Kanye have hired to gather signatures have generated a fair amount of negative press for their various actions, probably making it modestly harder for other signature gatherers.


And while it's not the greatest source, or maybe for Kanye it is, TMZ is saying Kanye is spending up to 500,000 to try to get on AZ ballot.

https://amp.tmz.com/2020/08/26/kanye-west-presidential-campaign-arizona-ballot-blitz/

[StateBoiler]

Re Minnesota, Howie Hawkins and the Green, Richard Winger in the comments section says this:

The Green Party did petition for president in Minnesota, but did not submit the petition, because Minnesota doesn’t permit fusion for president. In order to accept the Legal Marijuana Now Party presidential nomination, Hawkins had to withhold the Green petition.

Legal Marijuana Now is a qualified state party in Minnesota, thus no petitioning required.

Jorgensen petition verified in Virginia. Only other petition is Kanye West which is being checked for accuracy.

Idaho: 3 petitions submitted for Rocky De La Fuente, Kanye West, and Brock Pierce. R, D, Libertarian, and Constitution already on ballot.

Supreme Court Justice Kagan denied relief to the Montana Secretary of State's request to reinstate the Green Party to the ballot. She did not refer to any other Justice and did not ask for a response from the other side. There's a 2nd case in the Ninth Circuit, not filed by the Montana Secretary of State but by some Green Party nominees there.

[The Mikado]

Jorgensen petition verified in Virginia. Only other petition is Kanye West which is being checked for accuracy.

I thought Hawkins also petitioned in VA?

[Tender Branson]

Jorgensen/Cohen (LIB) are now officially on the ballot in 48 states + DC.

They have submitted more than enough signatures in NH (those are being verified).

Only in RI (which has a late filing deadline) they have not submitted signatures yet.

[The Mikado]

If West misses VA, VA joins the surprisingly long list of states where Trump/Biden/Jorgensen will be the only names on the ballot.

[The Mikado]

It'd be a lot easier to create a "Libertarian Party is only 3rd party on the ballot" list if the Constitution and Alliance Parties were better at updating their info.

I'm gonna assume Kanye doesn't make Virginia for this first attempt, but VA may change here. Also assuming Kanye doesn't make Arizona or North Dakota because LOL no he won't. Leaving Kentucky as default L only for now, but that may change next week.

This is my rough draft for "States where the Libertarian Party will be only third party." VA, KY, and ND all have yet to be formally decided, so those are projections on my part.

NV, WI, and WY have the Constitution Party (and WI and WY both have other minor candidates) otherwise they'd be on this list, as neither Hawkins nor West is on any of those three.

Feel free to correct if the Constitution Party or some other outfit (the Alliance Party?) is on in some of those Plains states. I couldn't find anything.

[Minnesota Mike]

As of now Howie Hawkins is not listed on the MN SOS website as a candidate in MN.

https://candidates.sos.state.mn.us/CandidateFilingResults.aspx?county=0&municipality=0&schooldistrict=0&hospitaldistrict=0&level=1&party=0&federal=True&judicial=False&executive=True&senate=True&representative=True&title=&office=0&candidateid=0