Muslims in Spain and France

[Frodo]

I am not sure if this is the right board for this thread, but it is a demographic question and -last I checked- this board isn't U.S.-exclusive:

So I have been reading the 'Ornament of the World' and looking over the most recent Pew poll on the Muslim population in Europe, and I can't help but wonder -if it hadn't been for the Inquisition and subsequent expulsion of Muslims from Spain (and forced conversion of those who remained) in the 16th century after the final success of the Reconquista, would Spain today have the greatest population of Muslims in Europe relative to everyone else?  Currently that honor belongs to France with the highest number of Muslims and the greatest proportion of the population.  

[windjammer]

It's more around 5%.

[parochial boy]

Albania and Kosovo are both majority Muslim. Bosnia and Herzegovina is about 50% Muslim

[Frodo]

Albania and Kosovo are both majority Muslim. Bosnia and Herzegovina is about 50% Muslim

And how many Muslims do those three countries have?  France by contrast has both the highest number of Muslims in Europe and the highest proportion of the population.  

In the meantime, can anyone answer my question?  

[Zaybay]

The answer is probably no.

A Spain that's not as zealous with its reconquista and subsequent inquisition is still a Spain that kicks out the Muslims. The brutal practices of Spain allowed the depopulation of Muslims to be achieved at a very quick rate, but a non-zealous Spain would still have expelled its Muslim population in due time. Many other Christian kingdoms who chaffed at how brutal the Spanish were also participated in similar, though slightly tamer, practices, and its hard to imagine that Spain would just tolerate the Andalusian presence. Perhaps there would be more people of Arab and Berber descent in the Iberian Peninsula, but they would've long converted out of fear or enforcement from the crown.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

doesn't Russia have the most Muslims in Europe?

[100% pro-life no matter what]

Forgive my ignorance, but why does Western Europe in general have a greater population of Muslims than the US does?  Is it as simple as that it is physically closer to the Middle East, so it sees more immigration from there (kind of like with the US and Latin America), or is it more complex than that?

[Former President tack50]

Forgive my ignorance, but why does Western Europe in general have a greater population of Muslims than the US does?  Is it as simple as that it is physically closer to the Middle East, so it sees more immigration from there (kind of like with the US and Latin America), or is it more complex than that?

Nah it is as simple as Western Europe being physically closer to the Middle East (and Africa) and therefore getting more immigration from there.

It is also related, of course, to the colonial empires European countries used to have as well. I would imagine most of Britain's muslims are of Pakistani or Nigerian descent while most of France's muslims come from their former colonies like Algeria or Senegal for instance.

Of course it is not a 1:1 relation, and the policies instructed by each country as well as their economic situations and the "snowball effect" that tends to be caused by immigrant communities (if you are from one country and seeking to emigrate, you are likely to go to a country where there is already a large community of your country of origin; as well as you are more likely to have friends or extended family there) influences things a lot.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Who are the Muslims who live in Hungary?

[Frodo]

Looks like I had to go back six years to find the answer:

Muslims Demand "Right of Return" to Spain

I support their repatriation to Spain.  It is a matter of simple justice since those who were expelled were as Iberian (by then) as the Christians who threw them out. 

[Former President tack50]

Looks like I had to go back six years to find the answer:

Muslims Demand "Right of Return" to Spain

I support their repatriation to Spain.  It is a matter of simple justice since those who were expelled were as Iberian (by then) as the Christians who threw them out. 

Lol no

Those muslims (presumably most in Morocco? No idea where they went tbh) have 0 claim to being Spanish whatsoever. It's been 400 years by now. They are simply just way too removed from Spain in order for that to be an actual thing.

[crals]

Albania and Kosovo are both majority Muslim. Bosnia and Herzegovina is about 50% Muslim

And how many Muslims do those three countries have?  France by contrast has both the highest number of Muslims in Europe and the highest proportion of the population.  

In the meantime, can anyone answer my question?  

France doesn't even have the highest proportion in the EU, only the highest in Western Europe.

[Frodo]

Looks like I had to go back six years to find the answer:

Muslims Demand "Right of Return" to Spain

I support their repatriation to Spain.  It is a matter of simple justice since those who were expelled were as Iberian (by then) as the Christians who threw them out.  

Lol no

Those muslims (presumably most in Morocco? No idea where they went tbh) have 0 claim to being Spanish whatsoever. It's been 400 years by now. They are simply just way too removed from Spain in order for that to be an actual thing.

The measures being required of Sephardic Jews to prove their Iberian ancestry can just as easily be applied to Moriscos.  If anything, it should be easier for Moriscos, since they were expelled more than a century later, hence the likelihood of better document preservation.  The justification being used to allow repatriation for one (Sephardic Jews) but not the other (Moriscos) sounds like a distinction without a difference.  

[Former President tack50]

Looks like I had to go back six years to find the answer:

Muslims Demand "Right of Return" to Spain

I support their repatriation to Spain.  It is a matter of simple justice since those who were expelled were as Iberian (by then) as the Christians who threw them out.  

Lol no

Those muslims (presumably most in Morocco? No idea where they went tbh) have 0 claim to being Spanish whatsoever. It's been 400 years by now. They are simply just way too removed from Spain in order for that to be an actual thing.

The measures being required of Sephardic Jews to prove their Iberian ancestry can just as easily be applied to Moriscos.  If anything, it should be easier for Moriscos, since they were expelled more than a century later, hence the likelihood of better document preservation.  The justification being used to allow repatriation for one (Sephardic Jews) but not the other (Moriscos) sounds like a distinction without a difference.  

Tbh if that is the justification I'd get rid of the Sephardic thing as well. Very few people used it anyways

[Frodo]

Looks like I had to go back six years to find the answer:

Muslims Demand "Right of Return" to Spain

I support their repatriation to Spain.  It is a matter of simple justice since those who were expelled were as Iberian (by then) as the Christians who threw them out.  

Lol no

Those muslims (presumably most in Morocco? No idea where they went tbh) have 0 claim to being Spanish whatsoever. It's been 400 years by now. They are simply just way too removed from Spain in order for that to be an actual thing.

The measures being required of Sephardic Jews to prove their Iberian ancestry can just as easily be applied to Moriscos.  If anything, it should be easier for Moriscos, since they were expelled more than a century later, hence the likelihood of better document preservation.  The justification being used to allow repatriation for one (Sephardic Jews) but not the other (Moriscos) sounds like a distinction without a difference.  

Tbh if that is the justification I'd get rid of the Sephardic thing as well. Very few people used it anyways

'Very few' you say?

132,000 descendants of expelled Jews apply for Spanish citizenship

The Spanish government initially expected 'only' around 90,000 would apply. 

[Former President tack50]

Looks like I had to go back six years to find the answer:

Muslims Demand "Right of Return" to Spain

I support their repatriation to Spain.  It is a matter of simple justice since those who were expelled were as Iberian (by then) as the Christians who threw them out.  

Lol no

Those muslims (presumably most in Morocco? No idea where they went tbh) have 0 claim to being Spanish whatsoever. It's been 400 years by now. They are simply just way too removed from Spain in order for that to be an actual thing.

The measures being required of Sephardic Jews to prove their Iberian ancestry can just as easily be applied to Moriscos.  If anything, it should be easier for Moriscos, since they were expelled more than a century later, hence the likelihood of better document preservation.  The justification being used to allow repatriation for one (Sephardic Jews) but not the other (Moriscos) sounds like a distinction without a difference.  

Tbh if that is the justification I'd get rid of the Sephardic thing as well. Very few people used it anyways

'Very few' you say?

132,000 descendants of expelled Jews apply for Spanish citizenship

The Spanish government initially expected 'only' around 90,000 would apply. 

Well only 6000 ended up getting it anyways. That is not that many people

https://www.elmundo.es/espana/2019/10/01/5d926a3bfdddff23568b45c3.html

[Frodo]

Looks like I had to go back six years to find the answer:

Muslims Demand "Right of Return" to Spain

I support their repatriation to Spain.  It is a matter of simple justice since those who were expelled were as Iberian (by then) as the Christians who threw them out.  

Lol no

Those muslims (presumably most in Morocco? No idea where they went tbh) have 0 claim to being Spanish whatsoever. It's been 400 years by now. They are simply just way too removed from Spain in order for that to be an actual thing.

The measures being required of Sephardic Jews to prove their Iberian ancestry can just as easily be applied to Moriscos.  If anything, it should be easier for Moriscos, since they were expelled more than a century later, hence the likelihood of better document preservation.  The justification being used to allow repatriation for one (Sephardic Jews) but not the other (Moriscos) sounds like a distinction without a difference.  

Tbh if that is the justification I'd get rid of the Sephardic thing as well. Very few people used it anyways

'Very few' you say?

132,000 descendants of expelled Jews apply for Spanish citizenship

The Spanish government initially expected 'only' around 90,000 would apply. 

Well only 6000 ended up getting it anyways. That is not that many people

https://www.elmundo.es/espana/2019/10/01/5d926a3bfdddff23568b45c3.html

Just because relatively few Sephardic Jews ended up becoming Spanish citizens doesn't mean the repatriation law is pointless.  Spain committed a great injustice when it expelled the Jews, so it is only just that they atone for it.  Now they should do the same for the Moriscos, and extend to them the same opportunity (and on similar terms) to prove their ancestry.   

[Indy Texas]

Looks like I had to go back six years to find the answer:

Muslims Demand "Right of Return" to Spain

I support their repatriation to Spain.  It is a matter of simple justice since those who were expelled were as Iberian (by then) as the Christians who threw them out.  

Lol no

Those muslims (presumably most in Morocco? No idea where they went tbh) have 0 claim to being Spanish whatsoever. It's been 400 years by now. They are simply just way too removed from Spain in order for that to be an actual thing.

The measures being required of Sephardic Jews to prove their Iberian ancestry can just as easily be applied to Moriscos.  If anything, it should be easier for Moriscos, since they were expelled more than a century later, hence the likelihood of better document preservation.  The justification being used to allow repatriation for one (Sephardic Jews) but not the other (Moriscos) sounds like a distinction without a difference.  

Tbh if that is the justification I'd get rid of the Sephardic thing as well. Very few people used it anyways

'Very few' you say?

132,000 descendants of expelled Jews apply for Spanish citizenship

The Spanish government initially expected 'only' around 90,000 would apply. 

Are they actually intending to move to Spain and permanently live there or are they just going to get the citizenship for the benefit of an EU passport?

(And maybe as a "Plan B" in case there is future political/economic instability in their own country, since many of these people seem to live in South America.)