HB 24-17: Sticking it to the Man Act (Vetoed)

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Sticking it to the Man Act

SENATE BILL

Be it enacted by the House of Representatives and the Senate of the Republic of Atlasia in Congress assembled,

SECTION I
No school which receives federal funding from the government of Atlasia may suspend, expel, or otherwise punish a student for any of the following reasons:

1) wearing their hair in a certain style or having dyed or colored hair
2) expressing opinions or beliefs during time allocated for students to speak or ask questions which do not demean or harass other students, or wearing articles of clothing displaying a social or political message.
3) praying or otherwise practicing their religion at school, as long as the prayers are done without significantly disturbing the class or if they are done during a time of recess
4) being absent from class,if the student is at least sixteen years of age
5) peacefully walking out of class, if the student is at least sixteen years of age
6) actions that occurred outside of school provided they were legal and non-threatening

SECTION II

1) No school in the Republic of Atlasia may prevent a student from graduating or passing a class due to debts incurred, including but not limited to lunch debt and unreturned library books, provided they satisfy all other requirements.
2) No school which receives federal funding from the government of Atlasia may prevent a student from graduating or passing a class due to absences incurred, provided they receive a passing grade and satisfy all other requirements.

People's Regional Senate
Passed 5-0 in the Atlasian Senate Assembled,

Sponsor: Encke
House Designation: HB 24-17

72 hours to debate.

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This seems fine to me, does anyone have anything to add?

[Fmr. Representative Encke]

Sorry for not posting any statement on this earlier, was busy with finals through yesterday evening.


A few things (considering I'm the sponsor, maybe it's stupid for me to be asking questions here, but the bill can be amended as necessary anyway if no one has an answer):
1) Is the term 'school' intended to include publicly funded universities?

2) What is the meaning of the word 'punish' in this context? Many of my professors include so-called 'participation credit' as part of the final grade to encourage students to come to lecture. If a student is absent from class and therefore fails the class, is this considered 'punishment?'

Removing the 'debts incurred' section from the bill. It's absolutely unacceptable to allow students to effectively steal or destroy books from the school library without punishment. May also remove 4) and 5) later but am undecided.

Sticking it to the Man Act

SENATE BILL

Be it enacted by the House of Representatives and the Senate of the Republic of Atlasia in Congress assembled,

SECTION I
No school which receives federal funding from the government of Atlasia may suspend, expel, or otherwise punish a student for any of the following reasons:

1) wearing their hair in a certain style or having dyed or colored hair
2) expressing opinions or beliefs during time allocated for students to speak or ask questions which do not demean or harass other students, or wearing articles of clothing displaying a social or political message.
3) praying or otherwise practicing their religion at school, as long as the prayers are done without significantly disturbing the class or if they are done during a time of recess
4) being absent from class,if the student is at least sixteen years of age
5) peacefully walking out of class, if the student is at least sixteen years of age
6) actions that occurred outside of school provided they were legal and non-threatening

SECTION II

1) No school in the Republic of Atlasia may prevent a student from graduating or passing a class due to debts incurred, including but not limited to lunch debt and unreturned library books, provided they satisfy all other requirements.
12) No school which receives federal funding from the government of Atlasia may prevent a student from graduating or passing a class due to absences incurred, provided they receive a passing grade and satisfy all other requirements.

People's Regional Senate
Passed 5-0 in the Atlasian Senate Assembled,

Sponsor: Encke
House Designation: HB 24-17

72 hours to debate.

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Object to the amendment, I don't think its fair to potentially ruin a student's academic progress  which could have huge concequences on the rest of their life based on the ability of them or their parents to pay debt.

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Amendment Vote

72 hours

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Nay

[PPT Spiral]

Nay

[Elcaspar]

I agree with the sentiments of the Speaker. Nay.

[cinyc]

Aye

[Fmr. Representative Encke]

Object to the amendment, I don't think its fair to potentially ruin a student's academic progress  which could have huge concequences on the rest of their life based on the ability of them or their parents to pay debt.

Haven't free lunch programs been significantly expanded in Atlasia? How exactly does one incur 'lunch debt'?

And library books at public schools are free to check out, and have fairly lenient deadlines. One only incurs debt if the books are damaged or destroyed/lost, which is absolutely grounds to withhold a diploma (at least until the debts are paid), just as vandalizing school property should be grounds for expulsion.

Aye

[RC (a la Frémont)]

Aye

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Object to the amendment, I don't think its fair to potentially ruin a student's academic progress  which could have huge concequences on the rest of their life based on the ability of them or their parents to pay debt.

Haven't free lunch programs been significantly expanded in Atlasia? How exactly does one incur 'lunch debt'?

And library books at public schools are free to check out, and have fairly lenient deadlines. One only incurs debt if the books are damaged or destroyed/lost, which is absolutely grounds to withhold a diploma (at least until the debts are paid), just as vandalizing school property should be grounds for expulsion.

Aye

I don't see how writing off a whole year, potentially more, of a student's progress is gonna get them to behave better in future. There are many ways that a student can be punished for losing or destroying books which the bill as its written still allows for, but denying a student a grade which they've worked hard for is overkill, especially if it is tied to the ability to pay rather than the severity of the student's behaviour.

I'm not sure what the situation is with school meal programs is in Atlasia but I don't think it really changes the broader principle.

[Fmr. Representative Encke]

Object to the amendment, I don't think its fair to potentially ruin a student's academic progress  which could have huge concequences on the rest of their life based on the ability of them or their parents to pay debt.

Haven't free lunch programs been significantly expanded in Atlasia? How exactly does one incur 'lunch debt'?

And library books at public schools are free to check out, and have fairly lenient deadlines. One only incurs debt if the books are damaged or destroyed/lost, which is absolutely grounds to withhold a diploma (at least until the debts are paid), just as vandalizing school property should be grounds for expulsion.

Aye

I don't see how writing off a whole year, potentially more, of a student's progress is gonna get them to behave better in future. There are many ways that a student can be punished for losing or destroying books which the bill as its written still allows for, but denying a student a grade which they've worked hard for is overkill, especially if it is tied to the ability to pay rather than the severity of the student's behaviour.

I'm not sure what the situation is with school meal programs is in Atlasia but I don't think it really changes the broader principle.

Alright, I see what you mean and I see now that the section I excised includes the phrase 'passing a class.' I do agree that there really shouldn't be any circumstances where a student incurs debt that would prevent them from passing a class; debt is handled at the school level, not the classroom level, so it would indeed be rather cruel to give a student a failing grade in a general course because of lunch debt or unreturned library books, both of which are completely unrelated to specific classes. At the same time, I've never heard of a situation where a student was failed in a specific class for school-wide debt, so I'm not sure that this is a serious problem. I'm willing to introduce another amendment with *only* the 'passing a class' provision intact.

However, graduation penalties absolutely should still be allowed, because rules that prevent students with debt from graduating only withhold the diploma until the student pays the debt. At my high school, there were a few idiots that I knew who threw their textbooks from the second-floor walkway on the last day of school and posted a video of it on Instagram. Of course, the textbooks were damaged, and were not accepted back by the library. The kids were prevented from receiving their diplomas, walking at graduation, and attending graduation celebrations until they paid for the books. A perfectly reasonable punishment for the many students with the 'I'm going to be out of here anyway, they can't stop me' attitude, and the only one that would be effective in this situation. It is absolutely unfair to force a school district, which may already be strapped for cash, to pay for items that students have destroyed or lost.

Regarding lunch debt, the status of free lunches absolutely is relevant, because people without the ability to pay for school lunches should be on free lunch programs, and people with the ability to pay for school lunches have zero business accruing lunch debt.

[OSR stands with Israel]

Nay

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Amendment defeated

3-4-0-2

[Fmr. Representative Encke]

Alright, what about this? Eliminates the word 'graduating' from Section II(1), and also eliminates the phrase 'otherwise punish' because I don't know how broadly that word is being used.

I still don't know how broad the interpretation of the word 'punish' is here, so I'm removing that phrase entirely.

Sticking it to the Man Act

SENATE BILL

Be it enacted by the House of Representatives and the Senate of the Republic of Atlasia in Congress assembled,

SECTION I
No school which receives federal funding from the government of Atlasia may suspend, or expel or otherwise punish a student for any of the following reasons:

1) wearing their hair in a certain style or having dyed or colored hair
2) expressing opinions or beliefs during time allocated for students to speak or ask questions which do not demean or harass other students, or wearing articles of clothing displaying a social or political message.
3) praying or otherwise practicing their religion at school, as long as the prayers are done without significantly disturbing the class or if they are done during a time of recess
4) being absent from class,if the student is at least sixteen years of age
5) peacefully walking out of class, if the student is at least sixteen years of age
6) actions that occurred outside of school provided they were legal and non-threatening

SECTION II

1) No school in the Republic of Atlasia may prevent a student from graduating or passing a class due to debts incurred, including but not limited to lunch debt and unreturned library books, provided they satisfy all other requirements.
2) No school which receives federal funding from the government of Atlasia may prevent a student from graduating or passing a class due to absences incurred, provided they receive a passing grade and satisfy all other requirements.

People's Regional Senate
Passed 5-0 in the Atlasian Senate Assembled,

Sponsor: Encke
House Designation: HB 24-17

72 hours to debate.

[P. Clodius Pulcher did nothing wrong]

I object to the amendment. A student should not be prevented from graduating because of debts, no matter what. Money, or a freaking book, is not more important than a person's future

[Fmr. Representative Encke]

So if a student, say, acquires debt from destroying a $200 microscope, then it should be the school's responsibility to pay for it? Alright, if you say so.

Withdrawing the amendment; I don't see us reaching an agreement here, so let's just proceed to a final vote.

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Final Vote

72 hours

[Fmr. Representative Encke]

Nay

[Sestak]

So if a student, say, acquires debt from destroying a $200 microscope, then it should be the school's responsibility to pay for it? Alright, if you say so.

Withdrawing the amendment; I don't see us reaching an agreement here, so let's just proceed to a final vote.

I mean if a middle school student breaks a microscope on accident and doesn't have the means to pay a fine, is it reasonable to come back five years later and prevent them from graduating?

[Fmr. Representative Encke]

So if a student, say, acquires debt from destroying a $200 microscope, then it should be the school's responsibility to pay for it? Alright, if you say so.

Withdrawing the amendment; I don't see us reaching an agreement here, so let's just proceed to a final vote.

I mean if a middle school student breaks a microscope on accident and doesn't have the means to pay a fine, is it reasonable to come back five years later and prevent them from graduating?

What sort of student is unable to make a few hundred dollars in five years?

[Sirius_]

So if a student, say, acquires debt from destroying a $200 microscope, then it should be the school's responsibility to pay for it? Alright, if you say so.

Withdrawing the amendment; I don't see us reaching an agreement here, so let's just proceed to a final vote.

I mean if a middle school student breaks a microscope on accident and doesn't have the means to pay a fine, is it reasonable to come back five years later and prevent them from graduating?

What sort of student is unable to make a few hundred dollars in five years?

A student who's family can barely afford food and housing and isn't able to hold a job.

[Fmr. Representative Encke]

So if a student, say, acquires debt from destroying a $200 microscope, then it should be the school's responsibility to pay for it? Alright, if you say so.

Withdrawing the amendment; I don't see us reaching an agreement here, so let's just proceed to a final vote.

I mean if a middle school student breaks a microscope on accident and doesn't have the means to pay a fine, is it reasonable to come back five years later and prevent them from graduating?

What sort of student is unable to make a few hundred dollars in five years?

A student who's family can barely afford food and housing and isn't able to hold a job.

Come on, really? A few hundred dollars in FIVE YEARS? I'm not sure if you work or not, ninja, but that's peanuts even at minimum wage (which is at least $11 in Atlasia and adjusted to cost of living at the regional level). Someone could literally save 0.2% of their paycheck (assuming bimonthly paychecks) and make the money back in less than that time.

Add that to the fact that Atlasia is far more generous than RL (consider the AtlasCare subsidy, the expanded child tax credit, the cost-of-living-adjusted minimum wage, etc. etc.) and I find it ridiculous that there's all this hand-wringing about making someone pay for something that they are responsible for damaging.

[Sirius_]

So if a student, say, acquires debt from destroying a $200 microscope, then it should be the school's responsibility to pay for it? Alright, if you say so.

Withdrawing the amendment; I don't see us reaching an agreement here, so let's just proceed to a final vote.

I mean if a middle school student breaks a microscope on accident and doesn't have the means to pay a fine, is it reasonable to come back five years later and prevent them from graduating?

What sort of student is unable to make a few hundred dollars in five years?

A student who's family can barely afford food and housing and isn't able to hold a job.

Come on, really? A few hundred dollars in FIVE YEARS? I'm not sure if you work or not, ninja, but that's peanuts even at minimum wage (which is at least $11 in Atlasia and adjusted to cost of living at the regional level). Someone could literally save 0.2% of their paycheck (assuming bimonthly paychecks) and make the money back in less than that time.

Add that to the fact that Atlasia is far more generous than RL (consider the AtlasCare subsidy, the expanded child tax credit, the cost-of-living-adjusted minimum wage, etc. etc.) and I find it ridiculous that there's all this hand-wringing about making someone pay for something that they are responsible for damaging.

This is about placing debts on children, whose parents may or may not pay them, and who might not be financially stable. This is all based on the presumption that 1. They can find the money 2. their parents actually pay the money if they don't have it themselves and 3. this will incur a major debt on the government which I don't see as being the case, as not graduating the student will result in thousands of tax dollars lost in the future.