NM Senate- Progressive challengers defeat five conservative Democrats

[smoltchanov]

Looking at legislator's ACU ratings - it seems, that the word "conservative" must be used here in strictly relative sense (as all 5 have 20-30 ratings by ACU standards). Real conservatives in the past usually had 80+ from ACU... At least - 70. Former Democratic congressman from New Mexico Harold Runnels, for example, had lifetime ACU rating 79 (a couple percentages higher, then his Republican counterpart, btw..)

[smoltchanov]

Looking at legislator's ACU ratings - it seems, that the word "conservative" must be used here in strictly relative sense (as all 5 have 20-30 ratings by ACU standards). Real conservatives in the past usually had 80+ from ACU... At least - 70. Former Democratic congressman from New Mexico Harold Runnels, for example, had lifetime ACU rating 79 (a couple percentages higher, then his Republican counterpart, btw..)

yeah, this is a disappointing sign of the Democrats' continued leftward lurch excluding moderates, not some toppling of conservative scions

You are using ACU as a barometer of conservatism when they routinely rate far right Republicans as lefties

Give better barometer for state legislators. ADA doesn't rate them (only Congress), and the only one organization i know, which does (for all 50 states and 99 legislatures) - ACU.... Anyway - there is BIG difference between 20-30 and 79... Of course - ACU is biased. But i hope it's biased in the same way in different states. When i see Democratic legislators like Hoffman (Alaska, lifetime - 69), Sheldon (Washington, 73) or even Brown (Louisiana, 65) - i understand usage of word "conservative" as applicable to them (even though - they are still LESS conservative, then some Democratic legislators even a decade ago). But 20-30 - sorry, these are moderates at most...

[smoltchanov]

Looking at legislator's ACU ratings - it seems, that the word "conservative" must be used here in strictly relative sense (as all 5 have 20-30 ratings by ACU standards). Real conservatives in the past usually had 80+ from ACU... At least - 70. Former Democratic congressman from New Mexico Harold Runnels, for example, had lifetime ACU rating 79 (a couple percentages higher, then his Republican counterpart, btw..)

yeah, this is a disappointing sign of the Democrats' continued leftward lurch excluding moderates, not some toppling of conservative scions

If the progressives had a better message that resonated enough with the people to win, what exactly is the issue here? Progressive Democrats aren’t allowed to fight for our vision inside the party? Honestly people like you might as well just advocate for abolishing the primary system all together and going back to smoke filled back rooms / conventions.

Well, to be honest - the smoke-filled rooms leaders frequently were much more adept in nominating candidates, who suited their districts extremely well, then present day "idiotic activst's dominated" system, where Democrats stubbornly nominate "bold progressives" even in conservative seats, and Republicans nominate right-wingers in liberal ones.....

[smoltchanov]

I did not find any information that these Democrats formed a coalition with the Republicans, and in Wikipedia it is the Democrat who is listed as the Majority Leader. I am very sorry that the Democrats, looking at Trump, are doing the same (alienating moderate voters, moving far to the left). I hope that the Democratic Party will lose all these races in November and understand its mistakes. I hope that Joe Biden will return bipartisanship and moderate politics to the Democratic Party.

Also (don't belongs to this topic), I will miss you, Dan Lipinski, you were very, very good Congressman

Unlikely. 2 of these 5 districts gave Hillary about 63 and 60%. 3 other - possibly.

[smoltchanov]

Looking at legislator's ACU ratings - it seems, that the word "conservative" must be used here in strictly relative sense (as all 5 have 20-30 ratings by ACU standards). Real conservatives in the past usually had 80+ from ACU... At least - 70. Former Democratic congressman from New Mexico Harold Runnels, for example, had lifetime ACU rating 79 (a couple percentages higher, then his Republican counterpart, btw..)

yeah, this is a disappointing sign of the Democrats' continued leftward lurch excluding moderates, not some toppling of conservative scions

If the progressives had a better message that resonated enough with the people to win, what exactly is the issue here? Progressive Democrats aren’t allowed to fight for our vision inside the party? Honestly people like you might as well just advocate for abolishing the primary system all together and going back to smoke filled back rooms / conventions.

Well, to be honest - the smoke-filled rooms leaders frequently were much more adept in nominating candidates, who suited their districts extremely well, then present day "idiotic activst's dominated" system, where Democrats stubbornly nominate "bold progressives" even in conservative seats, and Republicans nominate right-wingers in liberal ones.....

Three of these districts voted Clinton, one is a super narrow Trump seat that Biden will likely win in November, and even the Trump +9 seat voted for Democratic for Congress by a healthy margin (and well to the left of NM-02).

These aren’t incumbents that were being elected for being conservatives in conservative areas.

I wrote about that (about 2, third was very narrow Clinton) above. But tendency to run "ideologically pure" candidates even in the districts, which favors opposite views is absolutely clear of late. Both in Democratic and Republican primaries..

[smoltchanov]

I did not find any information that these Democrats formed a coalition with the Republicans, and in Wikipedia it is the Democrat who is listed as the Majority Leader. I am very sorry that the Democrats, looking at Trump, are doing the same (alienating moderate voters, moving far to the left). I hope that the Democratic Party will lose all these races in November and understand its mistakes. I hope that Joe Biden will return bipartisanship and moderate politics to the Democratic Party.

Also (don't belongs to this topic), I will miss you, Dan Lipinski, you were very, very good Congressman

Conservative Democrats = “I hope progressive Democrats who won their primary fair and square loss their elections to Republicans!”

Also Conservative Democrats = “How DARE you critique our lord and savior Joe Biden?! Even one criticism of Joe Biden might as well be a vote for TRUMP!”

I don't think it's better to have a Republican in Congress than a progressive Democrat (but not like Tlaib or Omar - Generic Republican is better than them). I hope they lose because then maybe Democratic voters will finally understand that moderate voters cannot be ignored. The Democratic Party should be for everyone, but more and more it looks like it is only for the ultra-left

Absolutely. The Republican party is a party of ultra-right ONLY now, the Democratic - rapidly becomes  party of ultra-left ONLY....

[smoltchanov]

I did not find any information that these Democrats formed a coalition with the Republicans, and in Wikipedia it is the Democrat who is listed as the Majority Leader. I am very sorry that the Democrats, looking at Trump, are doing the same (alienating moderate voters, moving far to the left). I hope that the Democratic Party will lose all these races in November and understand its mistakes. I hope that Joe Biden will return bipartisanship and moderate politics to the Democratic Party.

Also (don't belongs to this topic), I will miss you, Dan Lipinski, you were very, very good Congressman

Unlikely. 2 of these 5 districts gave Hillary about 63 and 60%. 3 other - possibly.

Yes, I know, but I hope that they lose, so Democratic Party will stop expelling the moderates from their ranks. We need more moderate Democrats and moderate Republicans. We need bipartisanship again and we need more bipartisanship.
 
To super-progressive Democrats, I don't say that Democratic Party doesn't need ultra-left members and/or voters. Centrist and conservative Democrats hear you, your voice and choice, but looks like ultra-left members think that moderate Democrats should be ignored

Dude, get a grip.

Dude, get a brains...

[smoltchanov]

I did not find any information that these Democrats formed a coalition with the Republicans, and in Wikipedia it is the Democrat who is listed as the Majority Leader. I am very sorry that the Democrats, looking at Trump, are doing the same (alienating moderate voters, moving far to the left). I hope that the Democratic Party will lose all these races in November and understand its mistakes. I hope that Joe Biden will return bipartisanship and moderate politics to the Democratic Party.

Also (don't belongs to this topic), I will miss you, Dan Lipinski, you were very, very good Congressman

Conservative Democrats = “I hope progressive Democrats who won their primary fair and square loss their elections to Republicans!”

Also Conservative Democrats = “How DARE you critique our lord and savior Joe Biden?! Even one criticism of Joe Biden might as well be a vote for TRUMP!”

I don't think it's better to have a Republican in Congress than a progressive Democrat (but not like Tlaib or Omar - Generic Republican is better than them). I hope they lose because then maybe Democratic voters will finally understand that moderate voters cannot be ignored. The Democratic Party should be for everyone, but more and more it looks like it is only for the ultra-left

What reality do you live in. It’s the exact opposite.

You deny, that ultra-left has bigger and bigger influence in the party with every passing year? Not even funny..... 50 years ago it was impossible to fathom someone like Ilhan Omar to be a Congresswoman. Even Phil Burton looks to be "ultraconservative" in comparison.

[smoltchanov]

I did not find any information that these Democrats formed a coalition with the Republicans, and in Wikipedia it is the Democrat who is listed as the Majority Leader. I am very sorry that the Democrats, looking at Trump, are doing the same (alienating moderate voters, moving far to the left). I hope that the Democratic Party will lose all these races in November and understand its mistakes. I hope that Joe Biden will return bipartisanship and moderate politics to the Democratic Party.

Also (don't belongs to this topic), I will miss you, Dan Lipinski, you were very, very good Congressman

Conservative Democrats = “I hope progressive Democrats who won their primary fair and square loss their elections to Republicans!”

Also Conservative Democrats = “How DARE you critique our lord and savior Joe Biden?! Even one criticism of Joe Biden might as well be a vote for TRUMP!”

I don't think it's better to have a Republican in Congress than a progressive Democrat (but not like Tlaib or Omar - Generic Republican is better than them). I hope they lose because then maybe Democratic voters will finally understand that moderate voters cannot be ignored. The Democratic Party should be for everyone, but more and more it looks like it is only for the ultra-left

What reality do you live in. It’s the exact opposite.

You deny, that ultra-left has bigger and bigger influence in the party with every passing year? Not even funny.....

Larger influence? Sure, but even then it’s only comparing to the ultra-moderate / establishment domination of the Democratic Party in the 80’s and particularly the 90’s that progressive influence has begun to grow, and even then only in the latter half of the 2000’s.

For the better, I might add. But that’s a different conversation.

To suggest Moderate’s are being ‘silenced’ is ridiculous with Joe Biden as the nominee, Hillary Clinton and Obama (a former New Democrat aligned Democrat himself) as our former nominee’s and the New Democrats still being the largest caucus in the party.

Get a grip. Y’all are doing the silencing, not being silenced, lmao.

Biden, Hillary and Obama - moderates? Even more funny. Moderates are people like Manchin or Sinema. Hillary, Obama and Biden are SOLID establishment liberals, and no less.

[smoltchanov]

I did not find any information that these Democrats formed a coalition with the Republicans, and in Wikipedia it is the Democrat who is listed as the Majority Leader. I am very sorry that the Democrats, looking at Trump, are doing the same (alienating moderate voters, moving far to the left). I hope that the Democratic Party will lose all these races in November and understand its mistakes. I hope that Joe Biden will return bipartisanship and moderate politics to the Democratic Party.

Also (don't belongs to this topic), I will miss you, Dan Lipinski, you were very, very good Congressman

Conservative Democrats = “I hope progressive Democrats who won their primary fair and square loss their elections to Republicans!”

Also Conservative Democrats = “How DARE you critique our lord and savior Joe Biden?! Even one criticism of Joe Biden might as well be a vote for TRUMP!”

I don't think it's better to have a Republican in Congress than a progressive Democrat (but not like Tlaib or Omar - Generic Republican is better than them). I hope they lose because then maybe Democratic voters will finally understand that moderate voters cannot be ignored. The Democratic Party should be for everyone, but more and more it looks like it is only for the ultra-left

What reality do you live in. It’s the exact opposite.

You deny, that ultra-left has bigger and bigger influence in the party with every passing year? Not even funny.....

Larger influence? Sure, but even then it’s only comparing to the ultra-moderate / establishment domination of the Democratic Party in the 80’s and particularly the 90’s that progressive influence has begun to grow, and even then only in the latter half of the 2000’s.

For the better, I might add. But that’s a different conversation.

To suggest Moderate’s are being ‘silenced’ is ridiculous with Joe Biden as the nominee, Hillary Clinton and Obama (a former New Democrat aligned Democrat himself) as our former nominee’s and the New Democrats still being the largest caucus in the party.

Get a grip. Y’all are doing the silencing, not being silenced, lmao.

Biden, Hillary and Obama - moderates? Even more funny. Moderates are people like Manchin or Sinema. Hillary, Obama and Biden are SOLID establishment liberals, and no less.

If you want to look at the ‘factions’ of the Democratic Party like this;

Progressive / Liberal / Moderate / Conservative, then I can somewhat understand your opinion if you’re on the Conservative side of that spectrum. I’m also very happy y’all are declining in influence vis a vis the progressive side, but I can understand. But you had decades of domination as one of the largest factions in our party, and now things are changing. Suck it up and ally yourselves with the moderates (still the largest faction in the party) or go become Republicans like the rest of your Dixiecrat brethren. Idk what to tell you. If we have our way, this will be a center-left to left wing party, and I don’t apologize for that.

I hope you will never have your way. And, BTW, do you really think i need somebody's advices?

[smoltchanov]

I did not find any information that these Democrats formed a coalition with the Republicans, and in Wikipedia it is the Democrat who is listed as the Majority Leader. I am very sorry that the Democrats, looking at Trump, are doing the same (alienating moderate voters, moving far to the left). I hope that the Democratic Party will lose all these races in November and understand its mistakes. I hope that Joe Biden will return bipartisanship and moderate politics to the Democratic Party.

Also (don't belongs to this topic), I will miss you, Dan Lipinski, you were very, very good Congressman

Conservative Democrats = “I hope progressive Democrats who won their primary fair and square loss their elections to Republicans!”

Also Conservative Democrats = “How DARE you critique our lord and savior Joe Biden?! Even one criticism of Joe Biden might as well be a vote for TRUMP!”

I don't think it's better to have a Republican in Congress than a progressive Democrat (but not like Tlaib or Omar - Generic Republican is better than them). I hope they lose because then maybe Democratic voters will finally understand that moderate voters cannot be ignored. The Democratic Party should be for everyone, but more and more it looks like it is only for the ultra-left

What reality do you live in. It’s the exact opposite.

You deny, that ultra-left has bigger and bigger influence in the party with every passing year? Not even funny.....

Larger influence? Sure, but even then it’s only comparing to the ultra-moderate / establishment domination of the Democratic Party in the 80’s and particularly the 90’s that progressive influence has begun to grow, and even then only in the latter half of the 2000’s.

For the better, I might add. But that’s a different conversation.

To suggest Moderate’s are being ‘silenced’ is ridiculous with Joe Biden as the nominee, Hillary Clinton and Obama (a former New Democrat aligned Democrat himself) as our former nominee’s and the New Democrats still being the largest caucus in the party.

Get a grip. Y’all are doing the silencing, not being silenced, lmao.

If you think Biden, Hillary and Obama are moderates, then of course there is room for moderates in the Democratic Party. But in reality, they are solid liberal politicians. Joe Biden is, probably, the most left-wing major party presidential nominee in US history. But if they are moderate, then who are JBE, Collin Peterson, Joe Manchin, Dan Lipinski? DINOs? Standard Republicans?

For present day "activists" - exactly that. And they will rather lose with "bold progressive" then win with Manchin or JBE...

[smoltchanov]

I did not find any information that these Democrats formed a coalition with the Republicans, and in Wikipedia it is the Democrat who is listed as the Majority Leader. I am very sorry that the Democrats, looking at Trump, are doing the same (alienating moderate voters, moving far to the left). I hope that the Democratic Party will lose all these races in November and understand its mistakes. I hope that Joe Biden will return bipartisanship and moderate politics to the Democratic Party.

Also (don't belongs to this topic), I will miss you, Dan Lipinski, you were very, very good Congressman

Conservative Democrats = “I hope progressive Democrats who won their primary fair and square loss their elections to Republicans!”

Also Conservative Democrats = “How DARE you critique our lord and savior Joe Biden?! Even one criticism of Joe Biden might as well be a vote for TRUMP!”

I don't think it's better to have a Republican in Congress than a progressive Democrat (but not like Tlaib or Omar - Generic Republican is better than them). I hope they lose because then maybe Democratic voters will finally understand that moderate voters cannot be ignored. The Democratic Party should be for everyone, but more and more it looks like it is only for the ultra-left

What reality do you live in. It’s the exact opposite.

You deny, that ultra-left has bigger and bigger influence in the party with every passing year? Not even funny.....

Larger influence? Sure, but even then it’s only comparing to the ultra-moderate / establishment domination of the Democratic Party in the 80’s and particularly the 90’s that progressive influence has begun to grow, and even then only in the latter half of the 2000’s.

For the better, I might add. But that’s a different conversation.

To suggest Moderate’s are being ‘silenced’ is ridiculous with Joe Biden as the nominee, Hillary Clinton and Obama (a former New Democrat aligned Democrat himself) as our former nominee’s and the New Democrats still being the largest caucus in the party.

Get a grip. Y’all are doing the silencing, not being silenced, lmao.

If you think Biden, Hillary and Obama are moderates, then of course there is room for moderates in the Democratic Party. But in reality, they are solid liberal politicians. Joe Biden is, probably, the most left-wing major party presidential nominee in US history. But if they are moderate, then who are JBE, Collin Peterson, Joe Manchin, Dan Lipinski? DINOs? Standard Republicans?

They are considered, both by the general public and themselves, to be 'Conservative Democrats'.

Conservative Democrats were people like Ralph and Sam Hall or Dan Daniel. You say Manchin votes the same way? Or even like Dan Boren?

[smoltchanov]

I did not find any information that these Democrats formed a coalition with the Republicans, and in Wikipedia it is the Democrat who is listed as the Majority Leader. I am very sorry that the Democrats, looking at Trump, are doing the same (alienating moderate voters, moving far to the left). I hope that the Democratic Party will lose all these races in November and understand its mistakes. I hope that Joe Biden will return bipartisanship and moderate politics to the Democratic Party.

Also (don't belongs to this topic), I will miss you, Dan Lipinski, you were very, very good Congressman

Conservative Democrats = “I hope progressive Democrats who won their primary fair and square loss their elections to Republicans!”

Also Conservative Democrats = “How DARE you critique our lord and savior Joe Biden?! Even one criticism of Joe Biden might as well be a vote for TRUMP!”

I don't think it's better to have a Republican in Congress than a progressive Democrat (but not like Tlaib or Omar - Generic Republican is better than them). I hope they lose because then maybe Democratic voters will finally understand that moderate voters cannot be ignored. The Democratic Party should be for everyone, but more and more it looks like it is only for the ultra-left

What reality do you live in. It’s the exact opposite.

You deny, that ultra-left has bigger and bigger influence in the party with every passing year? Not even funny.....

Larger influence? Sure, but even then it’s only comparing to the ultra-moderate / establishment domination of the Democratic Party in the 80’s and particularly the 90’s that progressive influence has begun to grow, and even then only in the latter half of the 2000’s.

For the better, I might add. But that’s a different conversation.

To suggest Moderate’s are being ‘silenced’ is ridiculous with Joe Biden as the nominee, Hillary Clinton and Obama (a former New Democrat aligned Democrat himself) as our former nominee’s and the New Democrats still being the largest caucus in the party.

Get a grip. Y’all are doing the silencing, not being silenced, lmao.

Biden, Hillary and Obama - moderates? Even more funny. Moderates are people like Manchin or Sinema. Hillary, Obama and Biden are SOLID establishment liberals, and no less.

If you want to look at the ‘factions’ of the Democratic Party like this;

Progressive / Liberal / Moderate / Conservative, then I can somewhat understand your opinion if you’re on the Conservative side of that spectrum. I’m also very happy y’all are declining in influence vis a vis the progressive side, but I can understand. But you had decades of domination as one of the largest factions in our party, and now things are changing. Suck it up and ally yourselves with the moderates (still the largest faction in the party) or go become Republicans like the rest of your Dixiecrat brethren. Idk what to tell you. If we have our way, this will be a center-left to left wing party, and I don’t apologize for that.

I hope you will never have your way. And, BTW, do you really think i need somebody's advices?

If you’re so unhappy with the way the party is going, then leave. Idk what to tell you. Us progressives aren’t ever going to shut up or sit down when it comes to fighting for what we believe in, and the young generation is with us.

"Blessed are ..... true believers")))))))

[smoltchanov]

I did not find any information that these Democrats formed a coalition with the Republicans, and in Wikipedia it is the Democrat who is listed as the Majority Leader. I am very sorry that the Democrats, looking at Trump, are doing the same (alienating moderate voters, moving far to the left). I hope that the Democratic Party will lose all these races in November and understand its mistakes. I hope that Joe Biden will return bipartisanship and moderate politics to the Democratic Party.

Also (don't belongs to this topic), I will miss you, Dan Lipinski, you were very, very good Congressman

Conservative Democrats = “I hope progressive Democrats who won their primary fair and square loss their elections to Republicans!”

Also Conservative Democrats = “How DARE you critique our lord and savior Joe Biden?! Even one criticism of Joe Biden might as well be a vote for TRUMP!”

I don't think it's better to have a Republican in Congress than a progressive Democrat (but not like Tlaib or Omar - Generic Republican is better than them). I hope they lose because then maybe Democratic voters will finally understand that moderate voters cannot be ignored. The Democratic Party should be for everyone, but more and more it looks like it is only for the ultra-left

What reality do you live in. It’s the exact opposite.

You deny, that ultra-left has bigger and bigger influence in the party with every passing year? Not even funny.....

Larger influence? Sure, but even then it’s only comparing to the ultra-moderate / establishment domination of the Democratic Party in the 80’s and particularly the 90’s that progressive influence has begun to grow, and even then only in the latter half of the 2000’s.

For the better, I might add. But that’s a different conversation.

To suggest Moderate’s are being ‘silenced’ is ridiculous with Joe Biden as the nominee, Hillary Clinton and Obama (a former New Democrat aligned Democrat himself) as our former nominee’s and the New Democrats still being the largest caucus in the party.

Get a grip. Y’all are doing the silencing, not being silenced, lmao.

If you think Biden, Hillary and Obama are moderates, then of course there is room for moderates in the Democratic Party. But in reality, they are solid liberal politicians. Joe Biden is, probably, the most left-wing major party presidential nominee in US history. But if they are moderate, then who are JBE, Collin Peterson, Joe Manchin, Dan Lipinski? DINOs? Standard Republicans?

They are considered, both by the general public and themselves, to be 'Conservative Democrats'.

Conservative Democrats were people like Ralph and Sam Hall or Dan Daniel. You say Manchin votes the same way?

Im saying that Manchin calls himself a 'Conservative Democrat', the political world considers him a 'Conservative Democrat', and his positions are on the 'Conservative' end of the 'Democratic Party'.

If you have a problem with that, bring it up with Manchin.

I would understand "relatively conservative", but - no more. There is very simple criterion - ratings from "ideologically pure" organizations like ADA and ACU . If you get about 50 from BOTH of them - you are moderate. If you get 80 ADA and 10 ACU - you are solid liberal. If 100 ADA and 0 ACU - you are "bold progressive". And so on. Then - who is Manchin?

[smoltchanov]

*Centrist/Conservative Democrat defeats Progressive in primary* "Don't be so unreasonable, you want the Republicans/Trump to win just to 'send a message'!? Just because your candidate didn't win doesn't mean you're being 'excluded.' We need to work together, so unite behind the Democrat."

*Progressive defeats Centrist/Conservative Democrat* "How dare Democrats move (relatively/even slightly) to the left! They're excluding me! I'm voting Republican to send them a message!"

My cousin did exactly that in 2016. He wasn't big fan of Trump, but he hated Hillary more))))

[smoltchanov]

I did not find any information that these Democrats formed a coalition with the Republicans, and in Wikipedia it is the Democrat who is listed as the Majority Leader. I am very sorry that the Democrats, looking at Trump, are doing the same (alienating moderate voters, moving far to the left). I hope that the Democratic Party will lose all these races in November and understand its mistakes. I hope that Joe Biden will return bipartisanship and moderate politics to the Democratic Party.

Also (don't belongs to this topic), I will miss you, Dan Lipinski, you were very, very good Congressman

Conservative Democrats = “I hope progressive Democrats who won their primary fair and square loss their elections to Republicans!”

Also Conservative Democrats = “How DARE you critique our lord and savior Joe Biden?! Even one criticism of Joe Biden might as well be a vote for TRUMP!”

I don't think it's better to have a Republican in Congress than a progressive Democrat (but not like Tlaib or Omar - Generic Republican is better than them). I hope they lose because then maybe Democratic voters will finally understand that moderate voters cannot be ignored. The Democratic Party should be for everyone, but more and more it looks like it is only for the ultra-left

What reality do you live in. It’s the exact opposite.

You deny, that ultra-left has bigger and bigger influence in the party with every passing year? Not even funny.....

Larger influence? Sure, but even then it’s only comparing to the ultra-moderate / establishment domination of the Democratic Party in the 80’s and particularly the 90’s that progressive influence has begun to grow, and even then only in the latter half of the 2000’s.

For the better, I might add. But that’s a different conversation.

To suggest Moderate’s are being ‘silenced’ is ridiculous with Joe Biden as the nominee, Hillary Clinton and Obama (a former New Democrat aligned Democrat himself) as our former nominee’s and the New Democrats still being the largest caucus in the party.

Get a grip. Y’all are doing the silencing, not being silenced, lmao.

Biden, Hillary and Obama - moderates? Even more funny. Moderates are people like Manchin or Sinema. Hillary, Obama and Biden are SOLID establishment liberals, and no less.

If you want to look at the ‘factions’ of the Democratic Party like this;

Progressive / Liberal / Moderate / Conservative, then I can somewhat understand your opinion if you’re on the Conservative side of that spectrum. I’m also very happy y’all are declining in influence vis a vis the progressive side, but I can understand. But you had decades of domination as one of the largest factions in our party, and now things are changing. Suck it up and ally yourselves with the moderates (still the largest faction in the party) or go become Republicans like the rest of your Dixiecrat brethren. Idk what to tell you. If we have our way, this will be a center-left to left wing party, and I don’t apologize for that.

Moderates almost never dominated in Democratic Party. FDR. He was moderate or progressive? He was progressive, but moderate by today's standards. LBJ? He was moderate or progressive? (Only as President) He was progressive, but moderate by today's standards. Even Barack Obama. He was progressive, but he is moderate by today's standards

FDR and LBJ, both of whom wanted to establish national health care systems, were neither moderates. FDR was a progressive in my opinion, and LBJ was an establishment Liberal, but of course both are also the products of their time. And you’re trying to tell me Southern Dixiecrats weren’t a powerful force in the party, particularly in Congress, constantly holding up their progressive agendas’s? I’m glad Dixiecrats like you have gone from a powerful force to a pipsqueak, sorry not sorry.

Moderates still control this party. And yes both Biden and Hillary are moderates. Hillary didn’t even support a public option FFS.

Absolutely no. Which were their ratings while in Senate? About 80-85 ADA and 10-15 ACU. These are not "moderate's ratings", these are solid establishment liberal ratings.... A person, which support liberal agenda in 4 cases out of 5 is not a moderate, but - liberal.

[smoltchanov]

Glorious news

Yeah! March, march left))))))

[smoltchanov]

As a Democrat who can be defined as pro-life much like the five incumbents who lost, I don't think abortion should be a litmus test, and honestly I think a decent chunk of the red avatars here would agree with me (the more activist base not so much). That's not really the problem here. It's their more conservative fiscal views that's the real problem here and in similar primaries (IL-03) in the past. I would have voted against all five incumbents because I prioritize economic bread and butter issues over the traditional culture war battles. If I wanted a party that emphasized the latter, I'd be a Republican.

In regards to the muh big tent argument, obviously, you don't want too small of a tent because that narrows the swath of possible voters. On the other hand, the two parties can't be effectively identical either. On certain issues, lines need to be drawn and everything I know about these five seem to imply they're past that line given their alliances with Republicans to implement what smells like bad policy.

Lack of bipartisnasism and extremism in politics are serious issues and I can't say I don't have problems with certain aspects of the far left (depending on how you'd define that term of course, there's a major difference between Illhan Omar who is an undisciplined anti-semite to AOC who is a bit young but well meaning to someone more generic and inoffensive like TLF) or the right to far out. There has obviously been a decline of moderates across the political spectrum as polarization intensified. But shouting on a rooftop we need more moderates pushing the same old policies isn't the solution either because moderate hero politics pushed policies that in my view (and people are welcome to disagree on this) aren't good for the middle class and in turn fueled the rise in polarization and a drop in trust of institutions.

Here is an opinion i half-agree and half-disagree. But, at least, i wholeheartdly respect your opinion, what can't be said about many other that sounded here.... Thank you!

P.S. I am pretty pro-choice myself, so - no need to offer me to become Republican. I have no place in that party (even theoretically). But - i value diversity, including (may be even foremost) - intraparty, given how few real parties exist in US, even more.. Yes, the same old "big tent". As big as possible...

[smoltchanov]

Really the only seat where throwing out the conservative in favor of the progressive was questionable was SD-35, but even then, that guy was pushing 80 years old and if there was ever a year to try to get a younger Democrat in a seat that tough, it’s this year

I would say - 3 seats. Trump won 2 in 2016, and third was very narrow Clinton with very substantial Libertarian vote.

[smoltchanov]

Really the only seat where throwing out the conservative in favor of the progressive was questionable was SD-35, but even then, that guy was pushing 80 years old and if there was ever a year to try to get a younger Democrat in a seat that tough, it’s this year

I would say - 3 seats. Trump won 2 in 2016, and third was very narrow Clinton with very substantial Libertarian vote.

The second one Trump won was only by 13 votes or something and no other Republican has come close to doing as well in that seat at any level in the Trump era. Same thing for the marginal Clinton seat. It’s clear that she was just a poor fit for these areas

May be. We will see in November. I am all out for progressives in "progressive districts", but prefer to be extremely cautious in swing ones.. And laugh heartily when they are nominated in really conservative ones.