Dunblane Massacre: 10 years on.

[afleitch]

March 13th is the 10th anniversary of the atrocious massacre at Dunblane, Scotland when crazed gun nut Thomas Hamilton showered a class of 5 and 6 year olds, in their first year at school with bullets while they were at gym killing 16 pupils and their teacher.

My blood boils as I write this. At the very same time as that shooting. I was 11 years old and also in gym in a different school. When word reached us 30 miles away an hour or so later we were hoarded into the main hall and our school gates were locked and bolted in precaution. A school, the beacon of the community, of openess and innocence was now to be regulated like a prison.

The cowardly bastard shot himself, but not before walking into another classroom of 11 year olds at the school and firing a trail of bullets into the back wall as pupils ducked and cowered under the desks. One of those pupils is a friend of a close friend of mine and we have met before. He, now 21 is embarking on a teaching career and I wish him all the best.

Handguns were banned and all gun ownership was regulated. They tore that bloodstained gym down and the community moved on. The town and indeed that school have given Britain it's No1 ranked tennis player; Andy Murray. Sometimes 10 years can feel a million miles away or only yesterday. So remember these children, and all victims of gun violence on Monday.

[Democratic Hawk]

So remember these children, and all victims of gun violence on Monday.

I will, it's a day I'll never forget. A friend's stepson was one of the survivors from Mrs Mayor's class

Dave

[Jake]

The Reichstag fire so to speak.

[??????????]

Handguns were banned and all gun ownership was regulated.

What a great response to the actions of one nut job.

So remember these children, and all victims of gun violence on Monday.

These children were the victims of a crazed nut job the gun didn't commit the violence.


Thank God I live in the best nation in the world.

[Cubby]

Handguns were banned and all gun ownership was regulated.

What a great response to the actions of one nut job.

So remember these children, and all victims of gun violence on Monday.

These children were the victims of a crazed nut job the gun didn't commit the violence.


Thank God I live in the best nation in the world.

16 People died and you use it for patriotic slogans? Thats really rotten States.

Afleitch as soon as I read your post I knew that the first reaction from my fellow Americans would be horror at guns being banned. Seems I was right. I'm glad Scotland took the safe and responsible route after this tragedy and limited access to weapons.

I remember when this happened, but I never realized that more children died at Dunblane than in the Columbine shootings. That must have been overwhelming for a country not as familiar as we are to gun violence. 

[afleitch]

16 People died and you use it for patriotic slogans? Thats really rotten States.

It is. That is not what this thead was supposed to be about; save the tubthumping for a later date.

[Serenity Now]

These children were the victims of a crazed nut job the gun didn't commit the violence.

Yeah but the gun might just have helped??*

How about we don't allow crazed nut jobs to own guns?



*OH but wait, pointing out a link between people easily being able to access guns and higher murder rates from guns is a very communist thing to do, because they are needed to protect yourself from the king of England or the Feds' black helicopters...

[Serenity Now]

16 People died and you use it for patriotic slogans? Thats really rotten States.

It is. That is not what this thead was supposed to be about; save the tubthumping for a later date.

Quite right Afleitch, it makes me sick.

[John Dibble]

Truly a tragedy. I feel for the victims. May they RIP.

Still, I am in disagreement with the handgun ban - it was an overreaction IMO. I doubt it would have stopped this guy from hurting people even if it had been present before the incident - he either would have found a way to get a gun or would have used a different weapon.

[??????????]

These children were the victims of a crazed nut job the gun didn't commit the violence.

Yeah but the gun might just have helped??*

How about we don't allow crazed nut jobs to own guns?



*OH but wait, pointing out a link between people easily being able to access guns and higher murder rates from guns is a very communist thing to do, because they are needed to protect yourself from the king of England or the Feds' black helicopters...

No, I'm not for banning guns because a crime was committed since I don't hate freedom.

[??????????]

Handguns were banned and all gun ownership was regulated.

What a great response to the actions of one nut job.

So remember these children, and all victims of gun violence on Monday.

These children were the victims of a crazed nut job the gun didn't commit the violence.


Thank God I live in the best nation in the world.

16 People died and you use it for patriotic slogans? Thats really rotten States.

Afleitch as soon as I read your post I knew that the first reaction from my fellow Americans would be horror at guns being banned. Seems I was right. I'm glad Scotland took the safe and responsible route after this tragedy and limited access to weapons.

I remember when this happened, but I never realized that more children died at Dunblane than in the Columbine shootings. That must have been overwhelming for a country not as familiar as we are to gun violence. 

Patriotic slogans? Some nut uses a gun to commit a crime and how does the nation respond? Ban all handguns? What utter trash and I'm glad to live in a country that doesn't want to punish the many for the actions of a few.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

No, I'm not for banning guns because a crime was committed since I don't hate freedom.

...but guns have never been associated with freedom over here. Most people associate handguns with organised crime and there had been calls for them to be banned for years. And after Dunblane there was a *massive* public outcry for them to be banned. And they were. That's democracy.

[??????????]

No, I'm not for banning guns because a crime was committed since I don't hate freedom.

...but guns have never been associated with freedom over here. Most people associate handguns with organised crime and there had been calls for them to be banned for years. And after Dunblane there was a *massive* public outcry for them to be banned. And they were. That's democracy.

I forgot and I apologize. I remember now that Europeans and UKers don't mind having their freedoms run over for a little safety.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

I forgot and I apologize. I remember now that Europeans and UKers don't mind having their freedoms run over for a little safety.

No, you're missing the point. Guns are not, were not and never will be, associated with freedom here. The concept of Gun Rights and so on just doesn't exist. It's a cultural difference basically.

[afleitch]

I forgot and I apologize. I remember now that Europeans and UKers don't mind having their freedoms run over for a little safety.

No, you're missing the point. Guns are not, were not and never will be, associated with freedom here. The concept of Gun Rights and so on just doesn't exist. It's a cultural difference basically.

That's correct. We don't have a 2nd Amendment here, which in America is associated with basic founding freedoms. As Al says gun ownership rights are not associated with freedom in Britain and taking them away was not associated with a 'removal' of freedoms.

[Bono]

I forgot and I apologize. I remember now that Europeans and UKers don't mind having their freedoms run over for a little safety.

No, you're missing the point. Guns are not, were not and never will be, associated with freedom here. The concept of Gun Rights and so on just doesn't exist. It's a cultural difference basically.

There was a provision in the English Bill of Rights providing for the rights of protestants to bear arms to not be infringed. I even had it on my sig for a while.

[afleitch]

I forgot and I apologize. I remember now that Europeans and UKers don't mind having their freedoms run over for a little safety.

No, you're missing the point. Guns are not, were not and never will be, associated with freedom here. The concept of Gun Rights and so on just doesn't exist. It's a cultural difference basically.

There was a provision in the English Bill of Rights providing for the rights of protestants to bear arms to not be infringed. I even had it on my sig for a while.

True: with an emphasis on Protestant! But the Bill of Rights was not a 'constitution' as such; just a statement, a bill, that like other bills can be abolished or modified.

[Bono]

I forgot and I apologize. I remember now that Europeans and UKers don't mind having their freedoms run over for a little safety.

No, you're missing the point. Guns are not, were not and never will be, associated with freedom here. The concept of Gun Rights and so on just doesn't exist. It's a cultural difference basically.

There was a provision in the English Bill of Rights providing for the rights of protestants to bear arms to not be infringed. I even had it on my sig for a while.

True: with an emphasis on Protestant! But the Bill of Rights was not a 'constitution' as such; just a statement, a bill, that like other bills can be abolished or modified.

I know. I was using it to disprove the claim that firearms posession was never culturaly linked with freedom in the Great Britain(btw, handguns are still legal in Northern ireland, so the ban wasn't really nationwide).

[Filuwaúrdjan]

There was a provision in the English Bill of Rights providing for the rights of protestants to bear arms to not be infringed. I even had it on my sig for a while.

The Bill of Rights was written in 1689. For all intents and purposes it only applied to Members of Parliament as well. And the wording was pretty... er... well you've read it... the Hon. Members certainly didn't intend for some agricultural labourer or weaver to have a gun.

And ignoring all that, there's no way you can argue that the passage has anything to do with freedom; more like sectarianism. The complaint was not that Rights had been infringed, but that some Protestants had their guns or swords or whatever taken away and that some Catholics were armed.

And it's not as though the Bill of Rights influenced culture here at all; certainly not popular culture.

[??????????]

There was a provision in the English Bill of Rights providing for the rights of protestants to bear arms to not be infringed. I even had it on my sig for a while.

The Bill of Rights was written in 1689. For all intents and purposes it only applied to Members of Parliament as well. And the wording was pretty... er... well you've read it... the Hon. Members certainly didn't intend for some agricultural labourer or weaver to have a gun.

And ignoring all that, there's no way you can argue that the passage has anything to do with freedom; more like sectarianism. The complaint was not that Rights had been infringed, but that some Protestants had their guns or swords or whatever taken away and that some Catholics were armed.

And it's not as though the Bill of Rights influenced culture here at all; certainly not popular culture.

Are you allowed to have hunting rifles or shotguns?

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Are you allowed to have hunting rifles or shotguns?

Yes; although some types (including pump action shotguns) were banned in the early '90's (around the time they first came over here IIRC). Double-barrelled shotguns are the type seen the most.

One thing to add about Dunblane; the Government was supposed to introduce a gun registry (ala Canada) after that, but has been carefully avoiding doing so for a decade now (IMO they're right to; it would be a total waste of money and the gun problem in inner city areas (Birmingham was especially notorious, but the leaders are all in jail now) these days is largely down to coverted replicas).