Lack of Conversation

[PSOL]

So I kind of have been thinking on why this board is the way it is, and I think one of the main drags is a lack of conversation with one another. Looking through most posts, conversation is actually a rarity in Atlas. Most seem to just say a statement to the crowd or say a cheesy statement, there’s actually very little discussion. I notice more conversation happening in Atlasia then the rest of the forum, and old timers and recent happenings show that that’s a dying art in a political simulation mind you.

A personal anecdote is my own experiences. While I have views that are not part of the “mainstream”, you would have thought that there would be people willing to debate with me? Wrong, just ignoring of my statement or a weak whatever statement. I recently had some amazing conversations with KaiserDave, New Frontier, Lumine, Donnerrail, and bordigasm this month on various interesting topics that all ended differently. The problem is that this is not just the exception to me, but the whole board. Very few people on this board attempt dialogue, and these same few posters. Most is just emptiness and very persistent s•••posting.

To put it simply, very few people are actually willing to have a dialogue on these types of conversations, most prefer just to give a statement to the crowd with little follow-up. Nothing surprising, right? Well, the fact that this is a forum dedicated to politics with no discussion is telling of the state of this forum. It shows that something is wrong. I’ve been to small niche forums with weaker moderation and stricter ideological lines than this one, and there’s more conversation and interaction between users. This forum, at least de facto, is open to everyone yet conversation is rare, even among people with close ideologies.

What if, stay with me now, Atlas is a microcosm of the wider world. Remember how bored the R congresspersons were during impeachment, or when the Oregon conservative state rep delegation decided to bail on voting for legislation? Perhaps I need to make this bipartisan so as to not seem biased. What about when liberals just flat out ignore the plight of homeless people, or the lack of care on explaining how and why Trump got into office? I’m not trying to say I’m right or people who think like me are right, I’ve demonstrated before that I accept and wholeheartedly admit when I’m wrong when it does occur. But in a political forum operating during the worst polarization and political crisis in this nations history for a while, the fact that conversation is rare, much less good conversation, is telling.

What are your thoughts on this? Please, I’d like to open the floor to all posters to share their thoughts.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

Quality posts require quality posters. I've long abandoned effortposting because people on your side tend to bold one sentence of the entire essay, quote it at the bottom with some low effort argument that what I said was racist/bigoted/violent/deplorable, and then slink from the debate all the time.

I have had lengthy, heated arguments and friendly debates with posters like Antonio V, Nathan, Cathcon, RealisticIdealist, and so on all matters of subject. But when one side (particularly members with Democratic Party avatars) has people like Landslide Lyndon, Badger, ProudModerate2, and many others who are more interested in shutting down rather than challenging speech.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

I'll be honest. I've browsed and lurked this site since 2016. I've noticed the same thing from a majority of posts on this website. 95% of the posts on this board are only a few sentences. This makes it very hard to have a very verbose conversation.

I'll give this website a break, because I know people outside of atlas have other things to worry about. People can't spend a disproportionate amount of time on this website. It's not like people are editing things for esteemed journals. Although most of the conversation surrounding this website is about politics, I feel that a lot of it isn't really productive.

I've made brief accounts on this website, but I think some of the worst things about the websites are a few particular users. Some of the users like to jump the bandwagon when there is an extremely controversial issue and like to troll or provoke anger. I don't like people on this forum showing their elitism to the poorly educated. I just think the elitism, whether it is a joke or not, to be in poor taste.

You know, I realized that I could do something a lot more productive than browsing this site. This site is a time-waster for people who want to be political scientists but realized it was easier to roleplay as one. I've learned hobbies and over the years managed to spend less time on this website. This website is a dead-end. I hope you manage to do something else with your life. I'm learning a foreign language, it's much better than seeing wanna-be political scientists screaming at each-other with ad hominems.

What language are you learning?

[͘]

What language are you learning?

по-русский

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

What language are you learning?

по-русский

best of luck, товарищ.
Btw we have some Russian users. Smoltonchav and kelestian are both Russian and might be able to help you.

[PSOL]

I'll be honest. I've browsed and lurked this site since 2016. I've noticed the same thing from a majority of posts on this website. 95% of the posts on this board are only a few sentences. This makes it very hard to have a very verbose conversation.

I'll give this website a break, because I know people outside of atlas have other things to worry about. People can't spend a disproportionate amount of time on this website. It's not like people are editing things for esteemed journals. Although most of the conversation surrounding this website is about politics, I feel that a lot of it isn't really productive.

I've made brief accounts on this website, but I think some of the worst things about the websites are a few particular users. Some of the users like to jump the bandwagon when there is an extremely controversial issue and like to troll or provoke anger. I don't like people on this forum showing their elitism to the poorly educated. I just think the elitism, whether it is a joke or not, to be in poor taste.

You know, I realized that I could do something a lot more productive than browsing this site. This site is a time-waster for people who want to be political scientists but realized it was easier to roleplay as one. I've learned hobbies and over the years managed to spend less time on this website. This website is a dead-end. I hope you manage to do something else with your life. I'm learning a foreign language, it's much better than seeing wanna-be political scientists screaming at each-other with ad hominems.

I mean, I love talking about politics, and while I should spend my time doing something better most often then not, Atlas has done a lot of good in having grand posts on History, philosophy, religion, and other controversial topics that I can’t access with my normal peer group. I don’t want this site to go down to the dogs and become worthless, nor conforming in the norms of today’s standard conversations online.

[Orwell]

From a personal perspective, I'm not very on policy I prefer the election analysis

[Dr. Arch]

It's difficult to engage in conversation when some of the interlocutors can't even agree on the same reality, much less the nuances, political or not, of such a reality.

While I've largely stopped effort posting for the reasons that many posters have already indicated above, I have had the opportunity to engage in multiple meaningful conversations with folks from across the political spectrum here on different topics.

One of my most memorable was with Fuzzy on PR Statehood, about a year ago, I think.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

From a personal perspective, I'm not very on policy I prefer the election analysis

And there's nothing wrong with that. This forum has plenty of quality posters (including you) who give detailed, insightful opinions on election/data/demographic/polling, etc. We are all thankful that we still have posters like you who fulfill the site's purpose. I wish the bulk of the forum was like you, honestly.
@ Everyone Else

This forum isn't a peer reviewed academic journal. People like PSOL take it wayyyyyy too seriously. Maybe some don't have lives and thus have time for such thought out posts, but I have truck tires to roll, garbage to clean, some outstanding rent to collect, and a whole host of real life, actual issues.

Maybe in the post Trump era, this forum will return to the 2013-2014 era, which was before PSOL's time but basically in line with what he's desiring. I'd welcome that as much as anyone. But it won't happen when Lyndon and ProudModerate2 are allowed to cavort around.

Look at Fuzzy's posts. They get picked apart and misconstrued all the time. You might not like his argument, but if you find technical rules that really only apply to high school debate teams in order to argue against him, than you've lost. Not only are you guys intellectually bankrupt, but personally nasty and disgusting. Someone actually made a sock account named ChairmanSanchezsTweakerBro to attack me ffs.

[PSOL]

I’m not saying that this place should become something like a pee-review journal, but there should be more conversations and understanding here.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

I’m not saying that this place should become something like a pee-review journal, but there should be more conversations and understanding here.

But how can we even have any form of understanding when one side claims a monopoly on facts and then refuses to engage anyone unless they accept their premise outright. It's unfair.

Thankfully, we have people like Jacobin around who can at least set a positive example. I have had plenty of good dialogue with him over the last few years. In fact, I've seen some inferior minds and Democratic Party hacks attack him for being "defeatist" because he dares to interact with blue avatars in a way that isn't snarky swipes and potshots.

[PSOL]

I’m not saying that this place should become something like a pee-review journal, but there should be more conversations and understanding here.

But how can we even have any form of understanding when one side claims a monopoly on facts and then refuses to engage anyone unless they accept their premise outright. It's unfair.

Thankfully, we have people like Jacobin around who can at least set a positive example. I have had plenty of good dialogue with him over the last few years. In fact, I've seen some inferior minds and Democratic Party hacks attack him for being "defeatist" because he dares to interact with blue avatars in a way that isn't snarky swipes and potshots.

In a way, you’re right on the nail. Most posters here, standard R or D, are unable to admit when they are wrong. People like Jacobin, NC Yankee, Arch, and a few others are sadly a minority of people actually able to hold a conversation here. Most posters here just react with One-time statements you the crowd, one liners, trolling, personal insults, or conduct themselves in bad faith.

I’m not saying that there’s especially something wrong with some of the above, but the scarcity of dialogue on a website about politics is kind of sad.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

I used to do more effort-posting and am not averse to doing so again, but I often didn’t find folks too willing to engage in a good-faith, serious conversation, so I kinda decided it was a waste of time.  I don’t disagree with what you’re saying

However, it goes both ways too.  Like, if I make an effort-post about why I oppose legalizing smokable marijuana products for even medical use, I’d want to know the response won’t just be “DaTz BeCaUsE u R a RaCiSt WhItE wHo H8s TeH PoOrz “  I mean, if that’s the response then why bother, you know?  Like, I agree with you, but it really is a forum community problem rather than an ideological or partisan one.

[cris01us]

You raise good and very valid points in your overall assessment.  The art of subtlety and nuance as they apply to political discourse is a dying art.  I think to many people want to come over the top rope with a gotcha comment, and win the argument rather than have the conversation and tease out all the interplay between issues, policies, and proposals.  I know I can be quite guilty of this from time to time, and I aim to be better.  Secondly it might be important to come to the table with a more well-rounded understanding of basic political viewpoints and history.  I’m not saying one needs to get a degree in Poly-Sci or read all the Federalist and Anti-Federalist papers for instance to obtain this.  However, a cursory knowledge of political history, platforms, and driving forces behind parties and ideas can go a ways into making a discussion much more productive.

I’m glad I found your post.  I hope to find more like these from more people in the future.     

[Former President tack50]

Looking at my recent history it seems to be a mix of effort posting and one liners. Tbh I like doing effort posts, but they need to be on something you are interested in I guess.

Or do you mean in the Forum Community board in particular? Because I do not think this board is really meant for deep political debates?

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

I’m not saying that this place should become something like a pee-review journal, but there should be more conversations and understanding here.

The political tribal mentality got so bad I wouldn't hope for an improvement.

Most of my in-depth discussions nowadays are being done via PM.

[💥💥 brandon bro (he/him/his)]

I’m not saying that this place should become something like a pee-review journal

Good, that sounds really gross.

[KaiserDave]

Well I must first say I'm flattered PSOL, which conversation was it?

Secondly, you do have a point. Although I do enjoy some of Atlas's tropes when discussing election analysis.

I can't say I'm an articulate poster all the type on those boards. Or on others to be completely honest, I've had my share of snarky one liners.

[Mr. Reactionary]

Fine people on both sides

Must be economic anxiety

Orange man bad

[PSOL]

I’m not saying that this place should become something like a pee-review journal, but there should be more conversations and understanding here.

The political tribal mentality got so bad I wouldn't hope for an improvement.

Most of my in-depth discussions nowadays are being done via PM.

That sounds really f•••ing bad, s•••. Tell us, we’re there warning signs of what was to come before 2015/6?

[Gracile]

Who needs effort posts when you can get a ton of recommends from a witty one-liner?

[Virginiá]

You know, I realized that I could do something a lot more productive than browsing this site. This site is a time-waster for people who want to be political scientists but realized it was easier to roleplay as one. I've learned hobbies and over the years managed to spend less time on this website. This website is a dead-end. I hope you manage to do something else with your life. I'm learning a foreign language, it's much better than seeing wanna-be political scientists screaming at each-other with ad hominems.

Many, maybe even most, of the users here are students (HS, college, post-grad, etc) or were when they joined. For these people, it's just a place to discuss elections and politics while growing up. Some users here either joined as politicians or went on to become them, and at least one was/is an analyst for a respected election forecasting website.

I get the whole jaded "lol internet forum" sentiment, but jokes and insults aside, a lot of people from this forum have been successful in their pursuits or will be. So not sure what else is expected here.

[Mr. Reactionary]

You know, I realized that I could do something a lot more productive than browsing this site. This site is a time-waster for people who want to be political scientists but realized it was easier to roleplay as one. I've learned hobbies and over the years managed to spend less time on this website. This website is a dead-end. I hope you manage to do something else with your life. I'm learning a foreign language, it's much better than seeing wanna-be political scientists screaming at each-other with ad hominems.

Many, maybe even most, of the users here are students (HS, college, post-grad, etc) or were when they joined. For these people, it's just a place to discuss elections and politics while growing up. Some users here either joined as politicians or went on to become them, and at least one was/is an analyst for a respected election forecasting website.

I get the whole jaded "lol internet forum" sentiment, but jokes and insults aside, a lot of people from this forum have been successful in their pursuits or will be. So not sure what else is expected here.

I'll be honest, the main reason I originally joined was because this forum used to only be available to members on election night and 10 years ago it was hard to find a centralized website compiling election result updates for all of the obscure races in real time with maps. Any chance we can go members only this November?

[Mr. Reactionary]

I’m not saying that this place should become something like a pee-review journal, but there should be more conversations and understanding here.

The political tribal mentality got so bad I wouldn't hope for an improvement.

Most of my in-depth discussions nowadays are being done via PM.

That sounds really f•••ing bad, s•••. Tell us, we’re there warning signs of what was to come before 2015/6?

Honestly, 2015 was a good year for Atlas discussion in that a lot of the toxic hacks took their schitposting offsite and for a time there was less nastiness and imbecilic 1 sentence posts. Immediately before that summer there were what seemed to be a dozen or so Atlas Democrat "institutions" on here engaging in a prolonged spam campaign where they all pretended to be Trump supporters and would just post page after page of purposefully misspelled caveman parody posts about how they am ironic trump supporter because they am have big brains and Trump am good Trump Trump Trump and then empty quote each other to derail any discussion about non-Trump Republicans. It was extremely obnoxious but it was largely the Update crowd so a lot of them moved over to AAD. They banned me over there after a month but I recall there being a thread the first month that was like 5 pages of nothing but empty quotes of the word "TRUMP". Probably the earliest example of TDS although at the time they were hardcore pushing him specifically to "help Hillary win". Maybe we can get lucky and have another mass exodus of one-lining hacks soon.

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

Maybe in the post Trump era, this forum will return to the 2013-2014 era, which was before PSOL's time but basically in line with what he's desiring. I'd welcome that as much as anyone. But it won't happen when Lyndon and ProudModerate2 are allowed to cavort around.

I might be nitpicking here, but, 2013-14?  Really?  I always had that exact date as the low point for Atlas.  That was the time of opebo's banning, Inksgate, Update spiraling out of control and into  other forums, and clique culture being at an all-time high here.  The Atlas left fought with each other all the time, usually over stupid sh!t and personality rather than honest political/ideological differences.

(Perhaps fittingly, I also mark that as the point when US politics took the turn for the worst; the online left went fully into woke mode and the right did Gamergate. )