China to enact Article 23 National Security Law in Hong Kong (user search)
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  China to enact Article 23 National Security Law in Hong Kong (search mode)
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Author Topic: China to enact Article 23 National Security Law in Hong Kong  (Read 2896 times)
President Punxsutawney Phil
TimTurner
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« on: May 22, 2020, 05:37:05 AM »

I don't disagree in principle Santander, but It is already being re-eclipsed by Shanghai, isn't it? In what Dashushu was responding to specifically - the Allegation that HK integration into China means somehow supporting "higher rents", it is pretty obvious that the opposite is the case. I mean some of the protesters even live in Shenzhen for crying out loud. 1C2S - almost as unfettered neoliberalism as one can get - is responsible for the grotesque situation where a very small section of City has almost complete monopolistic control over it's Housing and ensures that usual mechanisms to increase supply cannot be utilized, because - unlike in the mainland - it has effective control over the levers of Government as well, and ensures Zoning laws remain extremely restrictive. And Pan-Democrats are perfectly fine with this arrangement, because they need to protect the narrative that the only reason for high rents are the evil mainlanders that come to live in HK. When in fact freer mobility between Mainland China and HK would force HK property owners to keep their prices in tack with those on the Mainland - the end to Border Controls would also make commuting into the City far easier. Integration would mean a very visible and clear improvement on one of the main underlying Issues that led to the protests in the first place. 

Also on the point that comparing these Laws to their equivanents in Western Countries is invalid because they are far more overreaching - and you are not wrong, they are, actually to the point that I am also uncomfortable with them. But ultimately it, the fact that it had to come to this is down single-handedly to the responsibility of the Pan-Democrats. Once again these people, out of pure recalcitrance, refuse any compromise with the Mainland, allowing a bad situation to deteriorate out of some sort of accelerationist Idea that the longer things are bad in Hong Kong the more support they are going to get, and then are full surprised pikachu face when they end up shafting themselves - and Hong Kong - worse for it.

Same thing happened with the Chief Executive election, for instance. The Pan-Democrats had the option of the universal sufferage election with a nomination committee as accepted by the Central Government - that while still controlled by the pro-peking camp would have still effectively forced the nomination of a moderate pro-peking politican with popular appeal - or they could own the Chinese nats in the LegCo epic style and keep the current system where people have no say what so ever and that will always ensure the election of a pro-peking hardliner. They chose the latter obviously.

And same here. Everyone knew that Hong Kong needed some form of security law, like every other jurisdiction in the World. They could have worked with Beijing to implement the relatively moderate 2003 draft which had Hong kong input and was mostly in line with those of stricter democtratic countries like France or South Korea. But no, they blocked everything. So the Central Government said ok, if implementing the offences into HK law is too much, then there must at least be a way to try those offenders in China. But everyone got angry, the City was burned, and we know the rest. And eventually Beijing ran out of patience and bypassed hong kong altogether and is now going to railroad it's preferred draft which is going to be far more authoritarian than the 2003 Draft, and most likely the de facto end to One Country Two Systems.

Hong Kong has been destroyed by the very people who claim to be fighting for her. Who, of course can and will always just emigrate - but that is option that most in Hong Kong don't have. They have been sold down the river for some sweet USA university scholarships for Joshua Wong and his friends, and will be the real ones facing the consequences of this.
I guess it is only fitting that the tradegy of Hong Kong is heavily contributed to by well-intentioned but ultimately inept and naive people who do not really understand the art of compromising for tactical reasons.
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President Punxsutawney Phil
TimTurner
Atlas Politician
Atlas Legend
*****
Posts: 41,481
United States


« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2020, 06:37:40 AM »


Same thing happened with the Chief Executive election, for instance. The Pan-Democrats had the option of the universal sufferage election with a nomination committee as accepted by the Central Government - that while still controlled by the pro-peking camp would have still effectively forced the nomination of a moderate pro-peking politican with popular appeal - or they could own the Chinese nats in the LegCo epic style and keep the current system where people have no say what so ever and that will always ensure the election of a pro-peking hardliner. They chose the latter obviously.


I made the point before that the HK Pan-Democrat position is similar to the Okinawa anti-base opposition.  They both reject compromises that will move meaningfully toward their position for fear that the compromise will diffuse the issue and move them further away their ideal solution which is never in the cards anyway.  Both rather have the issue than any real meaning progress toward their goals.

The Okinawa base stalemate reminds me a lot of the HK Chief Execute Election stalemate. 

Current the HK Chief Executive is elected by an electoral college whose selection is by the PRC government.  The Democratic and Localist blocs demand the selection of the HK  Chief Execute is based on direct election by the HK population.  PRC says "Yes we can agree to that  but we get to vet the candidates ahead of time."  The Democratic and Localist blocs reject this proposal even as a interim  solution because they fear that if this solution is implemented the population support for their ideal solution would dissipate.     

The USA Futenma base in Okinawa is in Naha and right in the middle of a heavily populated area which is the cause of many problems and incidents. 


The anti-base activist bloc wants the USA completely out of Okinawa.  The government of Japan and USA are offering to move the base to a remote location with no inhabitants.  The anti-base bloc reject this proposal even as an interim  solution because they fear that if this solution is implemented the population support for their ideal solution would dissipate.   


That is an apt comparison and one I never really thought of before, but it works.
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