2020 Census and Redistricting Thread: California

[SevenEleven]

The latter map better represents COI, so that one. Long Beach and Huntington Beach do not belong in the same district. There's simply no justification. And "being Asian" is not a valid COI,



Here is a map with 3 heavily Asian districts that still respects COI.

[I’m not Stu]

Question: Which OC alignment do people think is better? The former preserves cross-county COI's, the latter focuses on the county line between OC and LA. The former has a Asian Belt seat, the latter has to drop some of the belt in not just LA to take in Huntington Beach. I can vouch that Long Beach and Huntington do share some similarities and a pairing makes sense, even though their partisanship differs. But it's not a perfect grouping.

Long Beach shouldn't be in the Garden Grove district because it looks ugly and OC residents don't really like LA County.

[Oryxslayer]

There's simply no justification. And "being Asian" is not a valid COI,

Here is a map with 3 heavily Asian districts that still respects COI.

I mean this map carves up the San Gabriel communities like they are butter, without much care for the municipal lines. It also probably would produce headaches for the Hispanic seats in that reason. Therefore, it only works as a demonstration map. However, I get what you are saying.

It should be remembered though that the commission has a hard on for ethnic communities (partially because of it's guidelines) and shared ethnicity will decide most LA districts.

[Oryxslayer]

Question: Which OC alignment do people think is better? The former preserves cross-county COI's, the latter focuses on the county line between OC and LA. The former has a Asian Belt seat, the latter has to drop some of the belt in not just LA to take in Huntington Beach. I can vouch that Long Beach and Huntington do share some similarities and a pairing makes sense, even though their partisanship differs. But it's not a perfect grouping.

Long Beach shouldn't be in the Garden Grove district because it looks ugly and OC residents don't really like LA County.

Neither district paired LA and GG.... If anything, both cases trying to prevent the ethnic carve up by putting whites with whites, Asians with Asians, Hispanics with Hispanic, etc. I don't think anyone wants the CA47 arm to return, and you should know this since you have made limitless posts on it.

[I’m not Stu]

When I group the islands, it says it isn't contiguous. What should I do here?

[Starry Eyed Jagaloon]

When I group the islands, it says it isn't contiguous. What should I do here?

Catalina with Long Beach, the others with Ventura.

[SevenEleven]

There's simply no justification. And "being Asian" is not a valid COI,

Here is a map with 3 heavily Asian districts that still respects COI.

I mean this map carves up the San Gabriel communities like they are butter, without much care for the municipal lines. It also probably would produce headaches for the Hispanic seats in that reason. Therefore, it only works as a demonstration map. However, I get what you are saying.

The commission is not going to care much about municipal lines, especially in a major metropolitan area. The Hispanic seats worked out perfect, you get to connect East LA and downtown, and the gate way cities cluster together perfectly.

What do you think should be done with the San Gabriel Valley? I don't think anything is much worse than what the current map did.

It should be remembered though that the commission has a hard on for ethnic communities (partially because of it's guidelines) and shared ethnicity will decide most LA districts.

While true, respect for ethnic communities shouldn't really equate to treating Chinese, Indian, and Vietnamese as a singular group.

[I’m not Stu]

When I group the islands, it says it isn't contiguous. What should I do here?

Catalina with Long Beach, the others with Ventura.

Good idea. Why is that? I don't know much about the islands.

[Starry Eyed Jagaloon]

When I group the islands, it says it isn't contiguous. What should I do here?

Catalina with Long Beach, the others with Ventura.

Good idea. Why is that? I don't know much about the islands.

Where you can take ferries to them from. You can also lump the northwestern islands in with Santa Barbara, but Catalina only makes sense attached to Long Beach or maaybe San Pedro.

[I’m not Stu]

When I group the islands, it says it isn't contiguous. What should I do here?

Catalina with Long Beach, the others with Ventura.

Good idea. Why is that? I don't know much about the islands.

Where you can take ferries to them from. You can also lump the northwestern islands in with Santa Barbara, but Catalina only makes sense attached to Long Beach or maaybe San Pedro.

Also, there are Newport Beach and Dana Point ferries to Catalina Island.

[Oryxslayer]

The commission is not going to care much about municipal lines, especially in a major metropolitan area.

I'm sorry, but this is perhaps one of the most ill-informed sentences I have ever read about redistricting. If you actually believe this statement then let me state some obvious facts.

Community, city, or neighborhood lines are perhaps the most well known COIs any citizen ever comes in contact with. Even if a person is totally disconnected and doesn't care about govt they know where they bought/rented their home or where they were raised. These community lines are the building blocks of the commission. It is up to the commission to pair said communities.

There are only really ever two times when the commission breaks this rule of thumb. 1 - population numbers sometimes gives citizens the middle finger. 2 - when ethnic communities are more powerful than municipal lines, such as the Hispanic v White relationship in the Central Valley or the AA community in West La county, and those assume precedence. The most obvious community cuts are in Fresno and Bakersfield, both cases where the Hispanics got their own seat.

In such a populous county with different interests like LA it is MOST CRITICAL community lines are preserved. Here's some evidence:



Look how often the Black (municipal lines) and Red (CDs) coincide. And when they don't it is mostly because the district is inside the massive LA City where neighborhoods have more predominance or are carving across empty precincts.

[SevenEleven]

The commission is not going to care much about municipal lines, especially in a major metropolitan area.

I'm sorry, but this is perhaps one of the most ill-informed sentences I have ever read about redistricting. If you actually believe this statement then let me state some obvious facts.

Community, city, or neighborhood lines are perhaps the most well known COIs any citizen ever comes in contact with. Even if a person is totally disconnected and doesn't care about govt they know where they bought/rented their home or where they were raised. These community lines are the building blocks of the commission. It is up to the commission to pair said communities.

There are only really ever two times when the commission breaks this rule of thumb. 1 - population sometimes gives citizens the middle finger. 2 - when ethnic communities are more powerful than municipal lines, such as the Hispanic v White relationship in the Central Valley or the AA community in West La county, and those assume precedence. The most obvious community cuts are in Fresno and Bakersfield, both cases where the Hispanics got their own seat.

In such a populous county with different interests like LA it is MOST CRITICAL community lines are preserved. Here's some evidence:

Look how often the Black (municipal lines) and Red (CDs) coincide. And when they don't it is mostly because the district is inside the massive LA City where neighborhoods have more predominance or are carving across empty precincts.

You misunderstand me, or perhaps I wasn't very clear. The commission is not going to rank municipal lines over more important criteria. For example, there is absolutely nothing wrong with splitting Anaheim Hills from the rest of Anaheim, or even splitting the white section of Santa Ana off (both of which I did). When I have computer access I can show you how my map follows municipal lines really well.
Ultimately, you're going to have to make some cuts, which are easier to do the larger the city is. There was no reason for the commission to split Torrance, for example.

[Oryxslayer]

The commission is not going to care much about municipal lines, especially in a major metropolitan area.

I'm sorry, but this is perhaps one of the most ill-informed sentences I have ever read about redistricting. If you actually believe this statement then let me state some obvious facts.

Community, city, or neighborhood lines are perhaps the most well known COIs any citizen ever comes in contact with. Even if a person is totally disconnected and doesn't care about govt they know where they bought/rented their home or where they were raised. These community lines are the building blocks of the commission. It is up to the commission to pair said communities.

There are only really ever two times when the commission breaks this rule of thumb. 1 - population sometimes gives citizens the middle finger. 2 - when ethnic communities are more powerful than municipal lines, such as the Hispanic v White relationship in the Central Valley or the AA community in West La county, and those assume precedence. The most obvious community cuts are in Fresno and Bakersfield, both cases where the Hispanics got their own seat.

In such a populous county with different interests like LA it is MOST CRITICAL community lines are preserved. Here's some evidence:

Look how often the Black (municipal lines) and Red (CDs) coincide. And when they don't it is mostly because the district is inside the massive LA City where neighborhoods have more predominance or are carving across empty precincts.

You misunderstand me, or perhaps I wasn't very clear. The commission is not going to rank municipal lines over more important criteria. For example, there is absolutely nothing wrong with splitting Anaheim Hills from the rest of Anaheim, or even splitting the white section of Santa Ana off (both of which I did). When I have computer access I can show you how my map follows municipal lines really well.
Ultimately, you're going to have to make some cuts, which are easier to do the larger the city is. There was no reason for the commission to split Torrance, for example.

Yeah, you weren't very clear, sorry about that. I think we agree here. Keep to the building blocks unless there are other more overriding factors, in which case it might be best to treat it as 2+ blocks like in Anaheim. That's a community which is divided in way more ways than it's politics. The best example of this is not in CA, but in MS. There the court carved up both Madison and Hinds between the wealthy white suburbs and the AA's because the two had clear divergent interests. This is despite the fact that partisanship and overall district demographics wouldn't have been affected by leaving both counties whole.

Also...there's a white part of Santa Ana

[SevenEleven]

The commission is not going to care much about municipal lines, especially in a major metropolitan area.

I'm sorry, but this is perhaps one of the most ill-informed sentences I have ever read about redistricting. If you actually believe this statement then let me state some obvious facts.

Community, city, or neighborhood lines are perhaps the most well known COIs any citizen ever comes in contact with. Even if a person is totally disconnected and doesn't care about govt they know where they bought/rented their home or where they were raised. These community lines are the building blocks of the commission. It is up to the commission to pair said communities.

There are only really ever two times when the commission breaks this rule of thumb. 1 - population sometimes gives citizens the middle finger. 2 - when ethnic communities are more powerful than municipal lines, such as the Hispanic v White relationship in the Central Valley or the AA community in West La county, and those assume precedence. The most obvious community cuts are in Fresno and Bakersfield, both cases where the Hispanics got their own seat.

In such a populous county with different interests like LA it is MOST CRITICAL community lines are preserved. Here's some evidence:

Look how often the Black (municipal lines) and Red (CDs) coincide. And when they don't it is mostly because the district is inside the massive LA City where neighborhoods have more predominance or are carving across empty precincts.

You misunderstand me, or perhaps I wasn't very clear. The commission is not going to rank municipal lines over more important criteria. For example, there is absolutely nothing wrong with splitting Anaheim Hills from the rest of Anaheim, or even splitting the white section of Santa Ana off (both of which I did). When I have computer access I can show you how my map follows municipal lines really well.
Ultimately, you're going to have to make some cuts, which are easier to do the larger the city is. There was no reason for the commission to split Torrance, for example.

Yeah, you weren't very clear, sorry about that. I think we agree here. Keep to the building blocks unless there are other more overriding factors, in which case it might be best to treat it as 2+ blocks like in Anaheim. That's a community which is divided in way more ways than it's politics. The best example of this is not in CA, but in MS. There the court carved up both Madison and Hinds between the wealthy white suburbs and the AA's because the two had clear divergent interests. This is despite the fact that partisanship and overall district demographics wouldn't have been affected by leaving both counties whole.

Also...there's a white part of Santa Ana

The very southern part has a lot of whites and Asians.  You can see it on my map; the commission actually did the same thing last time, as that section of Santa Ana is in Ca-48 (the horizontal lines that cuts back at Irvine)

[I’m not Stu]

Here's my first map of OC (I only did OC so far). NO LA/OC county splits here. CA-42 is incomplete (it will be centered in Corona). Where should I go from here?

[SevenEleven]

I've begun an Assembly map. Tell me why it's garb.

[I’m not Stu]

I've begun an Assembly map. Tell me why it's garb.

I don’t see Catalina Island on the map (LA County is otherwise complete). Where should I go with CA-42 on my map?

[SevenEleven]

I've begun an Assembly map. Tell me why it's garb.

I don’t see Catalina Island on the map (LA County is otherwise complete). Where should I go with CA-42 on my map?

Corona and Norco

[I’m not Stu]

I've begun an Assembly map. Tell me why it's garb.

I don’t see Catalina Island on the map (LA County is otherwise complete). Where should I go with CA-42 on my map?

Corona and Norco

Obviously, but where other than Corona and Norco should I go with it?

[SevenEleven]

I've begun an Assembly map. Tell me why it's garb.

I don’t see Catalina Island on the map (LA County is otherwise complete). Where should I go with CA-42 on my map?

Corona and Norco

Obviously, but where other than Corona and Norco should I go with it?

Lake Elsinore.

I'd try to get San Diego County done first, though.

[I’m not Stu]

I did Lake Elsinore. Where should I start in San Diego County?

[SevenEleven]

I did Lake Elsinore. Where should I start in San Diego County?

Chula Vista

[Sol]

I did Lake Elsinore. Where should I start in San Diego County?

Why not decide for yourself? There is is a lot of information on the net, not to mention in the archives of the forum. The 2010 redistricting threads are a good resource.

[SevenEleven]

Texas is actually a better way to see the map like this
You can draw your individual metro areas and figure out what you want there then draw the rest of the rural districts connecting the metros. California is a hard state for a beginer along with Florida due to basically most of the state being urbanized. Texas lets you divide the state up into mini areas to work with first.

That's definitely true, although California isn't the hardest. I always start with Los Angeles and Orange Counties, because it's a huge metro area with some VRA seats you have to do but a lot of ways to play around with the borders. Then I do the Bay Area, which is pretty easy because it's broken down into different counties and sort of draws itself given the barrier the bay provides. Then I fill in everything else.

Anyway, I adjusted my CA map in three ways. I dropped a LA/Ventura split and moved things around, dividing Ventura County into three natural areas (Oxnard Plain, Thousand Oaks/Simi Valley, and Santa Clara River Valley). I made a Tahoe/Gold Country seat which cleans up Sacramento a bit. Finally, I attached Pittsburgh/Antioch, Tracy, and Modesto to avoid splitting the Stockton urban area. Pretty happy with how it looks now, although I always appreciate criticism:

Is this map allowed because of the Supreme Court's recent VRA rulings? Central Valley looks like a MALDEF suit waiting to happen.

[Starry Eyed Jagaloon]

Texas is actually a better way to see the map like this
You can draw your individual metro areas and figure out what you want there then draw the rest of the rural districts connecting the metros. California is a hard state for a beginer along with Florida due to basically most of the state being urbanized. Texas lets you divide the state up into mini areas to work with first.

That's definitely true, although California isn't the hardest. I always start with Los Angeles and Orange Counties, because it's a huge metro area with some VRA seats you have to do but a lot of ways to play around with the borders. Then I do the Bay Area, which is pretty easy because it's broken down into different counties and sort of draws itself given the barrier the bay provides. Then I fill in everything else.

Anyway, I adjusted my CA map in three ways. I dropped a LA/Ventura split and moved things around, dividing Ventura County into three natural areas (Oxnard Plain, Thousand Oaks/Simi Valley, and Santa Clara River Valley). I made a Tahoe/Gold Country seat which cleans up Sacramento a bit. Finally, I attached Pittsburgh/Antioch, Tracy, and Modesto to avoid splitting the Stockton urban area. Pretty happy with how it looks now, although I always appreciate criticism:

Is this map allowed because of the Supreme Court's recent VRA rulings? Central Valley looks like a MALDEF suit waiting to happen.

I'm not entirely sure. Is there a certain Latino threshold that needs to be hit for these seats?