House districts with illegal racial gerrymanders

[I’m not Stu]

There are many gerrymandered districts, but are there currently any that violate anti-racial gerrymandering laws?

[Mr.Phips]

There are many gerrymandered districts, but are there currently any that violate anti-racial gerrymandering laws?

I can think of three right now:  LA-02, AL-07, and SC-06.  All three districts needlessly pack African American voters into one district to keep the them from being able to elect a representative of their choice in at least one neighboring district.  All three of these states could easily have a second district where African Americans could elect a representative of their choice.

[lfromnj]

There are many gerrymandered districts, but are there currently any that violate anti-racial gerrymandering laws?

I can think of three right now:  LA-02, AL-07, and SC-06.  All three districts needlessly pack African American voters into one district to keep the them from being able to elect a representative of their choice in at least one neighboring district.  All three of these states could easily have a second district where African Americans could elect a representative of their choice.

LA02 IIRC it was all but impossible to draw a 2nd black seat in 2010 due to Katrina,
AL07 sure it makes sense to have one black belt seat based in Montgomery and the black belt and then one Birmingham seat, having 2 black seats with an arm to mobile is just as absurd as the current seat.

SC- Clyburn wanted a super safe black seat too and he asked the GOP for a 6-1(disgusting and should be primaried and I laugh at the fact Democrats wanted him) Its true the GOP would have done 6-1 anyway but any sane Democrat should atleast put up the appearance of a 5-2.

[Mr.Phips]

There are many gerrymandered districts, but are there currently any that violate anti-racial gerrymandering laws?

I can think of three right now:  LA-02, AL-07, and SC-06.  All three districts needlessly pack African American voters into one district to keep the them from being able to elect a representative of their choice in at least one neighboring district.  All three of these states could easily have a second district where African Americans could elect a representative of their choice.

LA02 IIRC it was all but impossible to draw a 2nd black seat in 2010 due to Katrina,
AL07 sure it makes sense to have one black belt seat based in Montgomery and the black belt and then one Birmingham seat, having 2 black seats with an arm to mobile is just as absurd as the current seat.

SC- Clyburn wanted a super safe black seat too and he asked the GOP for a 6-1(disgusting and should be primaried and I laugh at the fact Democrats wanted him) Its true the GOP would have done 6-1 anyway but any sane Democrat should atleast put up the appearance of a 5-2.

I had actually thought that Clyburn was pushing for a second black opportunity district?

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

No such districts exist as of right now. Unideal=/=illegal.

[Mr.Phips]

No such districts exist as of right now. Unideal=/=illegal.

It could be argued that all three districts violate Section 2 of the VRA by limiting their opportunities to elect representatives of their choice.  In all three districts, a different line drawing could allow African Americans to elect additional representatives of their choice.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

No such districts exist as of right now. Unideal=/=illegal.

It could be argued that all three districts violate Section 2 of the VRA by limiting their opportunities to elect representatives of their choice.  In all three districts, a different line drawing could allow African Americans to elect additional representatives of their choice.

It is only illegal if the number of districts in question have not withstood legal challenges. Sure, a map with just one black seat in SC is not ideal and a map with 2 could be made. But just because 2 is legal and gives the blacks of South Carolina more representation doesn't mean 1 isn't legal. 0 black seats is what would be illegal.

[I’m not Stu]

I can't imagine Clyburn wanting a gerrymandered district that would disenfranchise black voters. I would think he was pushing for a second VRA (or at least Democratic) district. Are LA-02, AL-07, and SC-06 illegal, or just bad but not quite illegal?

[lfromnj]

There are many gerrymandered districts, but are there currently any that violate anti-racial gerrymandering laws?

I can think of three right now:  LA-02, AL-07, and SC-06.  All three districts needlessly pack African American voters into one district to keep the them from being able to elect a representative of their choice in at least one neighboring district.  All three of these states could easily have a second district where African Americans could elect a representative of their choice.

LA02 IIRC it was all but impossible to draw a 2nd black seat in 2010 due to Katrina,
AL07 sure it makes sense to have one black belt seat based in Montgomery and the black belt and then one Birmingham seat, having 2 black seats with an arm to mobile is just as absurd as the current seat.

SC- Clyburn wanted a super safe black seat too and he asked the GOP for a 6-1(disgusting and should be primaried and I laugh at the fact Democrats wanted him) Its true the GOP would have done 6-1 anyway but any sane Democrat should atleast put up the appearance of a 5-2.

I had actually thought that Clyburn was pushing for a second black opportunity district?

https://talkelections.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=130462.msg2903899#msg2903899

Was reading this thread, the link is dead unfortunately

[lfromnj]

Ideally SC really shouldn't have any VRA seats, it should rather have 3 competitive seats, 1 based in Charleston, one in Columbia and one in the black belt, sadly neither party would ever want that because the GOP would risk seats and Clyburn would be unhappy with anything but a Super Safe seat. If a democrat is elected all 3 except maybe the Charleston seat would likely have had the candidate of the black communities choice.(see MS state senate, there were 2 Leaning districts but Democrats just sued for one Safe D district and one Safe R district instead of actually trying)

[Mr.Phips]

There are many gerrymandered districts, but are there currently any that violate anti-racial gerrymandering laws?

I can think of three right now:  LA-02, AL-07, and SC-06.  All three districts needlessly pack African American voters into one district to keep the them from being able to elect a representative of their choice in at least one neighboring district.  All three of these states could easily have a second district where African Americans could elect a representative of their choice.

LA02 IIRC it was all but impossible to draw a 2nd black seat in 2010 due to Katrina,
AL07 sure it makes sense to have one black belt seat based in Montgomery and the black belt and then one Birmingham seat, having 2 black seats with an arm to mobile is just as absurd as the current seat.

SC- Clyburn wanted a super safe black seat too and he asked the GOP for a 6-1(disgusting and should be primaried and I laugh at the fact Democrats wanted him) Its true the GOP would have done 6-1 anyway but any sane Democrat should atleast put up the appearance of a 5-2.

I had actually thought that Clyburn was pushing for a second black opportunity district?

https://talkelections.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=130462.msg2903899#msg2903899

Was reading this thread, the link is dead unfortunately

Clyburn is a fool.

[I’m not Stu]

Do LA-02, SC-06, and AL-07 violate Section 2?

[lfromnj]

Depends who's in the court, the Obama DOJ didn't sue because they felt SCOTUS wouldn't strike them down.

[Gass3268]

Do LA-02, SC-06, and AL-07 violate Section 2?

In the fullest and broadest interpretation of the law, yes. You could also argue the same with MS-02.

[Mike Thick]

There are some in TX that would be illegal if not for the ridiculous standard Abbott v. Perez set for striking down maps

[lfromnj]

There are some in TX that would be illegal if not for the ridiculous standard Abbott v. Perez set for striking down maps

By the Gingles Test, the Fajitas themselves shouldn't be there and there should be a 95% Hispanic district in Hidalgo. The main underrepresented group in Texas rn is white liberals in Austin.

And texas 23 is a good idea(in a vaccum) its absurd that a district should always have to be completely safe for a minority especially in a region where perhaps only 60-65% of Hispanics vote Democrat.  Anyway a fair map rn wou ld have 2 RGV seats, 1 El paso, 1 swing RGV seat, 2 San Antonio with being slightly swingish. However 3-4 in Dallas and 3-4 in Houston along with 2 in Austin.

[EastAnglianLefty]

There are many gerrymandered districts, but are there currently any that violate anti-racial gerrymandering laws?

I can think of three right now:  LA-02, AL-07, and SC-06.  All three districts needlessly pack African American voters into one district to keep the them from being able to elect a representative of their choice in at least one neighboring district.  All three of these states could easily have a second district where African Americans could elect a representative of their choice.

LA02 IIRC it was all but impossible to draw a 2nd black seat in 2010 due to Katrina,
AL07 sure it makes sense to have one black belt seat based in Montgomery and the black belt and then one Birmingham seat, having 2 black seats with an arm to mobile is just as absurd as the current seat.

This is conflating two separate things. It wasn't possible to draw 2 seats with a black majority in Louisiana, it was perfectly possible to draw 1 seat with a black majority and another where blacks would likely have been able to elect the candidate of their choice.

I'd also point out that AL-07 already gets within about 40 miles of Mobile. Sticking an arm out to grab it isn't absurd unless you think the VRA as a whole is absurd.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

There are many gerrymandered districts, but are there currently any that violate anti-racial gerrymandering laws?

I can think of three right now:  LA-02, AL-07, and SC-06.  All three districts needlessly pack African American voters into one district to keep the them from being able to elect a representative of their choice in at least one neighboring district.  All three of these states could easily have a second district where African Americans could elect a representative of their choice.

LA02 IIRC it was all but impossible to draw a 2nd black seat in 2010 due to Katrina,
AL07 sure it makes sense to have one black belt seat based in Montgomery and the black belt and then one Birmingham seat, having 2 black seats with an arm to mobile is just as absurd as the current seat.

This is conflating two separate things. It wasn't possible to draw 2 seats with a black majority in Louisiana, it was perfectly possible to draw 1 seat with a black majority and another where blacks would likely have been able to elect the candidate of their choice.

I'd also point out that AL-07 already gets within about 40 miles of Mobile. Sticking an arm out to grab it isn't absurd unless you think the VRA as a whole is absurd.

While I find it disgusting to rely on water contiguity to link the white Mobile CD after the black areas are pulled into the AA CD, something like this
https://davesredistricting.org/join/c4ca1770-6166-4486-a258-1958e35d0913
is perfectly acceptable.

[EastAnglianLefty]

There are many gerrymandered districts, but are there currently any that violate anti-racial gerrymandering laws?

I can think of three right now:  LA-02, AL-07, and SC-06.  All three districts needlessly pack African American voters into one district to keep the them from being able to elect a representative of their choice in at least one neighboring district.  All three of these states could easily have a second district where African Americans could elect a representative of their choice.

LA02 IIRC it was all but impossible to draw a 2nd black seat in 2010 due to Katrina,
AL07 sure it makes sense to have one black belt seat based in Montgomery and the black belt and then one Birmingham seat, having 2 black seats with an arm to mobile is just as absurd as the current seat.

This is conflating two separate things. It wasn't possible to draw 2 seats with a black majority in Louisiana, it was perfectly possible to draw 1 seat with a black majority and another where blacks would likely have been able to elect the candidate of their choice.

I'd also point out that AL-07 already gets within about 40 miles of Mobile. Sticking an arm out to grab it isn't absurd unless you think the VRA as a whole is absurd.

While I find it disgusting to rely on water contiguity to link the white Mobile CD after the black areas are pulled into the AA CD, something like this
https://davesredistricting.org/join/c4ca1770-6166-4486-a258-1958e35d0913
is perfectly acceptable.

How much higher could you get the black population in AL-07 if you pulled it out of Walker County, northern Tuscaloosa County and the Jefferson County fringes and instead sent AL-06 a little further east into the black-majority counties east of Selma?

EDIT: Looks like two black-majority districts with that kind of split of Mobile were relatively easy to accomplish: https://davesredistricting.org/join/f1b943e7-696c-4525-abf0-def4cf336478 - somewhat ugly, but not horrifically so.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

There are many gerrymandered districts, but are there currently any that violate anti-racial gerrymandering laws?

I can think of three right now:  LA-02, AL-07, and SC-06.  All three districts needlessly pack African American voters into one district to keep the them from being able to elect a representative of their choice in at least one neighboring district.  All three of these states could easily have a second district where African Americans could elect a representative of their choice.

LA02 IIRC it was all but impossible to draw a 2nd black seat in 2010 due to Katrina,
AL07 sure it makes sense to have one black belt seat based in Montgomery and the black belt and then one Birmingham seat, having 2 black seats with an arm to mobile is just as absurd as the current seat.

This is conflating two separate things. It wasn't possible to draw 2 seats with a black majority in Louisiana, it was perfectly possible to draw 1 seat with a black majority and another where blacks would likely have been able to elect the candidate of their choice.

I'd also point out that AL-07 already gets within about 40 miles of Mobile. Sticking an arm out to grab it isn't absurd unless you think the VRA as a whole is absurd.

While I find it disgusting to rely on water contiguity to link the white Mobile CD after the black areas are pulled into the AA CD, something like this
https://davesredistricting.org/join/c4ca1770-6166-4486-a258-1958e35d0913
is perfectly acceptable.

How much higher could you get the black population in AL-07 if you pulled it out of Walker County, northern Tuscaloosa County and the Jefferson County fringes and instead sent AL-06 a little further east into the black-majority counties east of Selma?

I think that it would definitely be possible to get it into black-plurality territory.
Ok so after 20 minutes of work I got this:
https://davesredistricting.org/join/7c11be1f-13cf-4d32-b092-b2dda9305647

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

EDIT: Looks like two black-majority districts with that kind of split of Mobile were relatively easy to accomplish: https://davesredistricting.org/join/f1b943e7-696c-4525-abf0-def4cf336478 - somewhat ugly, but not horrifically so.

I like the compactness of your arrangement, though the county splits are...okay I guess. I am skeptical they could have been avoided.

[I’m not Stu]

What would a fair map of Alabama look like?

[lfromnj]

What would a fair map of Alabama look like?

A black belt seat with Montgomery and a Birmingham seat that would likely elect a black candidate but depending on the extra precints, a Republican in some years.

[lfromnj]

There are many gerrymandered districts, but are there currently any that violate anti-racial gerrymandering laws?

I can think of three right now:  LA-02, AL-07, and SC-06.  All three districts needlessly pack African American voters into one district to keep the them from being able to elect a representative of their choice in at least one neighboring district.  All three of these states could easily have a second district where African Americans could elect a representative of their choice.

LA02 IIRC it was all but impossible to draw a 2nd black seat in 2010 due to Katrina,
AL07 sure it makes sense to have one black belt seat based in Montgomery and the black belt and then one Birmingham seat, having 2 black seats with an arm to mobile is just as absurd as the current seat.

This is conflating two separate things. It wasn't possible to draw 2 seats with a black majority in Louisiana, it was perfectly possible to draw 1 seat with a black majority and another where blacks would likely have been able to elect the candidate of their choice.

I'd also point out that AL-07 already gets within about 40 miles of Mobile. Sticking an arm out to grab it isn't absurd unless you think the VRA as a whole is absurd.

It isn't absurd to stick an arm out ,but Democrats complain about the arm to Birmingham but then want one to Mobile. Both of them split a community and neither should be done. Both the Birmingham and Mobile metro are big enough for their own seat

[Skill and Chance]

I don't think AL-07 or MS-02 is necessarily a problem.  If 2011 VA-03 fell, 2011 LA-02 should obviously fall as well.  Is it possible to draw 2 majority-black CVAP districts in SC without linking distant metros like VA-03 or LA-02?  If so, SC-06 should also fall.