Largest ever study of Atheists in America.

[afleitch]

https://friendlyatheist.patheos.com/2020/05/05/6-takeaways-from-the-largest-ever-study-of-atheists-in-america/

A few interesting takeaways.

A third to a half hide their nonbelief from family members and work colleagues. That's just heartbreaking and really alien to me from a Scottish perspective.

Only 14% were brought up non-religious.

12% have suffered abuse and harrassment because of their non belief. Given the number of participants this can be correlated to living in the Bible Belt and Utah.

87% voted in 2016; pretty high.

23% surveyed/participated identified as LGBT

[John Dule]

A third to a half hide their nonbelief from family members and work colleagues. That's just heartbreaking and really alien to me from a Scottish perspective.

Trust me, it's alien to me from a Californian perspective too. If anything, it's typically the other way around in the Bay Area.

[RINO Tom]

Wow, I figured LGBTQ numbers would be higher than the general population, but that is a big jump.

[afleitch]

Wow, I figured LGBTQ numbers would be higher than the general population, but that is a big jump.

It may be the sample but I know that Gallup and Pew have found similar figures of a higher non religious belief amongst LGBT and queer people. The reason for which should hopefully be self evident.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Some fascinating tidbits here. Thanks for posting this, Andrew.

[RINO Tom]

Wow, I figured LGBTQ numbers would be higher than the general population, but that is a big jump.

It may be the sample but I know that Gallup and Pew have found similar figures of a higher non religious belief amongst LGBT and queer people. The reason for which should hopefully be self evident.

On paper, of course.  However, an anecdotal example is my girlfriend's best friend from high school is a gay man who would identify as "Catholic."  Part of that is his part-Peruvian heritage, maybe, but I still think he'd be adamant about it, regardless of his actual Biblical beliefs or whatever.  This is of course one example, but I certainly wouldn't automatically assume an LGTBQ person I met was a "None," though it obviously wouldn't shock me at all.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Wow, I figured LGBTQ numbers would be higher than the general population, but that is a big jump.

It may be the sample but I know that Gallup and Pew have found similar figures of a higher non religious belief amongst LGBT and queer people. The reason for which should hopefully be self evident.

On paper, of course.  However, an anecdotal example is my girlfriend's best friend from high school is a gay man who would identify as "Catholic."  Part of that is his part-Peruvian heritage, maybe, but I still think he'd be adamant about it, regardless of his actual Biblical beliefs or whatever.  This is of course one example, but I certainly wouldn't automatically assume an LGTBQ person I met was a "None," though it obviously wouldn't shock me at all.

I'm one of three LGBT Catholics in my close friend group. The fact that LGBT people are disproportionately nonreligious doesn't mean all LGBT people are nonreligious; nobody is suggesting that.

[afleitch]

Wow, I figured LGBTQ numbers would be higher than the general population, but that is a big jump.

It may be the sample but I know that Gallup and Pew have found similar figures of a higher non religious belief amongst LGBT and queer people. The reason for which should hopefully be self evident.

On paper, of course.  However, an anecdotal example is my girlfriend's best friend from high school is a gay man who would identify as "Catholic."  Part of that is his part-Peruvian heritage, maybe, but I still think he'd be adamant about it, regardless of his actual Biblical beliefs or whatever.  This is of course one example, but I certainly wouldn't automatically assume an LGTBQ person I met was a "None," though it obviously wouldn't shock me at all.

I mean yeah, I was a self affirming gay Catholic until my mid 20's, so it's not uncommon. A close friend of mine is running a zoom group for his LGBTQ group for Ramadan and another friend still sings in my old church choir. There's a lot of queer faith expression. But it's not a mystery as to why so many aren't religious; for some it's choice. For others it's because they were intentionally burnt.

I think what shocked me about this survey is that people of no faith seem to have a hard time in the USA being able to express it to even their families. It's a very strange closet to be trapped in.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

https://friendlyatheist.patheos.com/2020/05/05/6-takeaways-from-the-largest-ever-study-of-atheists-in-america/

A few interesting takeaways.

A third to a half hide their nonbelief from family members and work colleagues. That's just heartbreaking and really alien to me from a Scottish perspective.

Only 14% were brought up non-religious.

12% have suffered abuse and harrassment because of their non belief. Given the number of participants this can be correlated to living in the Bible Belt and Utah.

87% voted in 2016; pretty high.

23% surveyed/participated identified as LGBT

Citation definitely needed, especially if it's referring to parental abuse and harassment.

[afleitch]

https://friendlyatheist.patheos.com/2020/05/05/6-takeaways-from-the-largest-ever-study-of-atheists-in-america/

A few interesting takeaways.

A third to a half hide their nonbelief from family members and work colleagues. That's just heartbreaking and really alien to me from a Scottish perspective.

Only 14% were brought up non-religious.

12% have suffered abuse and harrassment because of their non belief. Given the number of participants this can be correlated to living in the Bible Belt and Utah.

87% voted in 2016; pretty high.

23% surveyed/participated identified as LGBT

Citation definitely needed, especially if it's referring to parental abuse and harassment.

It's self reported and the survey is linked in the article. There is lot in there; 64% have been excluded from family events because of their non belief snd 52% have been told they were 'not good people'. The perceived religiosity of an area correlates with increased feelings of exclusion which correlate with feelings of isolation.

[Kleine Scheiße]

Not surprised about large numbers having to hide their lack of faith. Sad, but unsurprising.

My personal experience has been the opposite -- people often assume that I am atheistic and then have a far more negative view of me when they discover that I am not. This has cost me quite a few acquaintances and a number of friends, and has even caused me to lose a few serious professional opportunities -- professional opportunities which for me were one-in-a-million already.

Nonetheless, I don't find any of these numbers shocking. My personal experience has been a highly niche one and it seems fairly intuitive that the systemic deck is stacked against atheists in the vast majority of the United States.

Both atheists and Christians in the United States have done and said terrible things to one another, but Christianity is decidedly in-power and ought know better.

[Del Tachi]

https://friendlyatheist.patheos.com/2020/05/05/6-takeaways-from-the-largest-ever-study-of-atheists-in-america/

A few interesting takeaways.

A third to a half hide their nonbelief from family members and work colleagues. That's just heartbreaking and really alien to me from a Scottish perspective.

Only 14% were brought up non-religious.

12% have suffered abuse and harrassment because of their non belief. Given the number of participants this can be correlated to living in the Bible Belt and Utah.

87% voted in 2016; pretty high.

23% surveyed/participated identified as LGBT

Citation definitely needed, especially if it's referring to parental abuse and harassment.

It's self reported and the survey is linked in the article. There is lot in there; 64% have been excluded from family events because of their non belief snd 52% have been told they were 'not good people'. The perceived religiosity of an area correlates with increased feelings of exclusion which correlate with feelings of isolation.

Self-described atheists are exactly the type of people with big enough chips on their shoulders to interpret routine family drama as slights against their irreligion.

Surprised I’m the first one here to bring this perspective, but just calling it as I see it. 

[afleitch]

https://friendlyatheist.patheos.com/2020/05/05/6-takeaways-from-the-largest-ever-study-of-atheists-in-america/

A few interesting takeaways.

A third to a half hide their nonbelief from family members and work colleagues. That's just heartbreaking and really alien to me from a Scottish perspective.

Only 14% were brought up non-religious.

12% have suffered abuse and harrassment because of their non belief. Given the number of participants this can be correlated to living in the Bible Belt and Utah.

87% voted in 2016; pretty high.

23% surveyed/participated identified as LGBT

Citation definitely needed, especially if it's referring to parental abuse and harassment.

It's self reported and the survey is linked in the article. There is lot in there; 64% have been excluded from family events because of their non belief snd 52% have been told they were 'not good people'. The perceived religiosity of an area correlates with increased feelings of exclusion which correlate with feelings of isolation.

Self-described atheists are exactly the type of people with big enough chips on their shoulders to interpret routine family drama as slights against their irreligion.

Surprised I’m the first one here to bring this perspective, but just calling it as I see it. 

What 'type of people' are they?

[Kleine Scheiße]

https://friendlyatheist.patheos.com/2020/05/05/6-takeaways-from-the-largest-ever-study-of-atheists-in-america/

A few interesting takeaways.

A third to a half hide their nonbelief from family members and work colleagues. That's just heartbreaking and really alien to me from a Scottish perspective.

Only 14% were brought up non-religious.

12% have suffered abuse and harrassment because of their non belief. Given the number of participants this can be correlated to living in the Bible Belt and Utah.

87% voted in 2016; pretty high.

23% surveyed/participated identified as LGBT

Citation definitely needed, especially if it's referring to parental abuse and harassment.

It's self reported and the survey is linked in the article. There is lot in there; 64% have been excluded from family events because of their non belief snd 52% have been told they were 'not good people'. The perceived religiosity of an area correlates with increased feelings of exclusion which correlate with feelings of isolation.

Self-described atheists are exactly the type of people with big enough chips on their shoulders to interpret routine family drama as slights against their irreligion.

Surprised I’m the first one here to bring this perspective, but just calling it as I see it.  

And self-described Christians in the United States are exactly the type of people to interpret slights against irreligion and/or LGBT status like eviction as "routine family drama."

It isn't by accident we're at an impasse.

[afleitch]

https://friendlyatheist.patheos.com/2020/05/05/6-takeaways-from-the-largest-ever-study-of-atheists-in-america/

A few interesting takeaways.

A third to a half hide their nonbelief from family members and work colleagues. That's just heartbreaking and really alien to me from a Scottish perspective.

Only 14% were brought up non-religious.

12% have suffered abuse and harrassment because of their non belief. Given the number of participants this can be correlated to living in the Bible Belt and Utah.

87% voted in 2016; pretty high.

23% surveyed/participated identified as LGBT

Citation definitely needed, especially if it's referring to parental abuse and harassment.

It's self reported and the survey is linked in the article. There is lot in there; 64% have been excluded from family events because of their non belief snd 52% have been told they were 'not good people'. The perceived religiosity of an area correlates with increased feelings of exclusion which correlate with feelings of isolation.

Self-described atheists are exactly the type of people with big enough chips on their shoulders to interpret routine family drama as slights against their irreligion.

Surprised I’m the first one here to bring this perspective, but just calling it as I see it.  

And self-described Christians in the United States are exactly the type of people to interpret slights against irreligion and/or LGBT status like eviction as "routine family drama."

It isn't by accident we're at an impasse.

I expected someone to respond in that way, which is unfortunate. It seems acceptable, if not a some sort of weird sport for some religious people to think of atheists, and not just atheists but humanists too as 'online' or 'neckbeards' or any other decade old trope. And it's not just conservative religious people too. So there's an element of dismissiveness or self righteousness at play.

The truth is, this is the first survey to ask in depth how people of no faith feel and how they are treated by society, by their neighbours, family and colleagues. And it's not comfortable reading.

[Kleine Scheiße]

Eventually, it will be admitted and understood across humanity that small details for some people are earthshattering for others, and that there's nothing wrong with that. People will have to eventually admit that they don't understand one another sometimes and that that's okay.

Trying to extrapolate why this data is the way that it is -- outside of the general truth that being religious is pretty much the mainstream in most of the United States -- is the wrong question, I think. We have a benchmark in this for how atheists are experiencing "America," not whether religious people are motivated more by bigotry or by genuine (if immature) faithful concern. It may sound like I'm equivocating here, but what I'm trying to get across is that these statistics are not like party registration or voting patterns -- it's pretty difficult to be a card-carrying atheist or a legally-designated Christian.

This survey presents a numerization of the subjective experience of a group of people who disproportionately reject subjectivity. In addition, the categories on which the survey is based are fluid and debatable in and of themselves. That being said, one thing is obvious: atheists have statistically valid justification to feel like religious people are more likely than not to reject them for demographic reasons. Regardless of why that is the case, that should be addressed.

Nobody's been guilty of any ridiculous assumptions in this thread thus far, for the record.

[Del Tachi]

I'll read these results as confirmation of my believe that Atheism is a complex social identity just like any other self-described religious attitude.  Positive Atheism is a symptom of isolation, family tension, and maybe even discrimination, rather than a cause.

Andy, you even seem to admit as much when you said many LGBTs are affirming Atheists because "they intentionally got burnt".  You can't have your cake and eat it too.  Individuals will self-select into militant Atheism in part because they harbor resentment for the families and communities they were born into or because they are trying to gain access to a new community, just like how other religious converts do.   

Moreover, I'll also point out that the fact "you expected someone to respond this way" is just further confirmation of my point.  If Atheists approach situations expecting to be sidelined or "discriminated against" due to their belief, then it does become a self-fulfilling prophecy of sorts.  I suspect that's in no small part what's being reported here.  The sense of self-martyrdom among self-selected Positive Atheists is legendary. 

[afleitch]

Moreover, I'll also point out that the fact "you expected someone to respond this way" is just further confirmation of my point.  If Atheists approach situations expecting to be sidelined or "discriminated against" due to their belief, then it does become a self-fulfilling prophecy of sorts.  I suspect that's in no small part what's being reported here.  The sense of self-martyrdom among self-selected Positive Atheists is legendary. 

You said; 'Self-described atheists are exactly the type of people with big enough chips on their shoulders to interpret routine family drama as slights against their irreligion.'

Which suggests you see it as somewhat self inflicted rather than reflect on why people might feel that way and what people might face as a result of their non religious identity. Which I would hope you would not do if this was a report about the health and wellbeing of say Muslims in America. I think it is important to not resort as you have done, to tropes or assumptions made about a very broad group of people.

[John Dule]

I'll read these results as confirmation of my believe that Atheism is a complex social identity just like any other self-described religious attitude.  Positive Atheism is a symptom of isolation, family tension, and maybe even discrimination, rather than a cause.

Andy, you even seem to admit as much when you said many LGBTs are affirming Atheists because "they intentionally got burnt".  You can't have your cake and eat it too.  Individuals will self-select into militant Atheism in part because they harbor resentment for the families and communities they were born into or because they are trying to gain access to a new community, just like how other religious converts do.   

Moreover, I'll also point out that the fact "you expected someone to respond this way" is just further confirmation of my point.  If Atheists approach situations expecting to be sidelined or "discriminated against" due to their belief, then it does become a self-fulfilling prophecy of sorts.  I suspect that's in no small part what's being reported here.  The sense of self-martyrdom among self-selected Positive Atheists is legendary. 

"Pfft, these guys don't believe in the invisible man in the sky who watches everything we do! They're obviously not very well-adjusted."

[Del Tachi]

Moreover, I'll also point out that the fact "you expected someone to respond this way" is just further confirmation of my point.  If Atheists approach situations expecting to be sidelined or "discriminated against" due to their belief, then it does become a self-fulfilling prophecy of sorts.  I suspect that's in no small part what's being reported here.  The sense of self-martyrdom among self-selected Positive Atheists is legendary. 

You said; 'Self-described atheists are exactly the type of people with big enough chips on their shoulders to interpret routine family drama as slights against their irreligion.'

Which suggests you see it as somewhat self inflicted rather than reflect on why people might feel that way and what people might face as a result of their non religious identity. Which I would hope you would not do if this was a report about the health and wellbeing of say Muslims in America. I think it is important to not resort as you have done, to tropes or assumptions made about a very broad group of people.

As the survey says, only 14% of Atheists say they grew up in non-religious households.  It's an identity that people largely choose for themselves, unlike religious minorities who are imparted beliefs from their families/communities.  The factors that motive individuals to make the choice of identifying as Atheists are largely responsible for the same feelings of resentment and isolation being reported here.  Atheism is a symptom of how they feel, not the cause.

[Starry Eyed Jagaloon]

Moreover, I'll also point out that the fact "you expected someone to respond this way" is just further confirmation of my point.  If Atheists approach situations expecting to be sidelined or "discriminated against" due to their belief, then it does become a self-fulfilling prophecy of sorts.  I suspect that's in no small part what's being reported here.  The sense of self-martyrdom among self-selected Positive Atheists is legendary. 

You said; 'Self-described atheists are exactly the type of people with bi
g enough chips on their shoulders to interpret routine family drama as slights against their irreligion.'

Which suggests you see it as somewhat self inflicted rather than reflect on why people might feel that way and what people might face as a result of their non religious identity. Which I would hope you would not do if this was a report about the health and wellbeing of say Muslims in America. I think it is important to not resort as you have done, to tropes or assumptions made about a very broad group of people.

As the survey says, only 14% of Atheists say they grew up in non-religious households.  It's an identity that people largely choose for themselves, unlike religious minorities who are imparted beliefs from their families/communities.  The factors that motive individuals to make the choice of identifying as Atheists are largely responsible for the same feelings of resentment and isolation being reported here.  Atheism is a symptom of how they feel, not the cause.

Eh, I don't think you're quite on the mark there. Atheists from religious families can be quite common and quite well-adjusted. The reason they're more likely to positively identify as atheist is because religion is something they think about about a lot because they have religious family members and friends.  Meanwhile, you have a lot of people who didn't grow up in religious families who basically are atheists but don't really think about themselves as such because religion isn't something they think about in any manner so identifying yourself in relation to religion just seems odd. For me, at least, that's the case. Religion has never really been a part of my life, so regardless of what I do or don't believe, I just don't think about religion or my relationship with it in any way. This is how you get a lot of religious "nones" from nonreligious families but not a lot of atheists.

[RINO Tom]

Wow, I figured LGBTQ numbers would be higher than the general population, but that is a big jump.

It may be the sample but I know that Gallup and Pew have found similar figures of a higher non religious belief amongst LGBT and queer people. The reason for which should hopefully be self evident.

On paper, of course.  However, an anecdotal example is my girlfriend's best friend from high school is a gay man who would identify as "Catholic."  Part of that is his part-Peruvian heritage, maybe, but I still think he'd be adamant about it, regardless of his actual Biblical beliefs or whatever.  This is of course one example, but I certainly wouldn't automatically assume an LGTBQ person I met was a "None," though it obviously wouldn't shock me at all.

I'm one of three LGBT Catholics in my close friend group. The fact that LGBT people are disproportionately nonreligious doesn't mean all LGBT people are nonreligious; nobody is suggesting that.

Just sharing.

[Rover]

I'm not surprised, it's my father's experience. On my 13th birthday, I celebrated Bar mitzvah it was the first time for me coming close and speaking to a Rabbi. The next day I asked my father, why don't we attend the synagogue, he told me when he was young, he always celebrated Kiddush (dinner on Saturday eve), kept Shabbat, kept kosher, celebrated all Jewish holidays and fasted on Yom Kippur. However, in his heart, he never believed in any of that, but kept doing so out of respect to his parents.
When my father married my mother, my grandparents were extremely upset because my mother wasn't a jew and he fell out with my grandparents as a result.
My grandfather died a long time ago, he used to be a cantor in Johannesburg, South Africa before immigrated to the US in 1974.
I consider myself an atheist Jew, although, in the eyes of many Jews, I'm not a "real jew" because my mother is a gentile.
My father mentioned that he never told his father, he doesn't believe in God or any of that. I just don't understand it myself, but then I grew up in a godless home.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

This active distrust and dislike of atheists that's being discussed is sort of culturally alien to me. I obviously don't live in nearly as much of a resolutely secular bubble as Dule does, but New England is still one of the less-religious parts of the country at this point and I associate nosy overconcern with other people's irreligiosity mostly with the elderly and with transplants from the Midwest or South.

[Rover]

This active distrust and dislike of atheists that's being discussed is sort of culturally alien to me. I obviously don't live in nearly as much of a resolutely secular bubble as Dule does, but New England is still one of the less-religious parts of the country at this point and I associate nosy overconcern with other people's irreligiosity mostly with the elderly and with transplants from the Midwest or South.

I grew up just outside Worcester, Mass. It's quite secular. But at school I did come across small number of religious students, mostly catholics.
When i served in the military I was flabbergasted by how religious some of my fellow sailors were. Some were quite prejudiced about it, fortunately I haven't come across an unpleasant experience myself.