This Once Great Movement Of Ours

[CumbrianLefty]

Truth is, it very likely wasn't down to them to a large extent - one thing these types consistently do is overestimate the amount of agency individual opposition politicians have in these things.

If the Tories hadn't got lucky with the Scottish referendum and almost stumbled by accident on the "SCARY SCOTS WILL GRAB YOUR HARD WON GOODIES FROM YOU" electoral gold that emerged from there, it is highly doubtful they would have actually won a majority or even avoided losing seats.

There are certainly scenarios where things go a bit differently and Labour returns in 2015 - one of the reasons why the collective nervous breakdown of the party establishment in response to that result was so unfortunate, and not just for the reaction (and its well known consequences) that resulted.

There is a good argument that the Progress lot set the party back several years in those few months.

[JimJamUK]

Kate Osamor MP was suspended today after using Holocaust Memorial Day to accuse Israel of genocide. Somehow, this is only the 1st time she has been suspended (in 2018 she threatened violence against a journalist for asking her about employing her drug dealing son).

[Blair]

Surprised there hasn’t been more about Paul Waugh losing the by election selection; I wonder if it was a case of a deliberate snub (well if you’re trying to make us pick him we’ll say say and pick this random guy) or if the winner just generally did well from being the leader of the county council.

[Coldstream]

Surprised there hasn’t been more about Paul Waugh losing the by election selection; I wonder if it was a case of a deliberate snub (well if you’re trying to make us pick him we’ll say say and pick this random guy) or if the winner just generally did well from being the leader of the county council.

I also wonder how much he was just hyped up by the media since he’s one of them, and if he ever had a chance in reality.

[CumbrianLefty]

He wasn't beaten by that much in the end tbf.

Its not impossible that many members were aware that Galloway was likely to poke his nose in, and so the question of who might be best placed to counter that was a significant one.

[Coldstream]

He wasn't beaten by that much in the end tbf.

Its not impossible that many members were aware that Galloway was likely to poke his nose in, and so the question of who might be best placed to counter that was a significant one.

Pretty dumb logic considering Bradford West 2012 vs Batley and Spen 2021 results.

[CumbrianLefty]

Though the Labour candidate in Bradford was a senior figure on the local council, which gave a pretty obvious target for GG which he duly exploited.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

The constituencies in question are also rather different. In Batley & Spen (unless national conditions are very favourable) Labour typically needs a strong showing at the Batley end of the constituency to overcome the substantial lead the Conservatives usually pile up in the Spen Valley, which meant that Galloway's intervention was very dangerous even if he never had any chance to actually win himself. In the event the seat was saved because Leadbeater polled, by all accounts, unusually well in the Spen Valley. Bradford West, meanwhile, is truly a sui generis constituency: it is not only one of only a handful of constituencies to have a majority Muslim electorate, but it also has a majority Pakistani electorate and (I strongly suspect, and if the hurdle is missed it is a close one) a majority Mirpuri electorate. It is its own electoral universe and has often behaved in ways quite contrary to developments elsewhere, including in other constituencies with substantial Muslim electorates. Rochdale, by the way, differs substantially from both again.

[Pericles]

Reeves: Labour won't cap banker's bonuses

Reeves told the BBC on Wednesday: “The cap on bankers’ bonuses was brought in in the aftermath of the global financial crisis and that was the right thing to do to rebuild the public finances.

“But that has gone now and we don’t have any intention of bringing that back. And as chancellor of the exchequer, I would want to be a champion of a successful and thriving financial services industry in the UK.”

Labour said on Tuesday that it planned to cut swathes of red tape in the financial services sector, while “unashamedly championing” the industry.

(2022 YouGov poll)

[morgieb]

I’m probably being too cynical here, but Reeves feels worryingly like Roger Douglas.

[Pericles]

I’m probably being too cynical here, but Reeves feels worryingly like Roger Douglas.

I was more thinking that the 2020-2023 NZ Labour experience is about to repeat itself, but I guess we don't know that she isn't because Douglas didn't broadcast his agenda before taking power.

[TheTide]

I’m probably being too cynical here, but Reeves feels worryingly like Roger Douglas.

I was more thinking that the 2020-2023 NZ Labour experience is about to repeat itself, but I guess we don't know that she isn't because Douglas didn't broadcast his agenda before taking power.

The (likely) incoming minister, at least of any particular prominence, with the most Douglas potential would be Streeting. Reeves certainly preaches 'fiscal restraint', but so did McDonnell.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Edmund Dell would be closer to the mark for Reeves, I think, though a lot is also just how Labour Chancellors and Shadow Chancellors sound when they're in a strong position internally: the default has always been Gladstonianism with a Human Face, so to speak.

[CumbrianLefty]

Philip Snowden!

[Wiswylfen]

I am reminded yet again that David Evans spoke at Conference of how actually it was good that Labour was cautious in 1997 because if they hadn't campaigned in seats they'd previously lost by ten votes in 1992 they wouldn't have won. Too many people scared of their own shadow and 1992.

It's a shame: Securonomics sounds good. Too bad that in practice it seems to be complete rubbish.

[TheTide]

I’m probably being too cynical here, but Reeves feels worryingly like Roger Douglas.

Btw, it looked for a while in 2021 that Starmer would go down as the British Labour version of H. V. Evatt.

[CumbrianLefty]

Though he lost three elections (the first of them, distinctly unluckily)

Starmer was, for a while, in danger of not even getting the chance to lose one.

[Blair]

Reeves of course has the problem that while she is internally strong and has done a very good political job once she gets into office it will be difficult; the example of Brown (who she is close with!) means people often forget that Labour Chancellors tend to broadly be unpopular and under constant threat of being sacked.

If the economy picks up and this allows a relative opening of the taps to the big social spending areas it will be relatively easy but equally if it doesn't...

I am reminded yet again that David Evans spoke at Conference of how actually it was good that Labour was cautious in 1997 because if they hadn't campaigned in seats they'd previously lost by ten votes in 1992 they wouldn't have won. Too many people scared of their own shadow and 1992.

It's a shame: Securonomics sounds good. Too bad that in practice it seems to be complete rubbish.

Might be my own pet issue but the biggest root of insecurity imv is the multiple housing crisis; whether that's leaseholders in cities, the huge shortages in rural areas, the impact its having on hospitality on the South Coast and just the general malaise it adds to every issue.

The problem of course is that it isn't as simple as opening the cheque book for social housing; there are huge huge problems in both the construction industry and also the fact so much of our 'service' economy is tied to property in various forms.

It's all a massive mess and I guess where I diverge from NIMBYISM is that I don't think planning reform & building more will fix it alone.

[CumbrianLefty]

I’m probably being too cynical here, but Reeves feels worryingly like Roger Douglas.

I was more thinking that the 2020-2023 NZ Labour experience is about to repeat itself, but I guess we don't know that she isn't because Douglas didn't broadcast his agenda before taking power.

Did he even have "his agenda" before then? Always rather struck me as a "zeal of the convert" type.

[All Along The Watchtower]

Posters on TwitterX dot com have been ridiculing Reeves for saying Labour is ”now the pro-worker, pro-business party.”

It seems a disproportionate number of Very Online left-wingers are LARPing as Communists, because “pro-worker, pro-business” just sounds like social democracy? What am I missing?

[Zinneke]

Posters on TwitterX dot com have been ridiculing Reeves for saying Labour is ”now the pro-worker, pro-business party.”

It seems a disportioncate number of Very Online left-wingers are LARPing as Communists, because “pro-worker, pro-business” just sounds like social democracy? What am I missing?

You're missing that Reeves seems to care more about what the Telegraph think of her via soundbites than actually designing policies that will boost productivity without destroying workers rights. That's what I want a social democratic shadow chancellor to actually discuss and debate. It can even be wacky ideas like e-ink screens instead of the dopamine-destroying devices we've let control us or acid binges in Milton Keynes listening to drill n bass to figure out new ways of being, it would still be more worthwhile policy than what she is proposing, which is just Continuity Conservatism.

[Wiswylfen]

Posters on TwitterX dot com have been ridiculing Reeves for saying Labour is ”now the pro-worker, pro-business party.”

It seems a disproportionate number of Very Online left-wingers are LARPing as Communists, because “pro-worker, pro-business” just sounds like social democracy? What am I missing?

It's a line they've been taking for a while now: it's fine to the extent that it's about industrial strategy (insofar as it's not 'financial services') and planning, but when the leadership is thanking Bloomberg by name and pledging not to raise corporation tax while refusing to "allow public spending needs, however important, to threaten the stability of our finances", there are plenty of non-online people in no way on the party's left who will take issue.

[CumbrianLefty]

Anyway, the long rumoured u-turn has now happened.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Anyway, the long rumoured u-turn has now happened.

Though works out more as a classic THIGMOO byzantine compromise than those originally pushing for it wanted. It's very Wilsonian.

[MABA 2020]

Anyway, the long rumoured u-turn has now happened.

Very depressing and doesn't give me great confidence for the Starmer government