This Once Great Movement Of Ours

[Blair]

I think it’s the thing every Labour Leader since Blair (other than Corbyn) has said- I even remember the democrats in 2008 having the same argument over Reagan.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

This kind of feels like a pre-election equivalent of Tony Blair's campaign messaging in 2001 aimed at "One Nation Conservatives".

[CumbrianLefty]

If you are writing for the Telegraph, you aren't going to say "Thatcher was an evil hag" are you.

[Blair]

If you are writing for the Telegraph, you aren't going to say "Thatcher was an evil hag" are you.

Tbh wonder how long until they’ll be going on about Woke Thatcher as she once spoke about trees.

[Torrain]

Didn’t Cameron and Osbourne spend much of 2009-10 presenting themselves as ‘heir to Blair’, and then dismantle much of his domestic agenda via austerity?

Casting yourself in the mould of the other party’s great heroes is just an exercise in making yourself more palatable to their voters.

[CumbrianLefty]

As is typical of Starmer, it was carefully worded anyway.

He says that Thatcher "aimed" to do worthy things, not that she actually did them.

[TheTide]

As is typical of Starmer, it was carefully worded anyway.

He says that Thatcher "aimed" to do worthy things, not that she actually did them.

What she aimed to do was (or would have been) arguably worse than what she actually did do. She didn't turn out to be quite Roger Douglas.

[Pericles]

I think it’s the thing every Labour Leader since Blair (other than Corbyn) has said- I even remember the democrats in 2008 having the same argument over Reagan.

Obama praised Reagan for being a transformative President unlike Clinton which was true, saying Thatcher left a positive legacy would actually be wrong. The goal should be to be transformative like Thatcher btw but of course those realignment plans never work if they're revealed pre-election, so we can always keep our fingers crossed I guess. Obviously he's just tossing out words without caring about what they would logically mean, but everyone should know that Thatcherism and left-wing politics are completely incompatible.

[Zinneke]

If you are writing for the Telegraph, you aren't going to say "Thatcher was an evil hag" are you.

Why give a rag like the Telegraph the time of day anyway? Most of their subscribers should be put on the same watchlist as Anjem Choudary.

[Torrain]

The Telegraph were reputable once, and have enough of a readership/influence that pull-quotes from interviews with them still have an impact.

Even if they’re now reduced to some utterly baffling content:

[Filuwaúrdjan]

The Telegraph were reputable once, and have enough of a readership/influence that pull-quotes from interviews with them still have an impact.

Even if they’re now reduced to some utterly baffling content:

A former Labour parliamentary candidate as a very young man, hilariously. Of course that's absolutely classic for a certain sort of reactionary British journalist, much like his conversion to Catholicism.

[Blair]

It does all feel very much like the party and various people on the left (both in and out of labour) are having the same debate we’ve been having for 40 years about Thatcher and her relationship with white working class voters.

I genuinely despise her because of what she did with Section 28 and our council housing stock but even I can understand the complex relationship while equally not expecting anyone who is a trade unionist, LGBT or one of the many others screwed over by her to not react with complete revulsion.

But again if calling her a right wing fascist who destroyed the working class would have won elections then we’d not be in this position as a party.

A lot of this and the reason for saying it is that political editors and journos learnt their politics in the 1990s so this still feels fresh- did Blair win in 1997 by talking about Wilson or Thatcher talking about MacMillian? We have very weird political memories these days.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Mostly this sort of thing is done to avoid looking too partisan: the electorate, as a rule, does not much like noisy, ultra-partisan behaviour from senior politicians. And it often boils down to (as in this case) 'he/she said they were going to do certain things, and my goodness but they certainly changed the country, didn't they?' which is not exactly praise in a conventional sense.

Oddly, it would probably not be as common if Britain had a more consensus-driven political culture and if most British governments were not constantly trying to reverse as much of the agenda of previous governments from the other side that they can get away with, but we are where we are.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Glenys Kinnock (Baroness Kinnock) has died at seventy nine. Best known as Neil Kinnock's wife, but a notable THIGMOO figure in her own right. She had been very ill - Alzheimer's - for a long time.

[TheTide]

Glenys Kinnock (Baroness Kinnock) has died at seventy nine. Best known as Neil Kinnock's wife, but a notable THIGMOO figure in her own right. She had been very ill - Alzheimer's - for a long time.

The second THIGMOO heavyweight gone within a few days, in fact.

[MaxQue]

Mostly this sort of thing is done to avoid looking too partisan: the electorate, as a rule, does not much like noisy, ultra-partisan behaviour from senior politicians. And it often boils down to (as in this case) 'he/she said they were going to do certain things, and my goodness but they certainly changed the country, didn't they?' which is not exactly praise in a conventional sense.

Oddly, it would probably not be as common if Britain had a more consensus-driven political culture and if most British governments were not constantly trying to reverse as much of the agenda of previous governments from the other side that they can get away with, but we are where we are.

Alternatively, Starmer could just have skipped talking to that Russian-owned rag.

[CumbrianLefty]

As is typical of Starmer, it was carefully worded anyway.

He says that Thatcher "aimed" to do worthy things, not that she actually did them.

What she aimed to do was (or would have been) arguably worse than what she actually did do. She didn't turn out to be quite Roger Douglas.

You may have heard the aphorism that she hoped to build a country worthy of her father, but ended up creating it more in the image of her son.

[oldtimer]

It does all feel very much like the party and various people on the left (both in and out of labour) are having the same debate we’ve been having for 40 years about Thatcher and her relationship with white working class voters.

I genuinely despise her because of what she did with Section 28 and our council housing stock but even I can understand the complex relationship while equally not expecting anyone who is a trade unionist, LGBT or one of the many others screwed over by her to not react with complete revulsion.

But again if calling her a right wing fascist who destroyed the working class would have won elections then we’d not be in this position as a party.

A lot of this and the reason for saying it is that political editors and journos learnt their politics in the 1990s so this still feels fresh- did Blair win in 1997 by talking about Wilson or Thatcher talking about MacMillian? We have very weird political memories these days.

There was a myth built when she was compared favourably to her succesor.

That myth went mostly out of the window with the crash of 2008, which proved once and for all that Thacher was wrong. 

[Cassius]

Mostly this sort of thing is done to avoid looking too partisan: the electorate, as a rule, does not much like noisy, ultra-partisan behaviour from senior politicians. And it often boils down to (as in this case) 'he/she said they were going to do certain things, and my goodness but they certainly changed the country, didn't they?' which is not exactly praise in a conventional sense.

Oddly, it would probably not be as common if Britain had a more consensus-driven political culture and if most British governments were not constantly trying to reverse as much of the agenda of previous governments from the other side that they can get away with, but we are where we are.

Alternatively, Starmer could just have skipped talking to that Russian-owned rag.

The Telegraph isn’t owned by Russians (although it may soon be owned by a UAE based group).

[EastAnglianLefty]

Under its current ownership, it's been quite happy to rent itself to foreign governments (most famously the Chinese), but only for as long as the cheques continue to clear.

[CumbrianLefty]

Glenys Kinnock (Baroness Kinnock) has died at seventy nine. Best known as Neil Kinnock's wife, but a notable THIGMOO figure in her own right. She had been very ill - Alzheimer's - for a long time.

The second THIGMOO heavyweight gone within a few days, in fact.

Her numerical majority when becoming an MEP in 1994 remains the biggest ever in a UK constituency.

[YL]

Nick Brown, who had been suspended for some time, has today announced that he's retiring at the next election and also resigning his membership of the Labour Party, describing the process against him as a "complete farce".

There are nine MPs elected as Labour currently sitting as Independent (as well as seven elected as Tories, one as Plaid and one as SNP).  Brown isn't the only one where there's a somewhat mysterious and apparently very slow disciplinary process going on.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Mark Drakeford has resigned as First Minister and also as Welsh Labour Leader. He had already said he was going soon, but this precise timing has come as a surprise. A new Leader will be in post by Easter. The presumptive favourite is generally thought to be Jeremy Miles (Neath), but that doesn't always mean so much in Welsh Labour. Other possible candidates include the losing candidates from last time around - Vaughan Gething (Cardiff South & Penarth) and Baroness Morgan (aka Eluned Morgan, List) - and there are further names that might have a go for it as well. Could be very open, could be very open-and-shut: not yet clear.

[Wiswylfen]

Nick Brown, who had been suspended for some time, has today announced that he's retiring at the next election and also resigning his membership of the Labour Party, describing the process against him as a "complete farce".

There are nine MPs elected as Labour currently sitting as Independent (as well as seven elected as Tories, one as Plaid and one as SNP).  Brown isn't the only one where there's a somewhat mysterious and apparently very slow disciplinary process going on.

It is disappointing and between his remarks on rivals, what went down last year, and long-standing tensions in Novocastrian politics...

[Torrain]

Just checked the dates, and look like Drakeford timed the announcement to coincide with the fifth anniversary of being sworn into office - 12th Dec 2018.

Little bit earlier than expected, but I guess he has been telegraphing this for a while. Might be worth checking his garage for a new campervan, just in case.