GeneralMacArthur's big Tara Reade article

[BlueSwan]

Now, as a good mamas boy, who have always treated women with respect and has never exhibited any sort of sexually aggressive behaviour (and hence has been much less sexually succesful than my less polite brethren), I would very much welcome a change in culture.

Have you ever considered the idea that your sexual frustration may lie in your complete misunderstanding of women? Harassing a woman into sex or preying on their insecurities is no more "sexual success" (a rather disgusting term, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt) than committing fraud or theft is "financial success".

I knew I would get flack for that post and that is OK. But let me clarify for those who are eager to read malintent into what I wrote.

1) I am not a misogynist. I am a lifelong feminist and proponent of womens rights. I have voted for women in the vast majority of elections I have participated in. I have two daughters who I wish will grow up in a world that actually treats women and men as equals.

2) I do not condone sexually aggressive behaviour and infact in that post wrote that I wish the culture would change. Explaining something is not the same as condoning something. Likewise, the fact that you don't think a criminal should be disqualified for life does not contitute an apology for said criminal action.

3) I am married with three kids and I am not "sexually frustrated". I used to be as a young man, sure. But I am probably amongst a minority of men who can 100% say that they never engaged in any sort of sexually aggressive behaviour or sexually inappropriate action.

4) I am a psychologist (high school teacher by current profession) and as such trained to understand human behaviour. This is basically what I am doing here. Patterns of human behaviour exist for a reason and that reason is generally that this pattern has resulted in succes of some sort for those who exhibit it. The PUA's mentioned in this thread do what they do because it works for them.

5) A LOT of this type of sexually aggressive behaviour pre-MeToo, stems from either a misguided idea of what women want or simply from miscommunication. Men are pretty bad at reading women's signals in general and given that the cultural norm is that the man should be the initiator of sexual contact, that will lead to things that shouldn't have taken place. Some men will be succesful being highly sexually aggressive while others will be regarded as dangerous creeps for the very same behaviours. This is confusing to young men in particular.

6) Largely because of point 5, I generally do not see sexually aggressive behaviour as disqualifying and especially not if said behaviour was undertaken whilst young and stupid (and often intoxicated). I STRONGLY dislike Brett Kavanaugh and see a multitude of reasons why he should never have been allowed to serve in the highest court of the land, but that reason is not something he did as a college kid.

7) And just to clear it up, I am obviously NOT talking about actual rape here. Neither am I talking about clearly malicious sexual actions of any sort. I am talking about inappropriate touching. I am talking about lewd comments. That kind of stuff.

Even if you are correct that our culture does ask men to take initiative with regards to sexual activity, that simply doesn’t excuse literal sexual assault. Lewd comments are one thing, and are highly inappropriate but shouldn’t necessary be disqualifying, but inappropriate touching is both vile and should be completely disqualifying. I am a young male and arguably very stupid, but I do not have a single reason nor a right to sexually touch a women without her consent. And that is how it should be. Age isn’t an excuse and you can make a move without sexually assaulting someone.
Consent is a thing, and every single teenager knows what it is (except for some sheltered freaks)
I don’t believe the Reade accusations for a variety of reasons, and honestly don’t prioritize the issue right now because Trump is committing a genocide, but that doesn’t mean sexual assault is okay. Under normal circumstances, sexual assault would be a disqualifyer for me, especially if the incident was denied at first (and actually did happen)

Well, I agree with basically all of that, except that I am not really trying to excuse said behaviours. But do appreciate the fact that as a young man of 2020, you are living in a culture with interpersonal norms that are vastly different than they were a few decades ago.

[Anti Democrat Democrat Club]

Great to see another Bernie Bro truther reveal their true colors.

[Sprouts Farmers Market ✘]

30,000 people reading this article is not meaningful in the assessment of guilt or innocence of Joe Biden. Just because 3 billion people read the bible does not make the stories in them truth.

So what did the court of Atlas decide?

(a) Kavanaugh on the charge of sexual assault? (Guilty or Not Guilty)
(b) Joe Biden on the charge of sexual assault? (Guilty or Not Guilty)

The Atlas Democrats were raging over the appointment of Kavanaugh given the nature of the allegations themselves. No evidence. No court outcome.

Now, after the "Women should be believed" argument being the new mantra for the Democrats, we have a complete 100% U-Turn on credibility of that argument.

The facts are that we have not even heard from this woman yet speak on the media on the national stage, but somehow we have a conclusive statement of fact.

"Tara Reade’s allegation has now been subject to appropriate inquiry and scrutiny."

No it hasn't. It's a grossly biased assessment made by a left-leaning Democrat supporter who cannot come to terms with the fact that Joe Biden may lose the election in November 2020 because this allegation may actually be true.

The line being parroted out by the masses about Kavanaugh is now about his temperament rather than the accusation. In reality, he was already convicted as a gang rapist in the court of public opinion by every single one of these people for a full week before that incident, and he was rightfully indignant as any righteous person should have been. He felt like his life as an upstanding public servant and member of the community (no longer permitted to coach daughter's sports teams) was being stolen from him (the media mob was intent on seeing it through if not for his friends in good places backing him up), and, judge or not, his behavior was human. He had no option but to defend himself with such vigor, and I view his behavior that day as a virtue. A man with emotion in such a situation is hardly disqualified from judging others. Any sane person would have this healthy reaction.

Joe Biden has not face one-one hundredth of the scrutiny. Kavanaugh's life and reputation came to be defined by these lies in spite of his valiant efforts to fight them off. Joe Biden is still some wacky old dude defined by a million other things in his career, and no one actually cares about this (as it should have been previously).

[Santander]

5) A LOT of this type of sexually aggressive behaviour pre-MeToo, stems from either a misguided idea of what women want or simply from miscommunication. Men are pretty bad at reading women's signals in general and given that the cultural norm is that the man should be the initiator of sexual contact, that will lead to things that shouldn't have taken place. Some men will be succesful being highly sexually aggressive while others will be regarded as dangerous creeps for the very same behaviours. This is confusing to young men in particular.

This is a slightly more nuanced view than what you said earlier about women straight up rewarding men for aggressive sexual behavior, but it doesn't change the fact that "success" and "sexual aggression" do not belong in the same sentence. Regarding misunderstanding or confusion, this might mitigate our judgement of, or even excuse (provided there is remorse and personal growth) some inappropriate behavior from young men, but certainly not from someone of middle to advanced age in a position of power.

[BlueSwan]

5) A LOT of this type of sexually aggressive behaviour pre-MeToo, stems from either a misguided idea of what women want or simply from miscommunication. Men are pretty bad at reading women's signals in general and given that the cultural norm is that the man should be the initiator of sexual contact, that will lead to things that shouldn't have taken place. Some men will be succesful being highly sexually aggressive while others will be regarded as dangerous creeps for the very same behaviours. This is confusing to young men in particular.

This is a slightly more nuanced view than what you said earlier about women straight up rewarding men for aggressive sexual behavior, but it doesn't change the fact that "success" and "sexual aggression" do not belong in the same sentence. Regarding misunderstanding or confusion, this might mitigate our judgement of, or even excuse (provided there is remorse and personal growth) some inappropriate behavior from young men, but certainly not from someone of middle to advanced age in a position of power.

Please note that “sexually aggressive” does not mean the same as physically aggressive. And the point about women often rewarding sexually aggressive behaviour is absolutely true. I don’t like that fact anymore than you do. I most certainly wish that women rewarded nice polite behaviour by men, but particularly when it comes to younger women, that just is not true. Generally speaking of course. There are plenty of women out there who do want nice men, so that’s not what I am saying in the very likely case that someone misconstrues this because they insist on a very black or white view of the world.

[Anti Democrat Democrat Club]

5) A LOT of this type of sexually aggressive behaviour pre-MeToo, stems from either a misguided idea of what women want or simply from miscommunication. Men are pretty bad at reading women's signals in general and given that the cultural norm is that the man should be the initiator of sexual contact, that will lead to things that shouldn't have taken place. Some men will be succesful being highly sexually aggressive while others will be regarded as dangerous creeps for the very same behaviours. This is confusing to young men in particular.

This is a slightly more nuanced view than what you said earlier about women straight up rewarding men for aggressive sexual behavior, but it doesn't change the fact that "success" and "sexual aggression" do not belong in the same sentence. Regarding misunderstanding or confusion, this might mitigate our judgement of, or even excuse (provided there is remorse and personal growth) some inappropriate behavior from young men, but certainly not from someone of middle to advanced age in a position of power.

Please note that “sexually aggressive” does not mean the same as physically aggressive. And the point about women often rewarding sexually aggressive behaviour is absolutely true. I don’t like that fact anymore than you do. I most certainly wish that women rewarded nice polite behaviour by men, but particularly when it comes to younger women, that just is not true. Generally speaking of course. There are plenty of women out there who do want nice men, so that’s not what I am saying in the very likely case that someone misconstrues this because they insist on a very black or white view of the world.

[Bidenworth2020]

5) A LOT of this type of sexually aggressive behaviour pre-MeToo, stems from either a misguided idea of what women want or simply from miscommunication. Men are pretty bad at reading women's signals in general and given that the cultural norm is that the man should be the initiator of sexual contact, that will lead to things that shouldn't have taken place. Some men will be succesful being highly sexually aggressive while others will be regarded as dangerous creeps for the very same behaviours. This is confusing to young men in particular.

This is a slightly more nuanced view than what you said earlier about women straight up rewarding men for aggressive sexual behavior, but it doesn't change the fact that "success" and "sexual aggression" do not belong in the same sentence. Regarding misunderstanding or confusion, this might mitigate our judgement of, or even excuse (provided there is remorse and personal growth) some inappropriate behavior from young men, but certainly not from someone of middle to advanced age in a position of power.

Please note that “sexually aggressive” does not mean the same as physically aggressive. And the point about women often rewarding sexually aggressive behaviour is absolutely true. I don’t like that fact anymore than you do. I most certainly wish that women rewarded nice polite behaviour by men, but particularly when it comes to younger women, that just is not true. Generally speaking of course. There are plenty of women out there who do want nice men, so that’s not what I am saying in the very likely case that someone misconstrues this because they insist on a very black or white view of the world.

Why would you post this?

[Santander]

I see BlueSwan has ditched the shovel and gone straight for an excavator.

[The Dowager Mod]

5) A LOT of this type of sexually aggressive behaviour pre-MeToo, stems from either a misguided idea of what women want or simply from miscommunication. Men are pretty bad at reading women's signals in general and given that the cultural norm is that the man should be the initiator of sexual contact, that will lead to things that shouldn't have taken place. Some men will be succesful being highly sexually aggressive while others will be regarded as dangerous creeps for the very same behaviours. This is confusing to young men in particular.

This is a slightly more nuanced view than what you said earlier about women straight up rewarding men for aggressive sexual behavior, but it doesn't change the fact that "success" and "sexual aggression" do not belong in the same sentence. Regarding misunderstanding or confusion, this might mitigate our judgement of, or even excuse (provided there is remorse and personal growth) some inappropriate behavior from young men, but certainly not from someone of middle to advanced age in a position of power.

Please note that “sexually aggressive” does not mean the same as physically aggressive. And the point about women often rewarding sexually aggressive behaviour is absolutely true. I don’t like that fact anymore than you do. I most certainly wish that women rewarded nice polite behaviour by men, but particularly when it comes to younger women, that just is not true. Generally speaking of course. There are plenty of women out there who do want nice men, so that’s not what I am saying in the very likely case that someone misconstrues this because they insist on a very black or white view of the world.

Greetings!
I am TexasGurl and I will be your forum tormentor, Please strap in and enjoy the ride.

[CookieDamage]

An incel on a predominantly white, male, and straight forum? I'm literally astonished.

[Santander]

An incel on a predominantly white, male, and straight forum? I'm literally astonished.

Are you talking about Atlas?...

[BlueSwan]

An incel on a predominantly white, male, and straight forum? I'm literally astonished.

LOL, I am not an incel and I find the general views of the "incel community" both appalling and untrue. The "black pill" philosophy is complete and utter nonsense.

I must admit that while I do expect pushback from certain corners for stating these things, I'm still baffled how intelligent people can have such a black/white view of these things.

It is infact possible to be a feminist while also acknowledging that women and young women in particular tend to be attracted to classical masculine behaviour - what some might describe as alpha male behaviour. And that such behaviour include what I here describe as sexual aggressiveness, which again does not equal being physically aggressive. It really shouldn't be a hugely controversial claim.

[BlueSwan]

5) A LOT of this type of sexually aggressive behaviour pre-MeToo, stems from either a misguided idea of what women want or simply from miscommunication. Men are pretty bad at reading women's signals in general and given that the cultural norm is that the man should be the initiator of sexual contact, that will lead to things that shouldn't have taken place. Some men will be succesful being highly sexually aggressive while others will be regarded as dangerous creeps for the very same behaviours. This is confusing to young men in particular.

This is a slightly more nuanced view than what you said earlier about women straight up rewarding men for aggressive sexual behavior, but it doesn't change the fact that "success" and "sexual aggression" do not belong in the same sentence. Regarding misunderstanding or confusion, this might mitigate our judgement of, or even excuse (provided there is remorse and personal growth) some inappropriate behavior from young men, but certainly not from someone of middle to advanced age in a position of power.

Please note that “sexually aggressive” does not mean the same as physically aggressive. And the point about women often rewarding sexually aggressive behaviour is absolutely true. I don’t like that fact anymore than you do. I most certainly wish that women rewarded nice polite behaviour by men, but particularly when it comes to younger women, that just is not true. Generally speaking of course. There are plenty of women out there who do want nice men, so that’s not what I am saying in the very likely case that someone misconstrues this because they insist on a very black or white view of the world.

Greetings!
I am TexasGurl and I will be your forum tormentor, Please strap in and enjoy the ride.

I certainly hope that someone will actually debate the merits of my claims instead of just primitive namecalling. That would be very welcome.

[Technocracy Timmy]

or Goldfinger where James Bond rapes Pussy Galore

The things one ends up reading on atlas. Man.

[Santander]

It is infact possible to be a feminist while also acknowledging that women and young women in particular tend to be attracted to classical masculine behaviour - what some might describe as alpha male behaviour. And that such behaviour include what I here describe as sexual aggressiveness, which again does not equal being physically aggressive. It really shouldn't be a hugely controversial claim.

Then tell us exactly what you mean by the bolded. Because we are talking about literal "grab 'em by the p****" type of behavior in this thread, and I'm struggling to understand what kind of tangentially-related behavior you're referring to.

[BlueSwan]

It is infact possible to be a feminist while also acknowledging that women and young women in particular tend to be attracted to classical masculine behaviour - what some might describe as alpha male behaviour. And that such behaviour include what I here describe as sexual aggressiveness, which again does not equal being physically aggressive. It really shouldn't be a hugely controversial claim.

Then tell us exactly what you mean by the bolded. Because we are talking about literal "grab 'em by the p****" type of behavior in this thread, and I'm struggling to understand what kind of tangentially-related behavior you're referring to.

Being sexually aggressive just means being very sexually forward. Coming on to people very bluntly, etc. I am not talking about grabbing women by the p****, obviously, even though I actually believe Trump when he says that he "gets away with it because he is famous".

I think I have been pretty clear in this thread that I do not in any way condone this behaviour. All I have said is that I don't think it is necessarily disqualifying for a political position, because a lot of it is rooted in misunderstanding and miscommunication.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

thanks for the article Gen. Mac! It was a good read.

[Anti Democrat Democrat Club]

An incel on a predominantly white, male, and straight forum? I'm literally astonished.

LOL, I am not an incel and I find the general views of the "incel community" both appalling and untrue. The "black pill" philosophy is complete and utter nonsense.

I must admit that while I do expect pushback from certain corners for stating these things, I'm still baffled how intelligent people can have such a black/white view of these things.

It is infact possible to be a feminist while also acknowledging that women and young women in particular tend to be attracted to classical masculine behaviour - what some might describe as alpha male behaviour. And that such behaviour include what I here describe as sexual aggressiveness, which again does not equal being physically aggressive. It really shouldn't be a hugely controversial claim.

ok simp

[Kamala's side hoe]

An incel on a predominantly white, male, and straight forum? I'm literally astonished.

LOL, I am not an incel and I find the general views of the "incel community" both appalling and untrue. The "black pill" philosophy is complete and utter nonsense.

I must admit that while I do expect pushback from certain corners for stating these things, I'm still baffled how intelligent people can have such a black/white view of these things.

It is infact possible to be a feminist while also acknowledging that women and young women in particular tend to be attracted to classical masculine behaviour - what some might describe as alpha male behaviour. And that such behaviour include what I here describe as sexual aggressiveness, which again does not equal being physically aggressive. It really shouldn't be a hugely controversial claim.

Here's how I'm reading your posts- "there's a difference between complimenting a prospective partner's looks or intelligence or playfully teasing them for staring at you-- and making inappropriate physical contact outside of an intimate setting. Basically, you can hit on someone you're attracted to without invading their personal space without consent or worse, sending them a dick pic."

I'll admit to hitting on people I find attractive in less-than-ideal social scenarios, or sending poorly phrased/timed messages to persons of interest on social media. But that's different from pushing a coworker or an acquaintance against a wall and reaching under their skirt. That's another level of creepy.

[Technocracy Timmy]

It is infact possible to be a feminist while also acknowledging that women and young women in particular tend to be attracted to classical masculine behaviour - what some might describe as alpha male behaviour.

What is this alpha male behavior that attracts young women? I, as a male feminist, am intrigued.

[BlueSwan]

It is infact possible to be a feminist while also acknowledging that women and young women in particular tend to be attracted to classical masculine behaviour - what some might describe as alpha male behaviour.

What is this alpha male behavior that attracts young women? I, as a male feminist, am intrigued.

Not sure if the question is serious, but OK, I'll give the short version.

The idea in evolutionary psychology (and I'm not saying that this is the only view or even true) is that human beings, like all other animals, have developed an evolutionary strategy that allows for the species to continue to exist. Infact, if we hadn't we wouldn't be alive today. That includes deep rooted instincts that we are NOT consciously aware of, that generally helps us survive and produce healthy offspring.

Also at the heart of this theory is the idea that we are still cognitively built to survive as if we lived in a small stone age tribe of maybe 50-100 people or whatever. Now what is a good evolutionary "strategy" for a woman in such a setting?

- She needs a healthy man to produce likely healthy offspring.
- She needs a man with resources to provide for her and their kids.
- If the man has social status that is very good, because that will also ensure her and her children status within the small tribe and make them all more likely to survive and live well.

So basically the idea is that women are instinctively drawn to men who exhibits traits of high social status. These traits include, but are not limited to, classical dominant male behavioural patterns and high confidence. This should also explain why if you go to any high school and locate the biggest and most arrogant jerk of them all, he most likely has plenty of succes with girls.

Now happily, most women mature out of this. Human beings, it turns out, aren't totally dominated by their primal instincts, and we should certainly be thankful for that. This is also what is frustrating about reading about some of these sad incel types. Yeah, you might not be seeing any action at all at age 19 (I sure as hell wasn't), but if you stay kind and work hard to attain success in life, you are going to like your chances a hell of a lot more by the time you are in your mid to late 20's.

Obviously, there is a lot more to it than that, but basically the whole PUA community is based around those ideas from evolutionary psychology and they do that because it works. We may not like that it works, I sure as hell don't, but it does. I most certainly don't recommend using the strategies the PUA's use. I find them manipulative and demeaning and I know from real-life PUA's that they lose respect for women and subsequently find it difficult to build actual meaningful relationships. A former student of mine (a very short and at best average looking guy, who probably fit the incel profile as a teenager) in the 00's ended up as a PUA training other young men, but after a few years he totally quit, because of just those reasons. Today, he strongly advises young men against going down that road. As would I.

[Sir Mohamed]

thanks for the article Gen. Mac! It was a good read.

Yup, that was actually the MS media's job to do.

[Sir Mohamed]

Having read through this thread as evening lecture, let me try to unpack some of the issues. Generally, I think BlueSwan's point is that women feel more attracted by so-called alpha males (a term I have issues with, but ok). People in general, including a lot of men - and especially them -, missconcept this term by being abusive to women or worse. That's a false conclusion and there is no excuse for harassment, assault or rape. Neither is there an excuse for political candidates who have committed in this kind of behavior. IF the allegation by Reade (at least the latest version) was true, it would be disqualifying for Biden or anyone. Period. Being abusive and acting like a bad hombre (not to use harsher terms) is generally not a sign of strength or self-confidence, but merely the opposite. A man with a healthy self confidence doesn't have assault a woman or man. A real alpha male is just being authentic rather than playing a role. Some of the so-called "nice guys" are doing this.What I mean is that they're trying to be someone they are not, just to impress others, and women in particular. Women mostly see through this and get turned off. The self-confident man is polite and gentle, but doesn't hesitate to express different opinions. And with opinions, we're talking about legitimate opinions, not some creepy stuff.

A quick anecdote from a real life experience I've had some 2-3 years ago: We as a group of 6-7 people were around in Santa Cruz, CA nightlife and in a supermarket waiting line, some dude was talking to a friend of my wife. They interacted, exchanged phone numbers to meet later as a group. An hour later, we were at bar and the said man, I call him Dude A, started texting her. He was asking all sorts of trivial questions like "what are you doing?", "where are you guys?", "when can I join?", "where exactly do you want to go?" and so on. She was quickly bored from the exchange. Later on, the said friend of my wife had a drink or two and she was talking all sorts of nonsense to us and a number of strangers, who interacted with her. All of them nodded permanently and pretended to care about the stuff she said. At some point, another man, I call him Dude B, just said: "Please, you're talking nonsense. Would you either be quiet or talk substantial stuff?". As a result, after some back and forth, they further interacted in a substantial fashion later meet again privately.

What's my point? Dude B was "more successful" than Dude A because he didn't play a role. He was just being authentic. He wasn't being rude or said creepy stuff, he just didn't hesitate to express his opinion. He didn't try to impress someone by playing a role.

These are my general thoughts about the discussed issue in general. That doesn't specifically apply to Biden's situation. The Reade allegations latest version have serious credibility issues outlined in the OP's article, which is pretty solid work. If there was serious evidence he did what has been alleged, it would disqualifying.

[Kleine Scheiße]

Jesus tapdancing Christ; is this 4chan? Did I miss something?

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Jesus tapdancing Christ; is this 4chan? Did I miss something?

You have a problem sir?