S.20.2-2: Changing Our Capitol Amendment (Passed)

[Senator-elect Spark]

Introducing a constitutional amendment:

Changing our Capitol Amendment

The following changes will be made to the Southern Constitution, Article I, Section 2:

2. The regional capital for The South established in this Constitution shall be Nashville, Tennessee Austin, Texas. The region may also be referred to as the Southern Region.

Sponsor: MB

Debate to last 48 hours.

[diptheriadan]

I'll repost what I said in the introduction thread:

If it must be changed (and I can definitely see a case for doing so, mostly because Nashville is a sh!t city), it should be changed to something like New Orleans, Memphis, or Atlanta. Can Austin even be described as a Southern city, at least to the same degree as the ones mentioned.

EDIT: Another possibility is to have the capital change seasonally. New Orleans for winter, Austin for fall, St. Louis for summer, and Atlanta for spring would cover pretty much all major regional divisions of the South, as well as avoid extreme weather.

Alternatively there could also be a randomized rotating capital for basically the same reason. A state is picked at random, then a city greater than a certain population threshold every year or every session, possibly with cities previously chosen removed from the standing for a certain time period.

Depending on how 'real' we're willing to take this game, a bureaucratic capital of sorts might be necessary since obviously our fictional bureaucracy can't move around as much as the Chamber can.

[Senator-elect Spark]

I can support this amendment but I do believe we should gain the input of the Southern people on this.

[reagente]

I think we should have a two-part referendum to deal with this question. Ran similarly to how the flag referendum was in 2019.

We will have a notice and comment period where people can put forward various proposals for the capital. A vote will then be held to see which alternative option is most popular.

After there is an alternative, we will have a second ballot question concerning whether we want to move the capitol to that location or have it remain in Nashville.

[Jay 🏳️‍⚧️]

Depending on how 'real' we're willing to take this game, a bureaucratic capitol of sorts might be necessary since obviously our fictional bureaucracy can't move around as much as the Chamber can.

South Africa situation possibly? Pretoria is the administrative capital, their judicial capital is Bloemfontein, and their legislature meets in Cape Town.

[Deep Dixieland Senator, Muad'dib (OSR MSR)]

I think we should have a two-part referendum to deal with this question. Ran similarly to how the flag referendum was in 2019.

We will have a notice and comment period where people can put forward various proposals for the capital. A vote will then be held to see which alternative option is most popular.

After there is an alternative, we will have a second ballot question concerning whether we want to move the capitol to that location or have it remain in Nashville.

I don't think the capital should be changed, but this seems a decent method for selecting a change.

[Dr. MB]

Constantly changing the capital seems like a waste of time. I’d rather just have it be in 1 place.

[AustralianSwingVoter]

Wouldn't New Orleans or Atlanta make more sense as a central and historical hub of the South? Austin is about as central as DC is in relation to the entire region.

[AustralianSwingVoter]

Constantly changing the capital seems like a waste of time. I’d rather just have it be in 1 place.

If the capital has to be in one place then why Austin of all choices? It isn't at all central, it doesn't have historical significance, and it really doesn't represent the broad region of the South. In a region spanning from Delaware to Texas and from Missouri to Florida why place a capital in such an unrepresentative location?

[Deep Dixieland Senator, Muad'dib (OSR MSR)]

Constantly changing the capital seems like a waste of time. I'd rather just have it be in 1 place.

If the capital has to be in one place then why Austin of all choices? It isn't at all central, it doesn't have historical significance, and it really doesn't represent the broad region of the South. In a region spanning from Delaware to Texas and from Missouri to Florida why place a capital in such an unrepresentative location?

Nashville is both central and already established as the capital of our great region. A positive and what should be an overwhelming case for change needs to be made for this to be considered for another referendum. Perhaps the Governor and maybe the Speaker, who proposed this before, can outline why this change is necessary, other than being another Texas vanity project.

[Former President tack50]

Given the recent controversies, I suppose moving the capital to Kansas City, KS; or really any place in Kansas  could be a way to make a statement

Or if you want to have controversies with Lincoln, Wilmington, DE works I suppose

[tmthforu94]

Another issue where some people who lack insight on the region come in and try to dictate what to do. I've seen no substantive reasoning in this thread so far as to why the capitol should be changed.

Changing our capitol at this moment is a waste of time, and most importantly, a waste of financial resources. The notion that we can just randomly change with no impact is impractical - changing the capitol costs millions of dollars, and considering we are in the middle of a national crisis that has cost thousands of lives and has damaged our national economy, now is NOT the appropriate time to be considering an OPTIONAL decision like this.

Delegates, I urge you to motion to table this bill and focus on issues that can HELP our citizens who are dealing with the coronavirus and beyond.

[Senator-elect Spark]

Since this is not a high priority for the South as of now and in light of Tmth's comments, I motion to table until a later date.

[Senator-elect Spark]

Do think that this can be done in the future with the consent of the Southern people through a referendum.

[AustralianSwingVoter]

Do think that this can be done in the future with the consent of the Southern people through a referendum.

Given this was attempted only a year ago and the Southern people voted to keep the capital in Nashville, shouldn't the views of the Southern public on this be pretty clear already?

[Deep Dixieland Senator, Muad'dib (OSR MSR)]

Another issue where some people who lack insight on the region come in and try to dictate what to do. I've seen no substantive reasoning in this thread so far as to why the capitol should be changed.

Changing our capitol at this moment is a waste of time, and most importantly, a waste of financial resources. The notion that we can just randomly change with no impact is impractical - changing the capitol costs millions of dollars, and considering we are in the middle of a national crisis that has cost thousands of lives and has damaged our national economy, now is NOT the appropriate time to be considering an OPTIONAL decision like this.

Delegates, I urge you to motion to table this bill and focus on issues that can HELP our citizens who are dealing with the coronavirus and beyond.

Hear! Hear!

Do think that this can be done in the future with the consent of the Southern people through a referendum.

If you want a referendum you need to pass this in the chamber first.

Do think that this can be done in the future with the consent of the Southern people through a referendum.

Given this was attempted only a year ago and the Southern people voted to keep the capital in Austin, shouldn't the views of the Southern public on this be pretty clear already?

You mean keep the capital in Nashville

I'm glad you fixed you're reply

[Senator-elect Spark]

If no delegates object within the 24 hours, the bill shall be tabled.

[reagente]

I object.

While I am neutral to the idea of a capitol change, I think there is enough interest in the subject to merit a vote.

I think the best approach would be a two-vote system as I proposed. The first vote (to select which alternate capital location should be put to a vote), can occur mid-term, while the final vote on moving the capital to the new location or remaining in Nashville can be held concurrently with the next chamber elections, so there is maximum turnout to settle the issue.

[Senator-elect Spark]

I object.

While I am neutral to the idea of a capitol change, I think there is enough interest in the subject to merit a vote.

I think the best approach would be a two-vote system as I proposed. The first vote (to select which alternate capital location should be put to a vote), can occur mid-term, while the final vote on moving the capital to the new location or remaining in Nashville can be held concurrently with the next chamber elections, so there is maximum turnout to settle the issue.

Your objection is acknowledged.

[diptheriadan]

Constantly changing the capital seems like a waste of time. I’d rather just have it be in 1 place.

Well, it isn't really changing the capital so much as it's changing the Chamber's venue, the idea being that by changing the location of the Chamber, it forces them to interact with more and more of the South, which itself allows for better representation. It's a very game-y proposal, no doubt, but it's an area where we can be game-y, and where it might be fun to do so.

Ultimately, it all comes down to roleplay. We have to pretend we have a massive bureaucracy, because if we don't we have to completely change the way we legislate and budget, among other things. Chamber size isn't, I think, really affected by this roleplay. If we look at this from the perspective of playing an online game, we only have five delegates. If we look at this from the perspective of actually governing a massive region, we're still only going to have five members. We're not (and I don't even think we can) pretending to have a legislative body of a size that's more realistic for a region of our size. I hope that makes sense. EDIT: Thus, we have the ability to have a moving Chamber

Again, it really is just a nice (and relatively harmless) flourish. It might also attract new registrees to the South. 

* This is also a defense of changing the (legislative) capital often AND a defense of having a settled capital where business that can't change location frequently is, if that wasn't clear enough. Not either/or, but both concepts at the same time.

[Dr. MB]

I’m okay with tabling this for now.

[reagente]

Proposed Amendment:

Section 1:
a. There will be an advisory, instant-runoff-voting referendum held mid-term to select the most popular alternative capitol location.
b. Nashville, Tennessee, or any locality in the Nashville, Tennessee Metropolitan statistical area cannot appear as an option on this referendum

Section 2:
a. The most popular alternative capitol location selected according to Section 1 (hereafter referred to as "selected locality") will be placed on the ballot as constitutional amendment for the location for a new capitol, concurrent with the next Southern Chamber election.
b. should the constitutional amendment pass, this will modify the Southern Constitution, Article I, Section 2 to read:

2. The regional capital for The South established in this Constitution shall be Nashville, Tennessee <Selected Locality, Selected Locality's State>. The region may also be referred to as the Southern Region.

[Senator-elect Spark]

Proposed Amendment:

Section 1:
a. There will be an advisory, instant-runoff-voting referendum held mid-term to select the most popular alternative capitol location.
b. Nashville, Tennessee, or any locality in the Nashville, Tennessee Metropolitan statistical area cannot appear as an option on this referendum

Section 2:
a. The most popular alternative capitol location selected according to Section 1 (hereafter referred to as "selected locality") will be placed on the ballot as constitutional amendment for the location for a new capitol, concurrent with the next Southern Chamber election.
b. should the constitutional amendment pass, this will modify the Southern Constitution, Article I, Section 2 to read:

2. The regional capital for The South established in this Constitution shall be Nashville, Tennessee <Selected Locality, Selected Locality's State>. The region may also be referred to as the Southern Region.

Objection period shall last 24 hours, if no delegates object, the amendment shall pass.

[reagente]

I motion for a vote

[reagente]

I motion for a vote

Objecting to the motion due to waiting for amendment to pass.

It's passed at the time you posted it, hasn't it?

I thought it was 24 hours when I posted, but I wasn't set to EST.

Regardless, if there is a technical issue, then I motion for a vote again.