Hungary prepares to end legal recognition of trans people

[President of the great nation of 🏳️‍⚧️]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/26/hungary-prepares-to-end-legal-recognition-of-trans-people

Hungary’s rightwing government looks likely to push through legislation that will end the legal recognition of trans people by defining gender as “biological sex based on primary sex characteristics and chromosomes” and thus making it impossible for people to legally change their gender.

Trans people and rights activists say the law, which has been introduced into parliament as attention is focused on the coronavirus pandemic, will increase discrimination and intolerance towards trans people. Many will try to leave the country, while those who do not have that chance will face daily humiliations.

“In Hungary, you need to show your ID to rent a bike, buy a bus pass or to pick up a package at the post office. It basically means coming out as trans to complete strangers, all the time. The good version is they are nice about it, but there are situations where people turn quite hostile,” said Ivett Ördög, a 39-year-old trans woman living in Budapest.

I'm sure this won't result in a sh**tstorm.

[PSOL]

Orban and people like him are just burying the Hungarian people further in a hole, a hole that ultimately they will burst open from. Either way, the fight continues on for human rights.

[T'Chenka]

This is sad but expected with a dictatorship.

[Intell]

Kick Hungary out of the EU.

[afleitch]

Kick Hungary out of the EU.

As much as I hated to leave the EU, I do have severe reservations over their inability to discipline Hungary and Poland.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Kick Hungary out of the EU.

As much as I hated to leave the EU, I do have severe reservations over their inability to discipline Hungary and Poland.

"Sure, Orban might be accruing limitless 'emergency' powers and PiS might be more theocratic than the Vatican, but Italy's in danger of running a budget deficit that's too high after a decade of double-digit unemployment, so clearly they're a nation of indolent mandolin-players who can't be trusted with sovereignty."

[Cassius]

This is sad but expected with a dictatorship.

Yet, this so-called ‘dictatorship’ continues to enjoy more popular support than most other Western governments do.

[T'Chenka]

This is sad but expected with a dictatorship.

Yet, this so-called ‘dictatorship’ continues to enjoy more popular support than most other Western governments do.

Hitler's approval numbers were through the roof. Right and wrong aren't measured by aporoval ratings.

[CumbrianLefty]

This is sad but expected with a dictatorship.

Yet, this so-called ‘dictatorship’ continues to enjoy more popular support than most other Western governments do.

Hitler's approval numbers were through the roof. Right and wrong aren't measured by aporoval ratings.

Indeed it can be argued the less democratic a country is, the less meaningful "approval ratings" are.

[Intell]

This is sad but expected with a dictatorship.

Yet, this so-called ‘dictatorship’ continues to enjoy more popular support than most other Western governments do.

I'm sure that Xi also enjoys more popular support than western governments.

[PSOL]

This is sad but expected with a dictatorship.

Yet, this so-called ‘dictatorship’ continues to enjoy more popular support than most other Western governments do.

The problem with that is that Orban and his allies control most of the media in the country, similar to what is true of Italy and Berluscioni, so a lot of that is manufactured by a controlled media.

[GM Team Member and Senator WB]

Kick 'em out of the EU and sanction the f**k outta them til they get their heads back on straight and become an ACTUAL democracy.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

This is sad but expected with a dictatorship.

Yet, this so-called ‘dictatorship’ continues to enjoy more popular support than most other Western governments do.

Because it's impossible for a dictatorship to enjoy popular support. Never happened in history.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Kick Hungary out of the EU.

As much as I hated to leave the EU, I do have severe reservations over their inability to discipline Hungary and Poland.

True.

Still worth pointing out that PiS is fortunately too weak to do as much harm as Orban. At this point they're at a very real risk of losing their slender majority.

[John Dule]

Right and wrong aren't measured by aporoval ratings.

Good. You have begun to understand the immorality of democracy.

[afleitch]

Kick Hungary out of the EU.

As much as I hated to leave the EU, I do have severe reservations over their inability to discipline Hungary and Poland.

"Sure, Orban might be accruing limitless 'emergency' powers and PiS might be more theocratic than the Vatican, but Italy's in danger of running a budget deficit that's too high after a decade of double-digit unemployment, so clearly they're a nation of indolent mandolin-players who can't be trusted with sovereignty."

Kick Hungary out of the EU.

As much as I hated to leave the EU, I do have severe reservations over their inability to discipline Hungary and Poland.

True.

Still worth pointing out that PiS is fortunately too weak to do as much harm as Orban. At this point they're at a very real risk of losing their slender majority.

The EU was happy to (correctly) sanction Austria twenty years ago due the whole Haider in government thing. Not doing so to post 2004 countries is damning. Why does Austria be warned but 'eastern bloc gonna eastern bloc'; it's elitist. I understand Poland is different but I fear that inaction in Hungary would give the next iteration of PiS (as it always f-ing comes back) an excuse.

[Woody]

Excellent news.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

The EU was happy to (correctly) sanction Austria twenty years ago due the whole Haider in government thing. Not doing so to post 2004 countries is damning. Why does Austria be warned but 'eastern bloc gonna eastern bloc'; it's elitist. I understand Poland is different but I fear that inaction in Hungary would give the next iteration of PiS (as it always f-ing comes back) an excuse.

If I remember correctly, there was no official "sanctions", rather other EU leaders agreeing to conduct a some sort of diplomatic boycott against the Schüssel government. And I have mixed feelings about that one, since him allowing FPÖ to become a junior coalition partner didn't result in anything big, but weakened them in a long run (though admitting them to the government was a risky thing). Even I think the EU, or some of its' countries, vetoing a member state's government composition is not a good idea (the sanctions should be in place in case a government actually does something against democratic principles/human rights). It has no comparison to Orban giving himself unchecked emergency powers with provisions like charging the people from "spreading fake news" (we all know what that provision is really about).

It's sadly ironic the people keep on moaning the EU has "too much powers", but in reality it can't even prevent Orban from openly transforming himself into Horthy without an admiral's epaulettes.

[Santander]

This is sad but expected with a dictatorship.

Yet, this so-called ‘dictatorship’ continues to enjoy more popular support than most other Western governments do.

There's no need to use quotes around "dictatorship". He literally passed an Enabling Act.

You can call it a benevolent dictatorship if you want, but at least own your sh**t.

[parochial boy]

It's sadly ironic the people keep on moaning the EU has "too much powers", but in reality it can't even prevent Orban from openly transforming himself into Horthy without an admiral's epaulettes.

Because that great liberal-icon-coronavirus-hero Merkel is fundamentally too spineless and too bent to the will of Mercedes and Opel and German economic orthodoxy to ever allow any of the sort of actions that the EU needs to take. Same with Eurobonds and fiscal union; same with the green deal; same with actually democratising the EU institutions.

[Cassius]

This is sad but expected with a dictatorship.

Yet, this so-called ‘dictatorship’ continues to enjoy more popular support than most other Western governments do.

Hitler's approval numbers were through the roof. Right and wrong aren't measured by aporoval ratings.

Well, if one purports to believe in ‘democracy’ what else can they be measured by?

This is sad but expected with a dictatorship.

Yet, this so-called ‘dictatorship’ continues to enjoy more popular support than most other Western governments do.

The problem with that is that Orban and his allies control most of the media in the country, similar to what is true of Italy and Berluscioni, so a lot of that is manufactured by a controlled media.

This is pretty much par for the course in most western democracies - maybe not quite as directly and hamfistedly as in Hungary, but the press are always in the tank for one side or the other and formulate their reporting with that partisan intent in mind.

This is sad but expected with a dictatorship.

Yet, this so-called ‘dictatorship’ continues to enjoy more popular support than most other Western governments do.

Because it's impossible for a dictatorship to enjoy popular support. Never happened in history.

Well no. But a government that can claim the support of c. 50% of the population, whilst being a little slipshod in maintaining the frills of ‘liberal democracy’, is less of an affront to the principle of ‘democracy’ than a government which does tend to those frills but also has approval ratings in the cellar and hasn’t faced the electorate for years.

[GM Team Member and Senator WB]

This is sad but expected with a dictatorship.

Yet, this so-called ‘dictatorship’ continues to enjoy more popular support than most other Western governments do.

Hitler's approval numbers were through the roof. Right and wrong aren't measured by aporoval ratings.

Well, if one purports to believe in ‘democracy’ what else can they be measured by?

What? Just because people like it doesn't mean it's morally right for f**ks sake.

[Omega21]

Really bad development, but to all people saying they should kick em out:

Why the hell would You punish 14 Mil people because of 1 relatively small group, compared to the total?

Support others, help change, but punishing every single Hungarian would be despicable.

[afleitch]

Really bad development, but to all people saying they should kick em out:

Why the hell would You punish 14 Mil people because of 1 relatively small group, compared to the total?

Support others, help change, but punishing every single Hungarian would be despicable.

History: ...

[Former President tack50]

Khrushchev did nothing wrong in '56