COVID-19 Megathread 5: The Trumps catch COVID-19

[jimrtex]

Article

Banning religious singing while blessing marxist riots. It is my opinion that I hope Californians violently oppose this and the evil governor. Thus is beyond tyrannical.

Rioting (violence, destroying private property, looting) is illegal and always has been.
Peaceful protest is protected by the 1st Amendment and when people wear masks, hasn’t been shown to cause a public health risk. It’s a combination of being outside and people wearing masks that makes it safe.
Singing indoors with groups has been the source of multiple superspreader events leading to illness and deaths. This is a smart and sensible public health measure which will save lives. If you’re “pro-life”, you’ll stand with the government.

Im not "pro-life" im "pro-freedom". Religious worship is more important to me than "peaceful" protests. Especially when enforcement is extremely discriminatory. The media literally called it terrorism to protest the lockdowns then immediately flipflopped if you were protesting for communist garbage. There is nothing sensible about this. This is a fricking authoritarian coup via the big corporations who control the media.

Can I ask you something, since I haven't really picked up on you before as a distinctive poster.

Are you being serious in any of this? I mean, seriously, when the state discourages singing in church because it's killed people, you don't understand why they do that? I'm trying to understand what motivates you here.

California has banned singing and chanting in churches.

Whose church! The Lord's church!

But it OK to chant in the street as you block traffic and provide cover for rioters and looters and topples statues of Junipero Serra.

[cg41386]

News flash- it isn’t just churches. Christians still aren’t being persecuted.

[Joe Republic]

I understand that people go to church in order to reinforce their planned entry into 'heaven' and such.  So by trying to go to church right now anyway, are they simply trying to get there sooner than previously planned?  Semi-serious question; I’ll never understand how these people think.

[Brittain33]

California is banning singing in church to save the health and lives of people in the church or who will come into contact with people in the church. This is after several superspreader events related to church singing indoors which has proven to be one of the most dangerous practices in COVID times.

People like blackraisin need to explain why they disregard these facts and make wild claims that this is a totalitarian move, as if anyone in state government *wants* to do this, when the rationale is right there.

More so, you need to explain why you are indifferent to the health and life of people who sing in church choirs, the people they come into contact with, and the people those people come into contact with, that you’d actively fight and argue and scream for the right of the coronavirus to rip through all of their lives.

[Brittain33]

Article

Banning religious singing while blessing marxist riots. It is my opinion that I hope Californians violently oppose this and the evil governor. Thus is beyond tyrannical.

Rioting (violence, destroying private property, looting) is illegal and always has been.
Peaceful protest is protected by the 1st Amendment and when people wear masks, hasn’t been shown to cause a public health risk. It’s a combination of being outside and people wearing masks that makes it safe.
Singing indoors with groups has been the source of multiple superspreader events leading to illness and deaths. This is a smart and sensible public health measure which will save lives. If you’re “pro-life”, you’ll stand with the government.

Im not "pro-life" im "pro-freedom". Religious worship is more important to me than "peaceful" protests. Especially when enforcement is extremely discriminatory. The media literally called it terrorism to protest the lockdowns then immediately flipflopped if you were protesting for communist garbage. There is nothing sensible about this. This is a fricking authoritarian coup via the big corporations who control the media.

Can I ask you something, since I haven't really picked up on you before as a distinctive poster.

Are you being serious in any of this? I mean, seriously, when the state discourages singing in church because it's killed people, you don't understand why they do that? I'm trying to understand what motivates you here.

California has banned singing and chanting in churches.

Whose church! The Lord's church!

But it OK to chant in the street as you block traffic and provide cover for rioters and looters and topples statues of Junipero Serra.

Jim, as on the threads about Trayvon Martin and George Floyd, you don’t appear to express any sadness or solemnity about people losing their lives. Are the lives of people who go to church and sing not sacred to you and to God? Shouldn’t we mourn their loss?

[Koharu]

The number of sheriffs saying they won't enforce the mask requirements is frustrating. Butler County in Ohio is between Cincinnati and Dayton and is considered a hotspot and thus requires masks, but the sheriff has stated he won't enforce it. I have a friend who is a librarian in Dayton and she and her coworkers are facing patrons who don't mask up. A nearby library had a staff member test positive, so their fear is justified.

Sheriffs in Texas have also spoken publicly about their intent to not enforce the requirement. I believe some in Arizona have as well, but I don't have the receipts for that the way I do for Texas and Ohio. I can only hope that the requirement encourages more people to wear them even without enforcement.

[jimrtex]

California is banning singing in church to save the health and lives of people in the church or who will come into contact with people in the church. This is after several superspreader events related to church singing indoors which has proven to be one of the most dangerous practices in COVID times.

People like blackraisin need to explain why they disregard these facts and make wild claims that this is a totalitarian move, as if anyone in state government *wants* to do this, when the rationale is right there.

More so, you need to explain why you are indifferent to the health and life of people who sing in church choirs, the people they come into contact with, and the people those people come into contact with, that you’d actively fight and argue and scream for the right of the coronavirus to rip through all of their lives.

There was the choir practice in Washington. Many of the choir members were older.

Do you hear the people sing? (Youtube)

Or do you just see an anti-social mob?

How would you enforce the government's ban on singing in churches?

Perhaps Gavin Newsom could post his edict on the church doors as a latter day Martin Luther?

[wbrocks67]

Murphy announced on Morning Joe today that he's announcing an exec order later for NJ for mandated masks in public, much like PA. Good, but should've happened at least a week ago when PA announced

[FrancoAgo]

The sheriffs that say they won't enforce the mask requirement order, are doing a crime?

[Penn_Quaker_Girl]

Talked to an RN friend down in Miami last night.  From that day, 46 in triage, 48 on admit hold. 

Simply not enough beds to handle that caseload. 

[Person Man]

Talked to an RN friend down in Miami last night.  From that day, 46 in triage, 48 on admit hold. 

Simply not enough beds to handle that caseload. 

You mean it's happening?

[GeorgiaModerate]

Talked to an RN friend down in Miami last night.  From that day, 46 in triage, 48 on admit hold.  

Simply not enough beds to handle that caseload.  

You mean it's happening?

Yes:

As novel coronavirus cases in Florida soar past 213,000, 56 hospitals are reported to have no intensive care unit (ICU) beds available, with dozens more reporting over 90 percent of ICU beds are full, according to the latest report Tuesday from Florida's Agency for Health Care Administration.

At least 56 hospitals across 25 Florida counties were reported to have reached full bed capacity in their ICUs, including eight in Miami-Dade County, the most populous county in Florida whose county seat is Miami.

https://www.newsweek.com/56-florida-icu-beds-are-full-dozens-more-over-90-percent-capacity-1516054

[Person Man]

Talked to an RN friend down in Miami last night.  From that day, 46 in triage, 48 on admit hold.  

Simply not enough beds to handle that caseload.  

You mean it's happening?

Yes:

As novel coronavirus cases in Florida soar past 213,000, 56 hospitals are reported to have no intensive care unit (ICU) beds available, with dozens more reporting over 90 percent of ICU beds are full, according to the latest report Tuesday from Florida's Agency for Health Care Administration.

At least 56 hospitals across 25 Florida counties were reported to have reached full bed capacity in their ICUs, including eight in Miami-Dade County, the most populous county in Florida whose county seat is Miami.

https://www.newsweek.com/56-florida-icu-beds-are-full-dozens-more-over-90-percent-capacity-1516054

So if I get covfefe'd or get have any other emergency, I'm finksed?

[Penn_Quaker_Girl]

Talked to an RN friend down in Miami last night.  From that day, 46 in triage, 48 on admit hold.  

Simply not enough beds to handle that caseload.  

You mean it's happening?

Yes:

As novel coronavirus cases in Florida soar past 213,000, 56 hospitals are reported to have no intensive care unit (ICU) beds available, with dozens more reporting over 90 percent of ICU beds are full, according to the latest report Tuesday from Florida's Agency for Health Care Administration.

At least 56 hospitals across 25 Florida counties were reported to have reached full bed capacity in their ICUs, including eight in Miami-Dade County, the most populous county in Florida whose county seat is Miami.

https://www.newsweek.com/56-florida-icu-beds-are-full-dozens-more-over-90-percent-capacity-1516054

So if I get covfefe'd or get have any other emergency, I'm finksed?

"My Presidency is finksed!" exclaimed the President. 

[Person Man]

Talked to an RN friend down in Miami last night.  From that day, 46 in triage, 48 on admit hold.  

Simply not enough beds to handle that caseload.  

You mean it's happening?

Yes:

As novel coronavirus cases in Florida soar past 213,000, 56 hospitals are reported to have no intensive care unit (ICU) beds available, with dozens more reporting over 90 percent of ICU beds are full, according to the latest report Tuesday from Florida's Agency for Health Care Administration.

At least 56 hospitals across 25 Florida counties were reported to have reached full bed capacity in their ICUs, including eight in Miami-Dade County, the most populous county in Florida whose county seat is Miami.

https://www.newsweek.com/56-florida-icu-beds-are-full-dozens-more-over-90-percent-capacity-1516054

So if I get covfefe'd or get have any other emergency, I'm finksed?

"My Presidency is finksed!" exclaimed the President. 

I’ll take that at as yes, then. The question is whether I can not get in an accident for the rest of the year.

[emailking]

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1280853299600789505
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1280857657365200902

[Bandit3 the Worker]

I'm as against Trump as anyone else is, but even a broken clock is right twice a day. Our schools and colleges have to come back pretty much like normal. Have to.

I've known quite a few teachers who say they can't do their jobs as long as distance learning and extreme social distancing remain in force.

Also, a few schools in Montana did come back on May 7, and were somewhat close to normal. They didn't have any problems.

[jimrtex]

The number of sheriffs saying they won't enforce the mask requirements is frustrating. Butler County in Ohio is between Cincinnati and Dayton and is considered a hotspot and thus requires masks, but the sheriff has stated he won't enforce it. I have a friend who is a librarian in Dayton and she and her coworkers are facing patrons who don't mask up. A nearby library had a staff member test positive, so their fear is justified.

Sheriffs in Texas have also spoken publicly about their intent to not enforce the requirement. I believe some in Arizona have as well, but I don't have the receipts for that the way I do for Texas and Ohio. I can only hope that the requirement encourages more people to wear them even without enforcement.

How do sheriffs in Wisconsin enforce laws?

[Dr. Arch]

I'm as against Trump as anyone else is, but even a broken clock is right twice a day. Our schools and colleges have to come back pretty much like normal. Have to.

I've known quite a few teachers who say they can't do their jobs as long as distance learning and extreme social distancing remain in force.

Also, a few schools in Montana did come back on May 7, and were somewhat close to normal. They didn't have any problems.

In a world where the American government was functioning at least mildly well to handle the pandemic, sure.

In our current reality? Nope.

[KaiserDave]

Im not as extreme as Trump on this but remote learning is devastating, especially for elementary and middle schoolers, it has to end. For colleges sure I get it, but nowhere else.

[Florida Man for Crime]

As I mentioned when cases started to surge in the South/Southwest and some people were saying "oh, but the new infections are youngs, so it doesn't matter," it was inevitable that over time the median age of new infections would rise to more closely match the general population. Even though irresponsible youngs may initially be more likely to be exposed to the virus at bars/restaurants/gatherings/etc, they inevitably will come into contact with some older co-workers, family members, and older members of the general public in various ways, and then they spread the virus to those older people.

Here is some data from Florida (presumably other states tell a similar story, but I haven't seen data from them) which shows that exactly that has been occurring. Over the past 2 weeks, the median age of new infections has steadily risen from about 33 to about 40:



This is one factor that will inevitably lead the # of deaths to go up as long as cases continue to go up, and which will exert upward pressure on the fatality rate as well.


Another important thing that we should keep in mind at this point is that even though testing is much more widely available than it was a few months ago, the # of infections has risen by enough that testing capacity is starting to once again come under strain and to be a limiting factor. Labs are having technical problems processing all the tests and in many places larger backlogs and delays in reporting are occurring due to various limitations on the ability to scale things up. This is in addition to the long lines etc that have been observed at numerous testing sites. And since the Federal Government is not really putting much effort under Trump into fixing these issues, things won't necessarily improve very quickly, if at all.

Here is a good article explaining some of these problems that have been occurring:

A Dire Warning From COVID-19 Test Providers
U.S. coronavirus testing could fail again, as surging demand creates new backlogs and delays.

The delays have already started. Yesterday, Quest Diagnostics, one of the country’s largest medical-testing companies, said that its systems were overwhelmed and that it would now be able to deliver COVID-19 test results in one day only for hospitalized patients, patients facing emergency surgery, and symptomatic health-care workers. Everyone else now must wait three to five days for a test result.

“Despite the rapid expansion of our testing capacity, demand for testing has been growing faster,” Quest said in a statement last week warning of such a possibility. The company then said that orders for COVID-19 testing had grown by 50 percent in three weeks.

“This is very bad,” Michael Mina, an epidemiology professor at Harvard, told us. Rapid test-turnaround times are the only way to control the coronavirus without forcing every potentially contagious person—everyone who’s had contact with someone diagnosed with COVID-19—into quarantine, he said: “Our modeling efforts more or less show that if you don’t get results back in a day or so, outbreaks really can’t be stopped without isolating and quarantining all contacts preemptively.”

Quest is not the only firm to report growing problems. “We hit the wall three weeks ago,” Jon Cohen, the executive chairman of BioReference Laboratories, a lab-services company that is testing patients for the virus in New York, New Jersey, and Florida, told us. “At that point, most laboratories were already running at capacity, as far as I can tell.”

The upshot of this is that due to limitations with testing capacity, at a certain point we should expect the # of confirmed cases to stop going up as quickly - even if the virus is spreading just as fast as before - simply because it will be limited by testing capacity and backlogs. This means that at a certain point we should stop paying as much attention to raw #s of confirmed cases and more attention to the positivity rate. We will only know that things are getting better if the positivity rate starts to decline, and even if positive cases reach a plateau, things will still be getting worse as long as the positivity rate continues to rise.

[GeorgiaModerate]

https://twitter.com/darth/status/1280883119860486144

[Florida Man for Crime]

So if I get covfefe'd or get have any other emergency, I'm finksed?

Don't go rock climbing and don't get into a car accident etc at the moment.

[Florida Man for Crime]

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1280853299600789505

South Korea and Israel opened schools, and then had to re-close them after they caused outbreaks...

The reality is it is simply not going to be viable to open schools in many places (there will be variation across localities of course). Attempting to force schools to re-open regardless of conditions will simply result in a worsening of the epidemic and then the schools re-closing after a bit of time has elapsed, similarly to how many bars/restaurants/etc have started re-closing after they were re-opened under un-safe conditions.

Insofar as schools can be opened, there ought to be much more discussion of having all classes outdoors. Similarly to a far greater degree, various essential proceedings should be being held outdoors if they have to be held at all, much like in the 1918 pandemic how court hearings were held outdoors.

[Florida Man for Crime]

Unless and until the virus is actually controlled, the economy is not going to fully recover:



Things are getting worse economically again due to the renewed uncontrolled outbreak in the USA.

Re-opening without first controlling the virus is like optimistically throwing a boomerang out into the world with edges as sharp as a knife and then being surprised when the boomerang comes back and slices your head off.