Israel General Discussion: The Return of the Rotation Government

[Hnv1]

Just out of curiosity, on a scale of 1 to 10, how close is Avigdor Lieberman to the old Russian organised crime networks? Is there any political backlash/ethnic stereotyping the other way from religious types who view him and his community as ''not real Jews''?

1/ who knows? there were some suspicious evidence in his court case (like his driver who took the money vanished in Russia and some burned body in the Ukraine was found with his passport on him with the passport in good shape). or links to dodgy figures in Russia and the Serbian Republic in Bosnia. but who really knows? I wouldn't rule it out but I wouldn't put him down as a soldier as well.
2/ of course there is. that's what enabled him to break the chains that locked him in the right bloc since 2009.

[Zinneke]

Just out of curiosity, on a scale of 1 to 10, how close is Avigdor Lieberman to the old Russian organised crime networks? Is there any political backlash/ethnic stereotyping the other way from religious types who view him and his community as ''not real Jews''?

1/ who knows? there were some suspicious evidence in his court case (like his driver who took the money vanished in Russia and some burned body in the Ukraine was found with his passport on him with the passport in good shape). or links to dodgy figures in Russia and the Serbian Republic in Bosnia. but who really knows? I wouldn't rule it out but I wouldn't put him down as a soldier as well.

Wow. Also wasn´t there a party in the 90s also with the initials YB but the B stood for something else, and it was basically a front for the Russian Mafia in Israel?

Edit : found it https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yisrael_BaAliyah

2/ of course there is. that's what enabled him to break the chains that locked him in the right bloc since 2009.

Do they specifically single out Russian Jews though (as opposed to Secular Jews in general)?

[Hnv1]

Just out of curiosity, on a scale of 1 to 10, how close is Avigdor Lieberman to the old Russian organised crime networks? Is there any political backlash/ethnic stereotyping the other way from religious types who view him and his community as ''not real Jews''?

1/ who knows? there were some suspicious evidence in his court case (like his driver who took the money vanished in Russia and some burned body in the Ukraine was found with his passport on him with the passport in good shape). or links to dodgy figures in Russia and the Serbian Republic in Bosnia. but who really knows? I wouldn't rule it out but I wouldn't put him down as a soldier as well.

Wow. Also wasn´t there a party in the 90s also with the initials YB but the B stood for something else, and it was basically a front for the Russian Mafia in Israel?

Edit : found it https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yisrael_BaAliyah

2/ of course there is. that's what enabled him to break the chains that locked him in the right bloc since 2009.

Do they specifically single out Russian Jews though (as opposed to Secular Jews in general)?

Yisrael Baliah wasn’t a mafia cover, they were a pure sectarian party for Russians led by Sheranski who was many things but not a wise guy. Eventually assimilated into Likud (Edelstein came from there).

Shas singles out Russians on several occasions. UTJ care less as their constituents don’t marry every busty willing blonde Russian girl.

[Zinneke]

Just out of curiosity, on a scale of 1 to 10, how close is Avigdor Lieberman to the old Russian organised crime networks? Is there any political backlash/ethnic stereotyping the other way from religious types who view him and his community as ''not real Jews''?

1/ who knows? there were some suspicious evidence in his court case (like his driver who took the money vanished in Russia and some burned body in the Ukraine was found with his passport on him with the passport in good shape). or links to dodgy figures in Russia and the Serbian Republic in Bosnia. but who really knows? I wouldn't rule it out but I wouldn't put him down as a soldier as well.

Wow. Also wasn´t there a party in the 90s also with the initials YB but the B stood for something else, and it was basically a front for the Russian Mafia in Israel?

Edit : found it https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yisrael_BaAliyah

2/ of course there is. that's what enabled him to break the chains that locked him in the right bloc since 2009.

Do they specifically single out Russian Jews though (as opposed to Secular Jews in general)?

Yisrael Baliah wasn’t a mafia cover, they were a pure sectarian party for Russians led by Sheranski who was many things but not a wise guy. Eventually assimilated into Likud (Edelstein came from there).

Shas singles out Russians on several occasions. UTJ care less as their constituents don’t marry every busty willing blonde Russian girl.

Shas constituents marry blonde Russian girls?! Surely not the Haredi?

[Hnv1]

Just out of curiosity, on a scale of 1 to 10, how close is Avigdor Lieberman to the old Russian organised crime networks? Is there any political backlash/ethnic stereotyping the other way from religious types who view him and his community as ''not real Jews''?

1/ who knows? there were some suspicious evidence in his court case (like his driver who took the money vanished in Russia and some burned body in the Ukraine was found with his passport on him with the passport in good shape). or links to dodgy figures in Russia and the Serbian Republic in Bosnia. but who really knows? I wouldn't rule it out but I wouldn't put him down as a soldier as well.

Wow. Also wasn´t there a party in the 90s also with the initials YB but the B stood for something else, and it was basically a front for the Russian Mafia in Israel?

Edit : found it https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yisrael_BaAliyah

2/ of course there is. that's what enabled him to break the chains that locked him in the right bloc since 2009.

Do they specifically single out Russian Jews though (as opposed to Secular Jews in general)?

Yisrael Baliah wasn’t a mafia cover, they were a pure sectarian party for Russians led by Sheranski who was many things but not a wise guy. Eventually assimilated into Likud (Edelstein came from there).

Shas singles out Russians on several occasions. UTJ care less as their constituents don’t marry every busty willing blonde Russian girl.

Shas constituents marry blonde Russian girls?! Surely not the Haredi?

Of course not, but the the traditionalists do (“half Moroccan half Russian”). The Russian are no pushover themselves and their local media is full of racist writing against the natives especially the Sephardi. Though Russian women are more likely to marry Sephardi then Ashkenazi men.

Israel is a great lab experiment in anthropology really

[Hnv1]

Yamina going to the opposition claiming they want to create a right wing opposition to this left government. It might have been perceived as sincere had we not known that Yamina would have happily got in with 1-2 more ministerial positions.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Yamina going to the opposition claiming they want to create a right wing opposition to this left government.

Bye Felicia.

[America Needs R'hllor]

Yamina going to the opposition! Great news. Just to understand to lengths to which Bibi had to go to get rid of them- he offered them the chairmanship of the Committee for Public Complaints. Now Bibi is free to distribute more Ministries among his people, including possibly Health or Education (which I'm still hoping KL will take).

Also, Gantz is giving Yoaz H*ndel an important ministry- Communications. I'd add that this is one of the ministries most important to Bibi. Lol

Do they specifically single out Russian Jews though (as opposed to Secular Jews in general)?

I'd just like to add my two cents as an Israeli Russian- first, the Russian community in Israel definitely isn't some crime nexus, and Sharansky's party was just a normal secterian party (that sadly wasn't able to permanently wrest control of the Home Ministry from Shas.

As for Shas, I'll start by saying that yes, there's a lot of racism in the Russian community- against Arabs, against Ethiopian Jews, and against Sephardic Jews. It often makes me ashamed to be a Russian. But Shas is are a real racist party- there's no election in which they don't use dog whistles or active racism against Russians. One instance was when they made an ad in which a "proper Jewish Sephardic guy" is marrying a "blonde Russian woman" who turns to be non-Jewish, as a warning on the "dangers" of easy conversion to Judaism for these Russians (who are x100 times the patriots and x100 times more helpful to Israel than Shas' base, but I digress). Last time, Deri said that "you can't walk in the Immigration Ministry without knowing Russian" and promised to demand that protfolio in the government (a promise that since disappeared). He also promoted a disgusting idea of checking the DNA of Russian immigrants to ensure that they do have Jewish roots, saying that "unfortunately we have hundreds of thousands of non Jews admitted [from Russia]".

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Why does Bibi care about Communications so much?

[Hnv1]

Why does Bibi care about Communications so much?

The media market in Israel is very small since the collapse of partisan newspapers in the 80's and 90's, Bibi and the Right feels the media is controlled by the left or something like the "liberal media". Which, even if it was a correct statement 20 years ago (big if), is clearly false this days.

Bibi felt his fall in 99 had a lot to do with the entire media standing against him and since his rise to power in 2009 is trying to push a right wing populist (and dumbed down) outlets like Edelson's paper and channel 20.

honestly, his crusade went beyond rational and has probably a lot to do with his wife sensitivities with media criticism

[America Needs R'hllor]

Why does Bibi care about Communications so much?

Communications is the ministry responsible for media sources such as radio and television. Bibi is absolutely obsessed with the media- two of his corruption cases include favourable regulations for media barons in exchange for favourable coverage of him and his family, he's being pushing for years (increasingly successfully) to put mindless puppets in maintream media channels, he has a whole newspaper gifted to him by Sheldon Adelson which is pretty much a propaganda outlet, he's been keeping the Communication Ministry to himself for several years until the courts forced him to hand it out (he gave it to loyal soldier David Amsalem). There's a mountain of evidence of how he and his family were extremely petty in how they wanted to influence media coverage, for example his wife demanding nicer pictures of her and smearing the wife of his rival, Bennet.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Why does Bibi care about Communications so much?

The media market in Israel is very small since the collapse of partisan newspapers in the 80's and 90's, Bibi and the Right feels the media is controlled by the left or something like the "liberal media". Which, even if it was a correct statement 20 years ago (big if), is clearly false this days.

Bibi felt his fall in 99 had a lot to do with the entire media standing against him and since his rise to power in 2009 is trying to push a right wing populist (and dumbed down) outlets like Edelson's paper and channel 20.

honestly, his crusade went beyond rational and has probably a lot to do with his wife sensitivities with media criticism

How much of Bibi's worries here about losing the media are rooted in unjustified paranoia and how much is rooted in actual risk?
Does he fear that the possibility of the media going full-on nuking his image over indictment is a risk so grave he needs to do the most he can to avert it?

[Hnv1]

Why does Bibi care about Communications so much?

The media market in Israel is very small since the collapse of partisan newspapers in the 80's and 90's, Bibi and the Right feels the media is controlled by the left or something like the "liberal media". Which, even if it was a correct statement 20 years ago (big if), is clearly false this days.

Bibi felt his fall in 99 had a lot to do with the entire media standing against him and since his rise to power in 2009 is trying to push a right wing populist (and dumbed down) outlets like Edelson's paper and channel 20.

honestly, his crusade went beyond rational and has probably a lot to do with his wife sensitivities with media criticism

How much of Bibi's worries here about losing the media are rooted in unjustified paranoia and how much is rooted in actual risk?
Does he fear that the possibility of the media going full-on nuking his image over indictment is a risk so grave he needs to do the most he can to avert it?

we are ex post here, the media already went nuclear and has been critical for years (though less then in the past), and behold his voters don't really care. hence there's nothing here over and above his personal desire to be framed as one of the greatest, some childish want of acknowledgement. I assume he never thought that perhaps is overt emphasis on media pictures and spins is the reason the media dislikes him.

[Zinneke]

Yamina going to the opposition! Great news. Just to understand to lengths to which Bibi had to go to get rid of them- he offered them the chairmanship of the Committee for Public Complaints. Now Bibi is free to distribute more Ministries among his people, including possibly Health or Education (which I'm still hoping KL will take).

Also, Gantz is giving Yoaz H*ndel an important ministry- Communications. I'd add that this is one of the ministries most important to Bibi. Lol

Do they specifically single out Russian Jews though (as opposed to Secular Jews in general)?

I'd just like to add my two cents as an Israeli Russian- first, the Russian community in Israel definitely isn't some crime nexus, and Sharansky's party was just a normal secterian party (that sadly wasn't able to permanently wrest control of the Home Ministry from Shas.

As for Shas, I'll start by saying that yes, there's a lot of racism in the Russian community- against Arabs, against Ethiopian Jews, and against Sephardic Jews. It often makes me ashamed to be a Russian. But Shas is areal racist party- there's no election in which they don't use dog whistles or active racism against Russians. One instance was when they made an ad in which a "proper Jewish Sephardic guy" is marrying a "blonde Russian woman" who turns to be non-Jewish, as a warning on the "dangers" of easy conversion to Judaism for these Russians (who are x100 times the patriots and x100 times more helpful to Israel than Shas' base, but I digress). Last time, Deri said that "you can't walk in the Immigration Ministry without knowing Russian" and promised to demand that protfolio in the government (a promise that since disappeared). He also promoted a disgusting idea of checking the DNA of Russian immigrants to ensure that they do have Jewish roots, saying that "unfortunately we have hundreds of thousands of non Jews admitted [from Russia]".

Thanks for your insight. I'm sorry if I came across as implying Russian Jews were all criminals. There's now a sizeable amount of organised criminals who are non-Russian too, some of whom have infiltrated the Likud. I am starting to realise though why YB broke away so easily from the Hasidic parties.

Could you link the Shas ad? It seems almost surreal, but then Shaked's ad did too

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Why does Bibi care about Communications so much?

The media market in Israel is very small since the collapse of partisan newspapers in the 80's and 90's, Bibi and the Right feels the media is controlled by the left or something like the "liberal media". Which, even if it was a correct statement 20 years ago (big if), is clearly false this days.

Bibi felt his fall in 99 had a lot to do with the entire media standing against him and since his rise to power in 2009 is trying to push a right wing populist (and dumbed down) outlets like Edelson's paper and channel 20.

honestly, his crusade went beyond rational and has probably a lot to do with his wife sensitivities with media criticism

How much of Bibi's worries here about losing the media are rooted in unjustified paranoia and how much is rooted in actual risk?
Does he fear that the possibility of the media going full-on nuking his image over indictment is a risk so grave he needs to do the most he can to avert it?

we are ex post here, the media already went nuclear and has been critical for years (though less then in the past), and behold his voters don't really care. hence there's nothing here over and above his personal desire to be framed as one of the greatest, some childish want of acknowledgement. I assume he never thought that perhaps is overt emphasis on media pictures and spins is the reason the media dislikes him.

Is that so?
I guess I thought too much of the guy.
I never knew about this side of Bibi.
Was he always like this, post-1999?

[America Needs R'hllor]

Thanks for your insight. I'm sorry if I came across as implying Russian Jews were all criminals. There's now a sizeable amount of organised criminals who are non-Russian too, some of whom have infiltrated the Likud. I am starting to realise though why YB broke away so easily from the Hasidic parties.

Could you link the Shas ad? It seems almost surreal, but then Shaked's ad did too

No worries, it's just that there's a lot of stereotyping in Israel so I had to clear that up a bit

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5wCALTOhCU

Holy sh**t, it's worse than I remembered. The woman's accent is really extreme, she speaks half in Russian as if Russians can't speak normal Hebrew, and the guy exclaims "you're not a Jew?!" in the end.

Also includes the hypocricy in the smug treatment some mizrahi Jews give Russians: the sentence "keeping the Jewish tradition" in that ad, while playing an Arab song. Treating us and our heritage as alien and non-Jewish while keeping their heritage, which also has some parts that are decidedly non-Jewish. Not that I have a problem with this.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Thanks for your insight. I'm sorry if I came across as implying Russian Jews were all criminals. There's now a sizeable amount of organised criminals who are non-Russian too, some of whom have infiltrated the Likud. I am starting to realise though why YB broke away so easily from the Hasidic parties.

Could you link the Shas ad? It seems almost surreal, but then Shaked's ad did too

No worries, it's just that there's a lot of stereotyping in Israel so I had to clear that up a bit

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5wCALTOhCU

Holy sh**t, it's worse than I remembered. The woman's accent is really extreme, she speaks half in Russian as if Russians can't speak normal Hebrew, and the guy exclaims "you're not a Jew?!" in the end.

Also includes the hypocricy in the smug treatment some mizrahi Jews give Russians: the sentence "keeping the Jewish tradition" in that ad, while playing an Arab song. Treating us and our heritage as alien and non-Jewish while keeping their heritage, which also has some parts that are decidedly non-Jewish. Not that I have a problem with this.

three things.
1, the russian accent is so thick I could notice it and I don't even know any Hebrew besides Shalom. I guess they really wanted to go all the way with the ridicolousness.
2, look at the like-dislike ratio. 306 likes, 1,957 dislikes. Ouch.
3, all this really gives me the vibe Shas are a nasty party, even by the standards of Isreali politics.

[America Needs R'hllor]

3, all this really gives me the vibe Shas are a nasty party, even by the standards of Isreali politics.

They're just basically a cult. I worked in a polling place in the April election, and one woman who came from another city came looking for a polling place where you could vote as an absentee. She was distressed because "it's a sacred obligation to vote Shas". They use their dead Rabbie, Ovadia Yossef, who was really popular, in all their ads, telling voters that he's "looking from above" and that they have to vote Shas for him. They also sold charms against covid-19 last time and other "blessings" every election. Not to mention the fact that their leader served a jail sentence for corruption and is now due to be indicted again.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

3, all this really gives me the vibe Shas are a nasty party, even by the standards of Isreali politics.

They're just basically a cult. I worked in a polling place in the April election, and one woman who came from another city came looking for a polling place where you could vote as an absentee. She was distressed because "it's a sacred obligation to vote Shas". They use their dead Rabbie, Ovadia Yossef, who was really popular, in all their ads, telling voters that he's "looking from above" and that they have to vote Shas for him. They also sold charms against covid-19 last time and other "blessings" every election. Not to mention the fact that their leader served a jail sentence for corruption and is now due to be indicted again.

I'm laughing at the the irony that they attack Russians for mafia stuff while they are basically THE mafia in Isreali politics, due to their exceptional corruption. Is that bad?

[America Needs R'hllor]

3, all this really gives me the vibe Shas are a nasty party, even by the standards of Isreali politics.

They're just basically a cult. I worked in a polling place in the April election, and one woman who came from another city came looking for a polling place where you could vote as an absentee. She was distressed because "it's a sacred obligation to vote Shas". They use their dead Rabbie, Ovadia Yossef, who was really popular, in all their ads, telling voters that he's "looking from above" and that they have to vote Shas for him. They also sold charms against covid-19 last time and other "blessings" every election. Not to mention the fact that their leader served a jail sentence for corruption and is now due to be indicted again.

I'm laughing at the the irony that they attack Russians for mafia stuff while they are basically THE mafia in Isreali politics, due to their exceptional corruption. Is that bad?

Well, they have no organzied or violent crime connections that I know of. Generally, mafia stuff isn't really an issue in Israeli politics (save pershaps for instances like the witnesses in Lieberman's trial, um, disappearing). But I think it's an accurate assessment that both Shas and YB represent the bad sides of their sects and not the good (sadly, I think this can be said for a lot of sectarial parties- the Haredim, the religious zionists, even the Arabs to an extent).

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Oh I meant that Shas was the personification of corruption in Isreali politics, evenmoreso than Bibi. They have been basically in 95% of the governments (dunno the exact figure, so treat the 95% here as a figure of speech), and have done an exceptionally skillful job at enriching themselves.
And that is mafia-like.

[Zinneke]

3, all this really gives me the vibe Shas are a nasty party, even by the standards of Isreali politics.

They're just basically a cult. I worked in a polling place in the April election, and one woman who came from another city came looking for a polling place where you could vote as an absentee. She was distressed because "it's a sacred obligation to vote Shas". They use their dead Rabbie, Ovadia Yossef, who was really popular, in all their ads, telling voters that he's "looking from above" and that they have to vote Shas for him. They also sold charms against covid-19 last time and other "blessings" every election. Not to mention the fact that their leader served a jail sentence for corruption and is now due to be indicted again.

I'm laughing at the the irony that they attack Russians for mafia stuff while they are basically THE mafia in Isreali politics, due to their exceptional corruption. Is that bad?

Well, they have no organzied or violent crime connections that I know of. Generally, mafia stuff isn't really an issue in Israeli politics (save pershaps for instances like the witnesses in Lieberman's trial, um, disappearing). But I think it's an accurate assessment that both Shas and YB represent the bad sides of their sects and not the good (sadly, I think this can be said for a lot of sectarial parties- the Haredim, the religious zionists, even the Arabs to an extent).

There's some pretty serious allegations in Misha Glenny's book McMafia (which led to be interested in how Russian Jews are perceived) that Likud was infiltrated by organised crime.

After Dubai, Israel is the next money laundering capital of the Middle East...

[America Needs R'hllor]

3, all this really gives me the vibe Shas are a nasty party, even by the standards of Isreali politics.

They're just basically a cult. I worked in a polling place in the April election, and one woman who came from another city came looking for a polling place where you could vote as an absentee. She was distressed because "it's a sacred obligation to vote Shas". They use their dead Rabbie, Ovadia Yossef, who was really popular, in all their ads, telling voters that he's "looking from above" and that they have to vote Shas for him. They also sold charms against covid-19 last time and other "blessings" every election. Not to mention the fact that their leader served a jail sentence for corruption and is now due to be indicted again.

I'm laughing at the the irony that they attack Russians for mafia stuff while they are basically THE mafia in Isreali politics, due to their exceptional corruption. Is that bad?

Well, they have no organzied or violent crime connections that I know of. Generally, mafia stuff isn't really an issue in Israeli politics (save pershaps for instances like the witnesses in Lieberman's trial, um, disappearing). But I think it's an accurate assessment that both Shas and YB represent the bad sides of their sects and not the good (sadly, I think this can be said for a lot of sectarial parties- the Haredim, the religious zionists, even the Arabs to an extent).

There's some pretty serious allegations in Misha Glenny's book McMafia (which led to be interested in how Russian Jews are perceived) that Likud was infiltrated by organised crime.

After Dubai, Israel is the next money laundering capital of the Middle East...

Interesting. Might be telling that I didn't know much about this, despite living here and being pretty knowledgeable about our politics. We're definitely due for a cleanup, that's for sure. From Labour to Likud and from the JL to the Haredim, many parties have some shady stuff.

Oh I meant that Shas was the personification of corruption in Isreali politics, evenmoreso than Bibi. They have been basically in 95% of the governments (dunno the exact figure, so treat the 95% here as a figure of speech), and have done an exceptionally skillful job at enriching themselves.
And that is mafia-like.

Ah, agreed there.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

What would be needed to clean up Isreali politics?

[Hnv1]

3, all this really gives me the vibe Shas are a nasty party, even by the standards of Isreali politics.

They're just basically a cult. I worked in a polling place in the April election, and one woman who came from another city came looking for a polling place where you could vote as an absentee. She was distressed because "it's a sacred obligation to vote Shas". They use their dead Rabbie, Ovadia Yossef, who was really popular, in all their ads, telling voters that he's "looking from above" and that they have to vote Shas for him. They also sold charms against covid-19 last time and other "blessings" every election. Not to mention the fact that their leader served a jail sentence for corruption and is now due to be indicted again.

I'm laughing at the the irony that they attack Russians for mafia stuff while they are basically THE mafia in Isreali politics, due to their exceptional corruption. Is that bad?

Well, they have no organzied or violent crime connections that I know of. Generally, mafia stuff isn't really an issue in Israeli politics (save pershaps for instances like the witnesses in Lieberman's trial, um, disappearing). But I think it's an accurate assessment that both Shas and YB represent the bad sides of their sects and not the good (sadly, I think this can be said for a lot of sectarial parties- the Haredim, the religious zionists, even the Arabs to an extent).

There's some pretty serious allegations in Misha Glenny's book McMafia (which led to be interested in how Russian Jews are perceived) that Likud was infiltrated by organised crime.

After Dubai, Israel is the next money laundering capital of the Middle East...

Seems like a sensationalist claim to me (as well every organized crime allegation ever). Considering Income Tax Authority in Israel is pretty tough and strong.

Organized crime in Israel is very low scale and very low-fi. Likudniks definitely have some ties to criminals, but they're petty criminals.

Part for holding houses in Israel, Russian mobsters don't seem to be money laundering here in a large scale