Minor Party Primaries Results and Discussion

[PSOL]

New Mexico Constitution Party also rejects Blankenship in favor of Samm Tittle

As I've posted elsewhere, would've been really interested to consider who could've tried an Amash/Ventura outsider celebrity bid to take over the CP, as it seems like along with the Greens and the Libertarians they are also experiencing a controversial sweep.

You failed to mention that the VP candidate is going to be J.W. Fakes creating a Tittle-Fakes ticket.  

Speaking of which, J.W. Fakes appears to be a little wacko. I wonder if the Virginia CP will follow suit in supporting this ticket, or if they're sticking with the not running Amash. (Edit: they are) Even if the Greens and Libertarians aren't schisming this year (TBD), at least we're seeing one national third party do so!

I think Libertarians are gonna crash relative to Johnson, and Greens will dip a little too. The moves by Hawkins suggest to me that the Greens and SPUSA could merge if he stays powerful within the party. Considering that the SPUSA is pretty small now it wouldn't be huge but...

I would have to disagree on a merger with SPUSA. The fact of the matter is that even with both parties being big tents, the green liberals and new agers would not work well with standard democratic socialist politicians numbering ~2-3k members on top of the watermelons. That would cause a split.

Anyway, in no small part is the cross endorsement a sign of a merger. It fits well in the tradition of a popular front in which different factions put aside their differences to work together in leftist terminology, and that really only applies to possibly the 30% of GPUS voters that include a lot of watermelons that Support this move. The Socialist party, like other leftwing political outfits, are facing a surge of new members and a more positive reception from the likes of the American public, especially moreso given that SPUSA is made up of young twenty-somethings espousing a vague platform that while has a lot of activists, just say they are “democratic” and believe in socialism. Thank Bernie Sanders for that.

The #1 piece of evidence that puts this theory to bed is the existence of The Socialist, their new newsletter still in its infancy from all looks of it.

[PSOL]

I wonder what the Greens/SPUSA think of the PSL/PFP, dueling popular fronts and united fronts

I have yet to hear any trash talking on their official means of communications. There probably are flame wars and nastiness on the more informal surrogates on Twitter, but nothing official. Maybe as the race goes on, the race will start to get heated as they’ll ultimately come to brawls for key sectors in invaluable states both are running on officially, namely California and Vermont.

[PSOL]

Liberty Union Party Nominates Gloria La Riva for President

The La Riva-Peltier ticket now has access to the ballots in California and Vermont.

This is ultimately a bad sign for Howie Hawkins. Not only will the vote be split in two states where there is a huge population of democratic socialists and other leftists willing to vote for him, but he has failed in forming an “independent, nonsectarian left” front. The only question is why, why did two clearly democratic socialist parties choose the PSL’s Gloria La Riva/Leonard Peltier ticket over a person influenced by communalist ideology?

Looks like the vote of the left is going to be very much split between the GPUS/SPUSA/Solidarity front, PSL/LUP/PFP front, the Socialist Action party, and the irrelevant cult of the SEP so far. That isn’t accounting for what the DSA will do as a backup plan later in the race, or if SAlt runs their own candidate.

[PSOL]

I think the DSA will either endorse Hawkins or not endorse at all. I don't think they'd endorse La Riva, she's an ML isn't she?

She’s apart of the most controversial orthodox Marxist-Leninist group in the United States, yes.

Strongly doubt that the DSA will formally endorse either Hawkins or La Riva. The DSA takes endorsements seriously and wants them to mean something — no point in endorsing (which the DSA uses to mean putting financial and organizing resources behind a candidate, not just providing a stamp of approval) a third-party presidential candidate who's going to be mostly irrelevant.

Read: they’re opportunists who want to keep getting on the gravy train of elected office. For all the talk of the PSL being a sectarian, insular organization or the Green Party being a mess of a party, the DSA manages to combine the worst attributes by remaining silent on Joe Biden while still claiming to one day break away.

You know what makes a candidate really irrelevant? It’s not having backup, and the fact that the Democratic Socialists of America won’t aide the only major independent democratic socialist running for president as part of a popular front puts them right where the now social democratic CPUSA are, either cowards, opportunists, plants, or odd sectarians who lack solidarity.

What’s worse is that given GPUS + SPUSA have around 250k and 1.5k members respectively along with 131 elected officials, how exactly then is the HH/ANW campaign irrelevant?

Now the PSL/LUP/PFP ticket I can see why it wouldn’t be endorsed by the DSA, given that the PSL are an orthodox ML and clannish party the likes of which match their predecessors. Working them on the ballot would make no sense given the possible blowback from the media and their own base. But HH/ANW has no excuse chief.

So now that we only have one more "major" third party nomination to go, any bets on who will be at the inevitable fringe third party presidential debate, and who will win that?

Hawkins vs. Jorgensen vs. Blankenship vs. de la Fuente

Probably who appeared at the last Free and Equal debate plus Max Abramson—so like Brian Carrol of the ASP and the Transhumanist party candidate.

[PSOL]

Strongly doubt that the DSA will formally endorse either Hawkins or La Riva. The DSA takes endorsements seriously and wants them to mean something — no point in endorsing (which the DSA uses to mean putting financial and organizing resources behind a candidate, not just providing a stamp of approval) a third-party presidential candidate who's going to be mostly irrelevant.

Read: they’re opportunists who want to keep getting on the gravy train of elected office.

Yes, the DSA is focused on winning local and state races while building a rank-and-file union movement. Not sure that either of those qualify as a "gravy train" (even in Chicago, being an alderman isn't what it once was). Also not sure how that makes them "opportunists."

It means still allowing the Democratic Party to be passive in allowing DSA candidates to run in safe districts without much trouble. It also means being able to participate in AFL-CIO union elections without much trouble as well from the upper echelons as long as they stay loyal. The DSA from the looks of it seems unwilling to do anything more then act as an entryist pressure group inside the Democratic Party.

I can think of lots of other things that make candidates irrelevant! You're using the phrase "popular front" like this is Europe in the 30s, but the conditions in America now are entirely different — there is no major left-wing campaign in this election and no hope of building one. Whether a "popular front" includes five or seven fairly minor groups will not impact that outcome.

I’m aware of the current conditions in the United States isn’t ready for a mass Left party, certainly one independent of the Democratic Party. However, not building such a movement now is inane given that time and time again, siding with the Democratic Party or “establishment” across the Anglophone world is killer to any social movement. They’re just going to chew the DSA up and keep the organization as limited to a few pockets as possible.

Who would that be? I certainly haven't heard of any major candidates running for president to the left of one Joe Biden.

I’m speaking comparatively of the GPUS/SPUSA/Solidarity and PSL/PFP/LUP poles this election, the independent “major” third party tickets. You’ve heard of them.

Congratulations, you have a handful of school board members and a strong chance of getting as many votes as that McMuffin guy in 2016.

lol, like the DSA is somehow radically more relevant. The Green Party at least recently got the Democratic Party to adopt the ripped-off GND, what national legislation has the DSA put forth?

The goal is to pick fights you have a chance of winning. Sometimes that works, sometimes it doesn't, but the DSA's accomplished more in the last few years than decades of quixotic presidential campaigns. Don't blame people because they won't fight your losing battles.

Don’t blame anyone but this line of thinking when the solidly liberal Democratic Party kicks y’all to the curb when they don’t see a need for your kind anymore as a faction limited to safe districts to show the Democratic Party is a “big tent” and is “fair”. At some point, they’ll throw the DSA away like a wet noodle and close the gates for anything that whiffs of social democratic ideals with a spine, or anyone that may assert themselves that isn’t part of the ruling clique.

[PSOL]

So now that we only have one more "major" third party nomination to go, any bets on who will be at the inevitable fringe third party presidential debate, and who will win that?

Hawkins vs. Jorgensen vs. Blankenship vs. de la Fuente

Probably who appeared at the last Free and Equal debate plus Max Abramson—so like Brian Carrol of the ASP and the Transhumanist party candidate.

La Riva was present in the 2016 debate, forgot to mention to her. I think adding the ASP and the Transhumanists would dovetail nicely with my idea of how U.S. third parties "oughta" consolidate, but I don't know why they would get invited over any other randos like uhhh Mark Charles or J.R. Myers. I'm not sure if Free and Equal sends invites based on actual polling (which is pretty much impossible given how fringe third party candidates are), or ideological "balance", or just whomever has a website and seems willing to show up.

You’re missing what will happen to Trotskyists and Green Liberals in the linked post, otherwise I totally agree with you.

[PSOL]

1 & 2. Ayyy lmaoo bruh

3. I’m aware that AOC introduced it as something that looked good from inspiration of the Green Party plan cooked up in the 80s and in Dr. Jill Stein’s platform in 2016. I’m happy it’s in Congress, but let’s not kid ourselves where the inspiration of the introduced, cut down model came from

4. The Dems are going to shrivel the DSA and anything radical in it quite soon if they haven’t already. Maybe they’ll keep the husk around or throw it away in time when they’re able to, but it will happen as history both in the far and recent past has shown.

It’s concerning to see an organization so decentralized yet growing, yet so clannish to the wider left like the DSA. If you can’t see the problem in not having solidarity with other groups outside of the Democratic Party and “Established” opposition, well, that’s your problem.

Oh yeah, and when the time is right, austerity and deregulation will be reintroduced getting rid of all the progress the DSA did as a byproduct.

Edit: you know, I wouldn’t really even bring this up if the DSA worked with other democratic socialist or social democratic organizations like, say, the GPUS/Solidarity/SPUSA electoral pole. The fact that they’re not, and the very closely aligned publication Jacobin doesn’t mention anyone else, reminds me awfully a lot like the co-opted Working Families Party who became Andrew Cuomo’s b••••.

[PSOL]

You seem furious that not every left-wing organization embraces the theory that the only way to build a movement is by running futile presidential campaigns. Perhaps if that strategy had any success to show for it, you would be able to make a more persuasive case. Unfortunately...

lol, in no way was I suggesting that. I just find it very bad that the DSA has no solidarity.

It’s actually going to be kinda depressing seeing the DSA go the way of the Working Families Party in that they became undeniable b••••es to the neoliberal establishment, but it won’t come out of the blue, and sticking your head in the sand and going lalalala ain’t changing reality bruh.

Perhaps the most telling thing is that the most arch-defender of the status quo, BRTD, recommended your post. That’s a sign I’m in the right, among other more concrete examples.

[PSOL]

Liberty Union Party Nominates Gloria La Riva for President

The La Riva-Peltier ticket now has access to the ballots in California and Vermont.

This is ultimately a bad sign for Howie Hawkins. Not only will the vote be split in two states where there is a huge population of democratic socialists and other leftists willing to vote for him, but he has failed in forming an “independent, nonsectarian left” front. The only question is why, why did two clearly democratic socialist parties choose the PSL’s Gloria La Riva/Leonard Peltier ticket over a person influenced by communalist ideology?

Looks like the vote of the left is going to be very much split between the GPUS/SPUSA/Solidarity front, PSL/LUP/PFP front, the Socialist Action party, and the irrelevant cult of the SEP so far. That isn’t accounting for what the DSA will do as a backup plan later in the race, or if SAlt runs their own candidate.

Gloria La Riva on the Vermont Liberty Union Party ballot line in 2016 got 327 votes. By the standards of 3rd party electoral performance, that's bad. The Party for Socialism & Liberation owes its performance to the outsize influence of gaining the California Peace & Freedom Party ballot line which I think was about 86% of their total nationwide vote in 2016. The harm if any to Hawkins was done there. Remove the P&F ballot line, PSL was about on par with the Socialist Workers Party.

Yeesh, then the honest question one has to ask is why the Peace and Freedom Party or the LUP even let the PSL be on their ballots? Why not run alone, or join up like the two parties once were in the past? I guess the PSL and Leonard Peltier have a unique relationship with both parties, that’s the only reason I can see for why this keeps on happening.

[PSOL]

The Green Party has a bunch of radicals outside of the mainstream which shouldn't be in the mainstream, (faith healers, extreme 9/11 truthers (bush did 9/11), etc.).

FWIW, on the 2020 national ticket none of them are being represented this time. The 9/11 truther running now is at 6% in the primaries. The current ticket is basically Green Bernie/trade unionist.

Anyway, for all intensive purposes I expect the Reform party to die very, very soon. Not only is there really no reason for their existence, but they clearly have no party direction or organizational structure to handle such regional disputes as evident in the drama in Minnesota then and Florida now. It should just dissolve and let the centrist portions merge with the Alliance Party as the new testimonial centrist party.

[PSOL]

I think there are some that are sane.  Some of the American Solidarity people do.  I think a lot of the far-left parties nominate people that know they have no chance, but do it anyway to rail against the current establishment.

I have to disagree with this logic, especially now. With the two main leftist electoral tickets, they’re picking candidates that have wide reach and/or are representative of their beliefs.

Both Howie Hawkins and Angela Nicole Walker are trade unionists and have been apart of local campaigns beforehand. Howie Hawkins is an interesting figure in that his folksy accent and him being a Vietnam War veteran and a socialist is a glaring good electoral sign. He’s consistent and a veteran, something a lot of people admire, especially many WWC members for the last part. He’s also, imo, a very easy figure to cast as a “green Bernie” for disaffected voters from the Bernie camp in 2016 and 2020 much more then Jill Stein ever will be. Angela Nicole Walker than is a good balance as a female African American VP known in her pivotal home state of Wisconsin and now Florida. By all accounts, this is a much stronger ticket then a one-note politician, the new age loon known as Jill Stein and her irrelevant academic VP in 2016. Perfect for picking up the still-angry Bernie Sanders voters yet having the street cred for a traditional ticket of the Left.

On the Gloria La Riva/Leonard Peltier ticket, they’re definitely attracting a certain demographic as a ticket. Gloria La Riva has apparently good connections with the PFP and LUP to get on their tickets, and her past as a union member and A.N.S.W.E.R. activist has made her a and her party a known figure for better or worse. Leonard Peltier is a political prisoner and an AIM activist, perfect for what kind of voters this ticket is trying to acquire. This is not a ticket meant for wider audiences, and it’s obvious what route the PSL and Gloria La Riva are vying for. The PSL views itself as a vanguard party for orthodox revolutionary Marxist-Leninism, and in their minds an increase in votes on their permanent platform shows how solidified and successful they’ve done.

So yeah, for what they are, the Leftist tickets are obviously vying for a certain demographic of voters most likely to vote for them, and for Left-wing third parties trying to go for mass appeal is fools gold given voting patterns don’t allow for a #NeverSocialism or #NeverDemocrats centre-right demographic that votes Libertarian to even exist for these tickets.

[PSOL]

Save this for the next primary:

https://twitter.com/DemocratMachine/status/1268015324294594560

Who cares about them? they never managed to break a quarter of a million votes in any presidential election. part for aging paleo-conservatives and the far religious right this party is as relevant as Bob Avakian

Bob Avakian wishes to be as relevant as to have a few lackeys having power and commandeering 75,000 people to his glorified book club cult.

The next third 3rd party is up in the air it seems. We’re going to have to wait until a party surpasses the Constitution party in membership and electoral positions. So far, only the DSA has that mantle.

[PSOL]

Specifically regarding the presidency, DSA is sort of like a national version of the Working Families Party, I'd say. They're less like actual political parties that puts doomed third party presidential candidates on vanity campaigns, and more like wannabe kingmakers. I don't really see them replacing the Constitution Party in national races, because they're not interested in seeking ballot access.

I mean what other option is there;

• The American Solidarity party is too irrelevant and small, albeit growing
• Reform and most other centrist parties are too personality based and unstable to last in this political environment
• Most Alt-Right parties have collapsed or hitched themselves with the Republican Party
• The PSL and SAlt are growing as of late, but they only stand at a few thousand at most combined and SAlt only has the one council seat in Seattle

Look, as much as I dislike the “wannabe kingmaker” mentality and their current electoral tactics, they do help grow the wider organization in the short run. They’re the only relevant electoral organization out there right now that can surpass the major third parties. Who else can do that?

[PSOL]

I can answer a few questions you have. Firstly the DSA has numerically less officeholders and members  then the Green Party, Albeit most of the DSA politicians manage to enter upper legislatures and even the House of Representatives through AOC and Tlaib according to Wikipedia at this point. According to the Wiki, the Green Party has ~250,000 members and the DSA has 66,000 members. Compare this to the Libertarians sporting ~697,000 members, the Constitution Party sporting ~75,000 members and diminishing, and the social democratic and even Democratic collaborationist outfit more lacking a spine then the DSA which is CPUSA having 7,500 members, and SAlt having 1,000 members. Now these numbers mean nothing without context. The Green Party and SAlt have seen modest rises since 2012, while the Libertarians and especially the DSA have grown exponentially. Heck, the DSA has 1.5k members in 2015 and was stagnant till the rise of Bernie Sanders, so the rise is in itself telling. Of course, such a rise means that very few members are actually willing participants in electoral and direct activism work especially, but that’s a discussion for another time.

Ditto on the 2.5 party line

I have to immensely disagree that the Alliance party will go anywhere. In all honesty, most centrist parties are mostly lacking in a real base and are personality driven instead of based in the issues of constituents. I’m seeing a lot of parallels between the Reform party and Alliance, albeit it seems that they’re less of a one-man show sucking up all the oxygen then the former. My bet is either with a socialist party like the PSL or SAlt taking that mantle or the American Solidarity Party succeeding as a Christian Democratic Party. There are actually more real and stable bases of support for said parties; what with trade unionists, renters, immigrant rights activists, National Liberationists for suppressed marginalized ethnic groups, and homeless advocates forming the Left while the ASP has religious Americans of all stripes turned off from the rabid tone and authoritarianism more befitting of the elite more caring about $$$$ than “Christian” America. That brings in a lot of religious socially conservative Christian immigrants, middle class professionals like the VPH, and people not bigoted against ethic groups or different cultures as long as they are Christian and not deviating against norms set in the Bible, e.g. homosexuals.

It is fun to see and talk about the alternative political underbelly of this nation. However, in terms of electoral politics, I expect ballot restrictions would push a lot of people to doing more activism work outside of the Left. Currently, most socialist parties and organizations in America do more work in activism and protests, with an increasing penetration into the labor and student movement. So far, outside of the Left such mobilizations don’t happen or get sponsored by parties outside of the Republican Party like with the anti-Lockdown protests. I’m talking about things like the PSL’s anti-imperialism marches or the FRSO participating heavily in the Women’s march or convention protests. On another note, to people reliant on electoral success, I would guess electoral alliances or even mergers will be much more relevant in the future.

[PSOL]

More drama from the Libertarian Convention

[PSOL]

The Reform Party, along with the oddly comparatively sane few state chapters of the Constitution party, need to either close up shop or merge with the Alliance party. The era of Ross Perot or the other various personalities making up the Reform party has been dead for 15 years at best, and they’re political dinosaurs with no real base anymore but old timey populism. At least the Alliance party has a better defined platform and isn’t as much of a one-man band tagged along with interesting local personalities.

[PSOL]

The Reform Party, along with the oddly comparatively sane few state chapters of the Constitution party, need to either close up shop or merge with the Alliance party. The era of Ross Perot or the other various personalities making up the Reform party has been dead for 15 years at best, and they’re political dinosaurs with no real base anymore but old timey populism. At least the Alliance party has a better defined platform and isn’t as much of a one-man band tagged along with interesting local personalities.

I kind of figure that's the hope for some, considering the party's most recent gubernatorial nominee in Florida is the Alliance Party's VP nominee.

I'll give the party credit, the candidate Q&A throughout this week is better than what 3rd parties not named the Greens or Libertarians do.

And perhaps better than the Greens considering one of their candidates likes wearing a piece of paper saying "Love Live the Syrian Arab Republic"...

Ba’athist Rolde only got 6% of the primary vote. He’s already a nonfactor.

[PSOL]

So this is the end of the primaries for third parties, really the only thing left is for the nominee apparent in the Green Party to be declared so in the upcoming GNC.

[PSOL]

Things are heating up before the Green National Convention

[PSOL]

Here’s the official schedule for the upcoming GNC