Minor Party Primaries Results and Discussion

[walleye26]

Monds or Gray would have been great VP picks, I have no idea why Cohen got the VP slot. To be fair though, Gary Johnson did say there were some great people, and then some that are just bat**** crazy.

[DINGO Joe]

Monds or Gray would have been great VP picks, I have no idea why Cohen got the VP slot. To be fair though, Gary Johnson did say there were some great people, and then some that are just bat**** crazy.

So, picking Spike is meant to ensure that the bat**** wing of the party stays onboard?  A unity ticket.

[beaver2.0]

This may be a rude/offensive question, but are no-hope perennial candidates “all there?” People like De La Fuente, who keep running over and over again and always lose or other candidates who know they will get no where. Are they just too narcissistic/egotistic to check themselves? Or are they literally delusional?

I think there are some that are sane.  Some of the American Solidarity people do.  I think a lot of the far-left parties nominate people that know they have no chance, but do it anyway to rail against the current establishment.

[AltWorlder]

This may be a rude/offensive question, but are no-hope perennial candidates “all there?” People like De La Fuente, who keep running over and over again and always lose or other candidates who know they will get no where. Are they just too narcissistic/egotistic to check themselves? Or are they literally delusional?

From a political perspective, these people either are ideologically out of step with the American mainstream, or in the case of de la Fuente who appears to be a garden-variety liberal, procedurally out of step because he believes running quixotic third party or impossible primary campaigns are the way to amass political power. Personally speaking they also think that the country is truly missing their leadership, or that their non-mainstream attempts to gain power will really get anywhere.

That said, I can't say they're any less sane than those who choose to work in the mainstream two party system, because you see plenty of ideological, procedural, and personal psychoses there. If anything these third party nobodies are just more honest about it.

[AltWorlder]

That’s what I’m talking about. Do Libertarians even want to be taken seriously when they have candidates like Supreme and Cohen? Cuz nobody is gonna take them seriously with them. Enjoy your 0.5% of the popular vote LP.

Donald Trump is president, dear.

[PSOL]

The Green Party has a bunch of radicals outside of the mainstream which shouldn't be in the mainstream, (faith healers, extreme 9/11 truthers (bush did 9/11), etc.).

FWIW, on the 2020 national ticket none of them are being represented this time. The 9/11 truther running now is at 6% in the primaries. The current ticket is basically Green Bernie/trade unionist.

Anyway, for all intensive purposes I expect the Reform party to die very, very soon. Not only is there really no reason for their existence, but they clearly have no party direction or organizational structure to handle such regional disputes as evident in the drama in Minnesota then and Florida now. It should just dissolve and let the centrist portions merge with the Alliance Party as the new testimonial centrist party.

[PSOL]

I think there are some that are sane.  Some of the American Solidarity people do.  I think a lot of the far-left parties nominate people that know they have no chance, but do it anyway to rail against the current establishment.

I have to disagree with this logic, especially now. With the two main leftist electoral tickets, they’re picking candidates that have wide reach and/or are representative of their beliefs.

Both Howie Hawkins and Angela Nicole Walker are trade unionists and have been apart of local campaigns beforehand. Howie Hawkins is an interesting figure in that his folksy accent and him being a Vietnam War veteran and a socialist is a glaring good electoral sign. He’s consistent and a veteran, something a lot of people admire, especially many WWC members for the last part. He’s also, imo, a very easy figure to cast as a “green Bernie” for disaffected voters from the Bernie camp in 2016 and 2020 much more then Jill Stein ever will be. Angela Nicole Walker than is a good balance as a female African American VP known in her pivotal home state of Wisconsin and now Florida. By all accounts, this is a much stronger ticket then a one-note politician, the new age loon known as Jill Stein and her irrelevant academic VP in 2016. Perfect for picking up the still-angry Bernie Sanders voters yet having the street cred for a traditional ticket of the Left.

On the Gloria La Riva/Leonard Peltier ticket, they’re definitely attracting a certain demographic as a ticket. Gloria La Riva has apparently good connections with the PFP and LUP to get on their tickets, and her past as a union member and A.N.S.W.E.R. activist has made her a and her party a known figure for better or worse. Leonard Peltier is a political prisoner and an AIM activist, perfect for what kind of voters this ticket is trying to acquire. This is not a ticket meant for wider audiences, and it’s obvious what route the PSL and Gloria La Riva are vying for. The PSL views itself as a vanguard party for orthodox revolutionary Marxist-Leninism, and in their minds an increase in votes on their permanent platform shows how solidified and successful they’ve done.

So yeah, for what they are, the Leftist tickets are obviously vying for a certain demographic of voters most likely to vote for them, and for Left-wing third parties trying to go for mass appeal is fools gold given voting patterns don’t allow for a #NeverSocialism or #NeverDemocrats centre-right demographic that votes Libertarian to even exist for these tickets.

[beaver2.0]

I think there are some that are sane.  Some of the American Solidarity people do.  I think a lot of the far-left parties nominate people that know they have no chance, but do it anyway to rail against the current establishment.

I have to disagree with this logic, especially now. With the two main leftist electoral tickets, they’re picking candidates that have wide reach and/or are representative of their beliefs.

Both Howie Hawkins and Angela Nicole Walker are trade unionists and have been apart of local campaigns beforehand. Howie Hawkins is an interesting figure in that his folksy accent and him being a Vietnam War veteran and a socialist is a glaring good electoral sign. He’s consistent and a veteran, something a lot of people admire, especially many WWC members for the last part. He’s also, imo, a very easy figure to cast as a “green Bernie” for disaffected voters from the Bernie camp in 2016 and 2020 much more then Jill Stein ever will be. Angela Nicole Walker than is a good balance as a female African American VP known in her pivotal home state of Wisconsin and now Florida. By all accounts, this is a much stronger ticket then a one-note politician, the new age loon known as Jill Stein and her irrelevant academic VP in 2016. Perfect for picking up the still-angry Bernie Sanders voters yet having the street cred for a traditional ticket of the Left.

On the Gloria La Riva/Leonard Peltier ticket, they’re definitely attracting a certain demographic as a ticket. Gloria La Riva has apparently good connections with the PFP and LUP to get on their tickets, and her past as a union member and A.N.S.W.E.R. activist has made her a and her party a known figure for better or worse. Leonard Peltier is a political prisoner and an AIM activist, perfect for what kind of voters this ticket is trying to acquire. This is not a ticket meant for wider audiences, and it’s obvious what route the PSL and Gloria La Riva are vying for. The PSL views itself as a vanguard party for orthodox revolutionary Marxist-Leninism, and in their minds an increase in votes on their permanent platform shows how solidified and successful they’ve done.

So yeah, for what they are, the Leftist tickets are obviously vying for a certain demographic of voters most likely to vote for them, and for Left-wing third parties trying to go for mass appeal is fools gold given voting patterns don’t allow for a #NeverSocialism or #NeverDemocrats centre-right demographic that votes Libertarian to even exist for these tickets.

I think we agree on this if I'm understanding your argument correctly.  I don't believe La Riva or Hawkins actually think they are going to  be President, but are running either to bring their views to a wider audience or to give people that align with them an option they can vote for.

There are some third party/independent candidates that I actually think believe they have a chance.

[AltWorlder]

Save this for the next primary:

https://twitter.com/DemocratMachine/status/1268015324294594560

[SingingAnalyst]

Monds or Gray would have been great VP picks, I have no idea why Cohen got the VP slot. To be fair though, Gary Johnson did say there were some great people, and then some that are just bat**** crazy.

So, picking Spike is meant to ensure that the bat**** wing of the party stays onboard?  A unity ticket.

Disappointing choice, ensuring Jorgensen remains at around 1% of the NPV.

I believe Jorgensen herself wanted someone else.

[Hnv1]

Save this for the next primary:

https://twitter.com/DemocratMachine/status/1268015324294594560

Who cares about them? they never managed to break a quarter of a million votes in any presidential election. part for aging paleo-conservatives and the far religious right this party is as relevant as Bob Avakian

[AltWorlder]

Who cares about them?

Because we're posting in the Minor Party Primaries Results and Discussion thread.

That said, I am very interested to see who takes their place as the third preeminent third party in the U.S. after the Libertarians and the Greens. If they somehow manage to delay that by having high-profile GOP defectors give them a shot in the arm, well that's amusing to. Their national organization looks to be disintegrating, though.

[PSOL]

Save this for the next primary:

https://twitter.com/DemocratMachine/status/1268015324294594560

Who cares about them? they never managed to break a quarter of a million votes in any presidential election. part for aging paleo-conservatives and the far religious right this party is as relevant as Bob Avakian

Bob Avakian wishes to be as relevant as to have a few lackeys having power and commandeering 75,000 people to his glorified book club cult.

The next third 3rd party is up in the air it seems. We’re going to have to wait until a party surpasses the Constitution party in membership and electoral positions. So far, only the DSA has that mantle.

[AltWorlder]

Specifically regarding the presidency, DSA is sort of like a national version of the Working Families Party, I'd say. They're less like actual political parties that puts doomed third party presidential candidates on vanity campaigns, and more like wannabe kingmakers. I don't really see them replacing the Constitution Party in national races, because they're not interested in seeking ballot access.

[PSOL]

Specifically regarding the presidency, DSA is sort of like a national version of the Working Families Party, I'd say. They're less like actual political parties that puts doomed third party presidential candidates on vanity campaigns, and more like wannabe kingmakers. I don't really see them replacing the Constitution Party in national races, because they're not interested in seeking ballot access.

I mean what other option is there;

• The American Solidarity party is too irrelevant and small, albeit growing
• Reform and most other centrist parties are too personality based and unstable to last in this political environment
• Most Alt-Right parties have collapsed or hitched themselves with the Republican Party
• The PSL and SAlt are growing as of late, but they only stand at a few thousand at most combined and SAlt only has the one council seat in Seattle

Look, as much as I dislike the “wannabe kingmaker” mentality and their current electoral tactics, they do help grow the wider organization in the short run. They’re the only relevant electoral organization out there right now that can surpass the major third parties. Who else can do that?

[AltWorlder]

My point was unclear. I think what's going to happen is that unlike third party politics in the past, with a recent peak in the 90s with the Reform Party (but not ignoring other prominent third party efforts in the 20th century), we're going into an era where it's less significant for third parties to try to go the traditional route of gaining power by launching a rabble-rousing outsider presidential campaign. That's because outsiders have entered the major parties, there's more polarization going on between the duopoly, active electoral suppression of minor parties through things like restrictive ballot access laws, etc.

So you're probably right that the DSA will eclipse the CP- they probably already have, and perhaps there will be more registered DSA members than Greens or even Libertarians. With all of the buzz around them since 2016 and all of the many caucuses they have, I almost wonder if there are more DSA than Green already. But I think parties like the DSA and WFP are different from third parties that pursue more "traditional" paths to power, and by that I mean hopeless vanity presidential campaigns.

Eventually we should draw a distinction between these new, more pragmatic, kingmaker third parties that are almost like "2.5" parties that exist to put pressure on the major parties, and the traditional 3rd parties. The good thing about being kingmaker is that it puts you closer to the mainstream and gets you more clout than doing a quixotic run. The press definitely gave more press to the WFP when they were deliberating on which Democrat to endorse than they ever covered the Greens this cycle. On the flip side, the DSA is definitely behind the Libertarians/Greens in terms of ballot access, but maybe that's the point; they're not seeking it when they can just endorse Justice Democrats or other leftist candidates within an existing major party.

That said, even within the sideshow electoral ghetto of traditional third party politics, I'm still wondering which obscure quixotic third party will replace the CP. As in, which party will have more members, more ballot access, and more coverage than them. I actually think that if they get their act together, the Alliance Party under Jim Rex's chairmanship and Rocky de la Fuente's money has a chance to unite all of the regional centrist/moderate/"independent" micro-parties, and create a new Reform Party from below. But they've still got a long way to go until then.

The traditional third party scene is fun to watch, there's something charming about the self-importance many of the people involved, despite the irrelevance. And the drama is just as fun as in duopoly politics, minus all of the actual harm. Though you're right, the wannabe kingmakers like the DSA will ultimately have greater influence and impact on actual politics. Are there any besides them and the WFP and some regional parties like the Conservative Party of New York?

[PSOL]

I can answer a few questions you have. Firstly the DSA has numerically less officeholders and members  then the Green Party, Albeit most of the DSA politicians manage to enter upper legislatures and even the House of Representatives through AOC and Tlaib according to Wikipedia at this point. According to the Wiki, the Green Party has ~250,000 members and the DSA has 66,000 members. Compare this to the Libertarians sporting ~697,000 members, the Constitution Party sporting ~75,000 members and diminishing, and the social democratic and even Democratic collaborationist outfit more lacking a spine then the DSA which is CPUSA having 7,500 members, and SAlt having 1,000 members. Now these numbers mean nothing without context. The Green Party and SAlt have seen modest rises since 2012, while the Libertarians and especially the DSA have grown exponentially. Heck, the DSA has 1.5k members in 2015 and was stagnant till the rise of Bernie Sanders, so the rise is in itself telling. Of course, such a rise means that very few members are actually willing participants in electoral and direct activism work especially, but that’s a discussion for another time.

Ditto on the 2.5 party line

I have to immensely disagree that the Alliance party will go anywhere. In all honesty, most centrist parties are mostly lacking in a real base and are personality driven instead of based in the issues of constituents. I’m seeing a lot of parallels between the Reform party and Alliance, albeit it seems that they’re less of a one-man show sucking up all the oxygen then the former. My bet is either with a socialist party like the PSL or SAlt taking that mantle or the American Solidarity Party succeeding as a Christian Democratic Party. There are actually more real and stable bases of support for said parties; what with trade unionists, renters, immigrant rights activists, National Liberationists for suppressed marginalized ethnic groups, and homeless advocates forming the Left while the ASP has religious Americans of all stripes turned off from the rabid tone and authoritarianism more befitting of the elite more caring about $$$$ than “Christian” America. That brings in a lot of religious socially conservative Christian immigrants, middle class professionals like the VPH, and people not bigoted against ethic groups or different cultures as long as they are Christian and not deviating against norms set in the Bible, e.g. homosexuals.

It is fun to see and talk about the alternative political underbelly of this nation. However, in terms of electoral politics, I expect ballot restrictions would push a lot of people to doing more activism work outside of the Left. Currently, most socialist parties and organizations in America do more work in activism and protests, with an increasing penetration into the labor and student movement. So far, outside of the Left such mobilizations don’t happen or get sponsored by parties outside of the Republican Party like with the anti-Lockdown protests. I’m talking about things like the PSL’s anti-imperialism marches or the FRSO participating heavily in the Women’s march or convention protests. On another note, to people reliant on electoral success, I would guess electoral alliances or even mergers will be much more relevant in the future.

[StateBoiler]

Speaking of Rocky, is he and the Alliance Party okay? The Twitter accounts of both haven't posted in nearly two weeks, which is weird because he's usually so verbose online, and a quarantine is a time period where social media buzz actually has more real-world impact. It's like they had their virtual nomination and then lost all momentum.

The party released their June newsletter this week, and announced they're working on litigating ballot access and an alliance with the ballot-qualified Michigan Natural Law Party.

[StateBoiler]

Monds or Gray would have been great VP picks, I have no idea why Cohen got the VP slot. To be fair though, Gary Johnson did say there were some great people, and then some that are just bat**** crazy.

Was supposedly Vermin Supreme's choice for VP candidate, and the LP commenters at IPR said he impressed a lot of delegates with his speech/debate performance.

[walleye26]

Here’s my question: will Blankenship do better than Castle in 2016? I feel like his wealth he could drop some ads, his net worth is $40 million.

[PSOL]

More drama from the Libertarian Convention

[StateBoiler]

Here’s my question: will Blankenship do better than Castle in 2016? I feel like his wealth he could drop some ads, his net worth is $40 million.

Depends on ballot access. Covid has thrown a monkey wrench into everyone's petitioning plans (some major party candidates for state office as well). Democrat and Republican Attorneys General are trying to make sure none of them get relief. Illinois just asked for a $41 billion bailout from the federal government and the state government thinks it's a good use of state financial resources to fight against a U.S. District Court decision that put the Libertarian and Green Party candidates on the general election ballot.

[StateBoiler]

The Alliance Party say on their website that the Reform Party of Florida have become an affiliate member, so probably tells you the result of that Convention this weekend.

[StateBoiler]

So the Reform Party (which has ballot access in Florida and Mississippi) elected new officers on Saturday. The Committee Secretary defeated the incumbent Chairman. The convention was then adjourned as delegates apparently were not aware they had more choices than just Rocky De La Fuente to nominate for president. So they'll have a 60-to-90-minute Q-and-A session with the 4 people seeking their nomination, one each night this week. These will be streamed online and recorded, public allowed to view. All sessions beginning at 8pm. The convention will reseat this coming Saturday at June 20th where they will select the presidential ticket.

Tuesday - Ben Zion
Wednesday - Rocky De La Fuente
Thursday - Souraya Faas
Friday - Max Abramson

The Alliance Party had listed the Reform Party of Florida as an affiliate on its website, and that has since been removed.

Not that I know the political leanings of Reform Party national delegates, but my guess is De La Fuente or Abramson as the 2 most credible options.

[beaver2.0]

So the Reform Party (which has ballot access in Florida and Mississippi) elected new officers on Saturday. The Committee Secretary defeated the incumbent Chairman. The convention was then adjourned as delegates apparently were not aware they had more choices than just Rocky De La Fuente to nominate for president. So they'll have a 60-to-90-minute Q-and-A session with the 4 people seeking their nomination, one each night this week. These will be streamed online and recorded, public allowed to view. All sessions beginning at 8pm. The convention will reseat this coming Saturday at June 20th where they will select the presidential ticket.

Tuesday - Ben Zion
Wednesday - Rocky De La Fuente
Thursday - Souraya Faas
Friday - Max Abramson

The Alliance Party had listed the Reform Party of Florida as an affiliate on its website, and that has since been removed.

Not that I know the political leanings of Reform Party national delegates, but my guess is De La Fuente or Abramson as the 2 most credible options.

Interestingly, Ben Zion is no longer the head of the Transhumanist ticket.