|           

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
April 07, 2020, 08:32:46 am
News:
If you are having trouble logging in due to invalid user name / pass:

Consider resetting your account password, as you may have forgotten it over time if using a password manager.

  Talk Elections
  General Politics
  International General Discussion (Moderators: Gustaf, afleitch, Hash, Babette d'Interlaken)
  Chile finally making progress on same-sex marriage
« previous next »
Pages: [1] Print
Author Topic: Chile finally making progress on same-sex marriage  (Read 361 times)
Lourdes
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 1,330
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« on: January 15, 2020, 05:23:31 pm »



The bill has stalled for ages. Now it's finally on the Senate agenda, and it looks likely to pass.

There's a live video right now linked above, so if there are any Chileans/Spanish speakers here that can elaborate further into this, it would be appreciated.
Logged
Babette d'Interlaken
Kalwejt
Moderator
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 55,910


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2020, 05:28:04 pm »

That moment you see another traditional stronghold of the Catholic church influence on the verge of legalizing the SSM, and you feel embarrassed for your own country not following the suit.
Logged
kaoras
Rookie
**
Posts: 60
Chile


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2020, 06:36:51 pm »

Well, the "motion to legislate" (preliminary vote basically) passed 22 to 16, exactly the votes it needed to pass.

It might still take a while to get it a approve it though since the government remains uninterested (it was tabled by the opposition, but is the government who largely controls what is reviewed by the Congress)
Logged
Grand Inquisitor Lumine
LumineVonReuental
Moderators
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 11,560


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2020, 06:51:05 pm »

That moment you see another traditional stronghold of the Catholic church influence on the verge of legalizing the SSM, and you feel embarrassed for your own country not following the suit.

Although the influence of the Catholic Church in Chile has been rather strong, there's been enough of a cultural shift lately that would make it hard to define Chile as a stronghold. The sexual abuse scandals hurt the Church's image so badly that the number of Catholics have dropped in dramatic fashion, and it doesn't seem likely that this shift (which partly benefits Evangelicals, but mostly leads to a somewhat Agnostic population) will stop anytime soon.

In any case, excellent news (one can only wish it would have happened far earlier, and hope it will become law as soon as possible), and a welcome development given how hopelessly screwed we are (and how worse the future is likely to be).
Logged
kaoras
Rookie
**
Posts: 60
Chile


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2020, 07:24:41 pm »

That moment you see another traditional stronghold of the Catholic church influence on the verge of legalizing the SSM, and you feel embarrassed for your own country not following the suit.

In any case, excellent news (one can only wish it would have happened far earlier, and hope it will become law as soon as possible), and a welcome development given how hopelessly screwed we are (and how worse the future is likely to be).

Yes, we are hopelessly screwed, but I fail to see how it can get any worse. Even under a populist outsider (which is at this point is almost inevitable given the level of incompetence across the political spectrum) I just don't see how can it be worse than this, at worse it will be equally bad. At least he/she probably won't blame K-pop for its problems!.

Anyway, sorry for the Out of topic.
Logged
Babette d'Interlaken
Kalwejt
Moderator
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 55,910


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2020, 08:12:46 am »

That moment you see another traditional stronghold of the Catholic church influence on the verge of legalizing the SSM, and you feel embarrassed for your own country not following the suit.

Although the influence of the Catholic Church in Chile has been rather strong, there's been enough of a cultural shift lately that would make it hard to define Chile as a stronghold. The sexual abuse scandals hurt the Church's image so badly that the number of Catholics have dropped in dramatic fashion, and it doesn't seem likely that this shift (which partly benefits Evangelicals, but mostly leads to a somewhat Agnostic population) will stop anytime soon.

In Poland the Church is becoming increasingly unpopular with the general population (though it depends on the region), and the population is becoming less religious too, but the political machine of the Church remains very strong, especially now with PiS in power (not that PO or even SLD, while in power, were much better).
Logged
Grand Inquisitor Lumine
LumineVonReuental
Moderators
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 11,560


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2020, 09:56:48 am »

That moment you see another traditional stronghold of the Catholic church influence on the verge of legalizing the SSM, and you feel embarrassed for your own country not following the suit.

Although the influence of the Catholic Church in Chile has been rather strong, there's been enough of a cultural shift lately that would make it hard to define Chile as a stronghold. The sexual abuse scandals hurt the Church's image so badly that the number of Catholics have dropped in dramatic fashion, and it doesn't seem likely that this shift (which partly benefits Evangelicals, but mostly leads to a somewhat Agnostic population) will stop anytime soon.

In Poland the Church is becoming increasingly unpopular with the general population (though it depends on the region), and the population is becoming less religious too, but the political machine of the Church remains very strong, especially now with PiS in power (not that PO or even SLD, while in power, were much better).

Interesting, I would have figured the general population was still very much on board with the Church and with social conservatism (rather than it being a result of political influence).

Here I can't even say the Church even retains political influence (beyond, say, a couple of Congressmen) at this point, it's pretty telling that in course of this entire process since October no one has either cared about what the Church has said nor seen it as a valid part of the discussion (or even a potential mediator, a role that the Church can still play in other countries in Latin America).

On a general sense I would find it a positive thing to see less involvement in politics from religion, but I am a bit wary about some of the potential side effects (not on legislation itself, but on society). In comparison, I'd much rather have the Church still influential as opposed to the Evangelicans gaining too much ground.
Logged
Babette d'Interlaken
Kalwejt
Moderator
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 55,910


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2020, 03:53:26 pm »

That moment you see another traditional stronghold of the Catholic church influence on the verge of legalizing the SSM, and you feel embarrassed for your own country not following the suit.

Although the influence of the Catholic Church in Chile has been rather strong, there's been enough of a cultural shift lately that would make it hard to define Chile as a stronghold. The sexual abuse scandals hurt the Church's image so badly that the number of Catholics have dropped in dramatic fashion, and it doesn't seem likely that this shift (which partly benefits Evangelicals, but mostly leads to a somewhat Agnostic population) will stop anytime soon.

In Poland the Church is becoming increasingly unpopular with the general population (though it depends on the region), and the population is becoming less religious too, but the political machine of the Church remains very strong, especially now with PiS in power (not that PO or even SLD, while in power, were much better).

Interesting, I would have figured the general population was still very much on board with the Church and with social conservatism (rather than it being a result of political influence).

I wouldn't say there's some sudden, massive change of attitude, and it certainly depends on the region. But the church is doing everything to piss the people off due to stuff like greed, open exercising of its' political influence, like during the abortion debate, pedo scandals and so on.

And generally, even many people who declare himself Catholic are pretty much non-observant, but there's no reliable data. Of course in the countryside the church attendance is large, even if one doesn't really care for this. You know, "everybody does that", "what would other people think?" and so on. In small town and villages everybody knows everybody and of everybody. I've lived in such place for a couple of years. My family never went to church and it was known we were an atheist household, but if we were locals, we probably wouldn't get away with the pretty open judgment and peer pressure.

When people from the province moves to bigger cities, especially the younger ones (going to study/work after graduation), many essentially stops attending or does it irregularly.

As of the "social conservatism" thing, it is pretty strong, but it's more like a polarization than something decisively prevailing. For example the majority of Poles are, per all opinion polls, consistently in favor of abortion laws liberalization, and the church's inflexible and arrogant behavior in this regard only illustrated how deep the polarization goes now.

Ironically the "political class" as whole is more conservative socially than larger part of the population in cases such as abortion. That's the consequence of three decades of everybody not wanting to upset the church, or some people just became too rigid.
Logged
Pages: [1] Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length
Logout

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines