WI: Hillary Clinton was Elected President in 2016...
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  WI: Hillary Clinton was Elected President in 2016...
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Author Topic: WI: Hillary Clinton was Elected President in 2016...  (Read 1233 times)
Frodo
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« on: January 03, 2020, 01:35:17 AM »

How differently would her foreign policy have been from the Trump administration, especially with regard to Iran (since that is now front and center in the news and on our minds)? 
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brucejoel99
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« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2020, 02:12:23 PM »

Overall, it would've largely been a continuation of Obama's & so would've seldom made news.

As for Iran in particular, she would've sought to have had it both ways: she'd sound more skeptical of Tehran's intentions than Obama did, but she would've done nothing to jeopardize the nuclear deal that he signed, which she surely would've recognized is the best that he could've gotten, not to mention a greater diplomatic achievement than anything which she herself could claim. Indeed, it's hard to believe that a President Clinton would've ever taken the political risks that Obama accepted in order to reach an agreement with a hated adversary. That's the blind spot of the tough-minded, who are so acutely conscious of the world as it is that they have trouble imagining a world that might be.

She would've also reassured the Saudis that we're on their side in the epochal battle against Iran that Riyadh insists on waging. This last policy, which for Clinton would've come under the heading of alliance management, would only deepen the violence & sectarian strife rending the region.
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538Electoral
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« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2020, 10:45:16 PM »

A lot more disastrous.
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kelestian
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« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2020, 08:19:53 AM »

I'm interested at how it would change the course of Syrian Civil War. Clinton had promised no-fly zone, would she ordered shooting down of Russian warplanes?  Trump largerly ignore Syria, especially in crucial 2017-2018 years
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« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2020, 01:17:34 PM »

I agree as a left-winger.

Middle Eastern strategy, Northern Korea, Russia and a lot on foreign policy would be done more terribly, while on domestic policy there wouldn't be much change while change was highely needed. The left should never have backed here, and never back her.
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CookieDamage
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« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2020, 11:56:15 PM »

I agree as a left-winger.

Middle Eastern strategy, Northern Korea, Russia and a lot on foreign policy would be done more terribly, while on domestic policy there wouldn't be much change while change was highely needed. The left should never have backed here, and never back her.

Mmm yeah don't provide specifics or anything that requires too many brain cells.
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Lakigigar
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« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2020, 10:51:18 AM »

I agree as a left-winger.

Middle Eastern strategy, Northern Korea, Russia and a lot on foreign policy would be done more terribly, while on domestic policy there wouldn't be much change while change was highely needed. The left should never have backed here, and never back her.

Mmm yeah don't provide specifics or anything that requires too many brain cells.
On foreign policy, she's anything but left. She wasn't part of the resistance against the Iraq War. She wasn't part of the resistance against the Vietnam War. Those that resist it were left-wing on foreign policy. We don't want to fight pointless wars, because the elite wants us to do so (WW1 is exactly another pointless war that did cost the lives of millions of international labourers).

On domestic policy, she would admittely be better than Trump (how can you not be). But Trump is just a protest vote, some sort of message: "i don't like you Dems, with the way you're currently doing politics, so i'm voting Trump even though he's worse or I disagree with you". And guess what foreign policy is important to me. Trump didn't drag us into another pointless wars. He's in fact (ironically) one of the most pacifist presidents in the history of the United States, whether you like it or not. That's an achievement. He's even criticized for being too pacific. The warmongers like to take Iran down. They did want to leave troops in Syria for longer (and i guess they even have a point). Hillary would've dragged us into another war, and more tense relations with other great powers, especially Russia.

But on domestic policy esp. the environment and some social issues, she would be better. She would also be a little bit better on economic policies, problem is we might not even have felt it. And more importantly: the right has a point in that balancing budgets, making sure money is rolling in the economy and creating jobs are economic priorities, whicb indeed involves cutting back on high taxes for corporations and multinationals so that they can compete, and that jobs don't leave the USA. It's just a different viewpoint, and i'm not sure what viewpoint is the better one.

And Hillary's view on the economy is something i just don't know enough about it. One of her mistakes is that it went all about personality. Do you want a first woman to be president. Or Do you really want Trump as president, a clown, a narcistic, a crook, rather than talking about policies that would help the working class. I don't really know her program. I assume it was more left-wing than Trump. And despite everything, you knew what you were going to get with Hillary, while Trump was a bet. But Trump's message however was clear and did appeal to me and a lot of the working class. Keeping jobs in our country. Making America great again, like it once was. Renegotiating bad deals. Trump's strength is that he knows how to appeal to people despite being immensely impopular because of his personality (and while he is open about being a douchebag, others aren't, but still are).

One thing i'm sure about it, and that is that both Trump and Hillary had good intentions, but their intentions might conflict with what such a presidency would lead to. I even believe Hitler had from his (distorted) viewpoint good intentions. He thought he was doing something good by mass murdering all Jews. He was that deranged. Stalin on the other hand knew he was an evil man, and enjoyed mass murdering everyone. He's an exception to that rule. Not that i'm defending Hitler here, just something i want to note. Few people have bad intentions. And Clinton didn't have bad intentions either.

There were some talking points about her campaign that was bullsh**t. Like her e-mails, come on, does that really matter. But what did matter to me is how the DNC sabotaged Sanders campaign by superdelegates, making clear they don't want Sanders, influencing their primaries (and everyone might tell me it didn't, but i'm 100% sure it was like this, not saying Clinton wouldn't have won if the primaries weren't influenced). But for someone talking about Russian interference, or complaining about Wikileaks, it's just stupid to say something like that. And make sure there is nothing to leak about your campaign or whatever. Everything about me can be leaked. I don't have anything to hide, except for the fact that just like Ojeda i supported Trump in the past, and that might be an immediate disqualifier. But even than, i wouldn't be kicked out of my political party for example, because that was 2016 and now we're 2020, although i'm still sort of defending Trump.

Maybe i'm wrong and i should support Bloomberg for president over Trump, while still indicating that i prefer Trump over Bloomberg and Biden, but i'm not really sure about it, and they're emotional reactions rather than decisions being made rationally. I used to be a Hillary fan before 2016. She was an idol of me. She was an idol of my mom. Everything just changed when Sanders grassroots campaign joined the 2016 presidential race, and she might be right that it did cost her the election, but especially with the way Clinton and the DNC handled the primaries. Sometimes i want to say: "i want to forgive you Clinton for all you did", but than she says something controversial again about the Russians buying out a candidate on 2020, not admitting her mistakes from the past, or criticizing Sanders once again. I'm just done with her. I can't forgive and forget what she's doing, and just like Trump i hate her as a person. I truly hate her as a person. But the only right decision in 2020 was admittely to abstain, and so should the left have done. We lost in the 2016 primaries when Sanders lost, and should have stayed home to sent a signal to the DNC and the Democratic Party.

But if you want to know the real answer, yes she would be better on domestic policy, still not satisfying though and apart of economic policies where i won't go in detail about, she would at least be better on environmental and social issues, or picked the right SC picks. She would have done some good things, but overall i still believe that just like Trump she would go down as a bad president.

It's just my opinion. I can be wrong, but it's what i think. We all make mistakes. Clinton did. I did. Trump did, but life goes on.



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Sumner 1868
tara gilesbie
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« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2020, 04:16:17 PM »

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1946_United_States_elections

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994_United_States_elections

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_United_States_elections
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