What is your favourite state of Mexico?

[ag]

Whichever one contains the least Mexicans.

Quintana Roo... that's where Cancun is.

Then if I had to I'd pick that one, otherwise Mexico is crap.

You're an idiot, Jedi - Mexico is cool, but Cancun is so crappy it is like being in Florida.

I remember when I visited Cancun, it was after a monthlong trip through Guatemala and the Yucatan - Cancun seemed like such a hellhole it was like being home again already.

I love Florida so I'd love Cancun then. I don't care about what you like Opebo becaue most of the forum and world doesn't agree with you so STFU because you're starting to annoy me more lately.

Actually, love of Florida does not imply love of Cancun. If the only thing you care is the beach and the luxury hotel on the beach at 200 dollars/ night - then yes, you'd love it (once they restore the beach post-hurricane). Otherwise, you won't: the hotel zone is on a sand island, isolated, ultra-expensive and fairly boring. The one pedestrian area was (pre-hurricane) somewhat seedy. The restaurants and service are so-so. The city on the mainland is fine, but is brand new - wasn't there until 1974 - so there isn't anything to see there other than shopping malls.  In the same area (Riviera Maya) there are many nice and reasonably upscale resorts with the character, that Cancun lacks.

[opebo]

Then if I had to I'd pick that one, otherwise Mexico is crap.

You're an idiot, Jedi - Mexico is cool, but Cancun is so crappy it is like being in Florida.

I remember when I visited Cancun, it was after a monthlong trip through Guatemala and the Yucatan - Cancun seemed like such a hellhole it was like being home again already.

I love Florida so I'd love Cancun then. I don't care about what you like Opebo becaue most of the forum and world doesn't agree with you so STFU because you're starting to annoy me more lately.

I apologize for the use of the term 'idiot', Jedi - it was unwarranted.  I just got a little angry when you dismissed a whole country as 'crap', except for the one place there I knew for sure I hated!

[ag]

15. Michoacan (native name). Another heartland state, this time in the West. Originally the land of the tarrascans, was never conquered by the Aztecs. Today the offspring of tarrascans are known as purepecha.  The stae capital Morelia (originally, Valladolid), is one of the most Spanish cities in Mexico. Since they've cleared out the street  traders from the city center it is also one of the most tourist friendly (the state government really tries). Valladolid was very loyalist during the independence war (hey, their soccer team's flag - and the unofficial city flag, flying over the city hall - still have the Spanish colors) - in retaliation it was renamed after its unfavored son, the independence war leader Jose Maria Morelos. Elsewhere in the state there are such gems as the beautiful town of Patzcuaro (on the eponimous lake). Great crafts and, especially, sweets.  There are also the famous monarch butterflies on the eastern border with Mexico State.  These days the state is reliably PRD - but it is the family loyalty to the sainted late President Lazaro Cardenas (both Cardenas and his son Cuauhtemoc - the founder, perennial presidential candidate and the "moral leader" of the PRD - have been governors, and the current governor is their son-grandson Lazarito). Now, however, the native son running for presidency is PAN's Calderon - this is PAN's real chance for a pickup.

16. Morelos (named after Jose Maria Morelos - confusingly, Morelia - see Michoacan - is not in Morelos). Just south of Mexico City, but the high mountains inbetween clearly divide the two, so the state capital Cuernavaca is not a true suburb (though some people do commute). Despite a storied past and an impressive array of important sites and landmarks, Cuernavaca is ugly, unless you manage to penetrate one of the walls enclosing the compounds where Mexico City's and local people frolic by the pools (they say, from within some of the compounds you can even enjoy some great views - hard to believe if you stand outside). The city is dirty rich (malls galore and even Starbucks has entered, making it the smallest Mexican metro area with the green mermaids - the others are Mexico City, Guadalajara, Puebla and Toluca), but has the worst paved roads anywhere. But the climate is great - "the city of eternal spring" is always some 5 degrees Celsius warmer than Mexico City, so you can be in a pool around the year. The rest of this small state does not lack in sites: the "precolumbian UN" in Xochicalco, the UNESCO World Heritage monasteries on the slopes of Popocatepetl, old haciendas (some of them converted into great hotels), the pretty lake Tequisquitengo and more. Of course, this is also the land of Emiliano Zapata and the original Zapatistas, who were so successful in fighting for the rights of sugar workers, that ever since their victory the state has simply produced no sugar (it had been the main sugar producing area before). Such elimination of sugar workers has led to a certain gentrification (will the modern Zapatistas be as successful in eliminating farming in Chiapas?), and today the state is governed by PAN (though given the corruption problems of the current governor - he seems to have inherited the style of his PRI predecessors - the party might have wished it weren't).

16. Nayarit (native name). The second-smallest state in population. One feature of it is that the governors tend to defect from coalitions that nominate them. The current governor is currently PAN, I think (or am I wrong and he is already in PRD?). Don't know much more about it.

17. Nuevo Leon (the New Leon - after the erstwhile Kingdom of Leon in Spain). The state's capital and heart is Mexico's third city: Monterrey, the main city of the North, the soul of Mexico's business and industry and the home to many of it's best universities. Many people say, that it reminds them of (a somewhat poorer) Dallas - that is, it wouldn't have been much different in spirit had it been annexed in 1848. Rich (by Mexico's standards) but hot and boring, say others. I should go and check. The state had been PAN, but PRI got it back recently (a common Northern trend).

[ag]

18. Oaxaca (native name) Though the second poorest state in Mexico, Oaxaca is one of its most charming. The state capital (Oaxaca) is a gem of a city, surrounde by pre-columbian sites (Monte Alban and Mitla alone would make it a destination) and native villages with early colonial churches and incredible crafts. The up-and-coming resort of Puerto Escondido is rated by many as one of the best places to be on a beach in Mexico.  Cortes had reserved the valley of Oaxaca for his own private domain - he had some taste. Today, the state is the most native in Mexico (some 56% of the population at the last census), and many of the native groups speak languages of families that are endemic to the state. Alltogether, it is a different Mexico - neither the Aztec heartland of Mexico proper (though the Aztecs did capture much of it in the last couple decades before the Spanish conquest), nor the Mayan world, nor the arid North. It has its own culture and its own cousine (and the greatest mezcal anywhere - instead of marketing the Jaliscan tequila, Mexico would do better by making famous the Oaxacan variety). Even though the state has given Mexico its only native president (Mexico's Lincoln - Benito Juarez - was a full-blooded Zapotec from Oaxaca), much of the native population still lives in poverty in tiny communities. Interestingly, in Oaxaca the traditional self-government of rural communities (one of the Zapatista demands in Chiapas) has been the law for a while (it hasn't helped much to do anything, though).

Tired again - continue next week.

[opebo]

The stae capital Morelia (originally, Valladolid), is one of the most Spanish cities in Mexico. Since they've cleared out the street  traders from the city center it is also one of the most tourist friendly (the state government really tries).

Sounds awful, ag.  Street traders and so forth are the whole point of going to the 'developing world' - FREEDOM.  Who wants to visit a controlled place just like home?

In Bangkok considerable oppression of things like street traders and streetwalkers has taken place - more steps towards Social Control and the ruination of the place for tourists with taste.

[ag]

The stae capital Morelia (originally, Valladolid), is one of the most Spanish cities in Mexico. Since they've cleared out the street  traders from the city center it is also one of the most tourist friendly (the state government really tries).

Sounds awful, ag.  Street traders and so forth are the whole point of going to the 'developing world' - FREEDOM.  Who wants to visit a controlled place just like home?

In Bangkok considerable oppression of things like street traders and streetwalkers has taken place - more steps towards Social Control and the ruination of the place for tourists with taste.

There are still more than enough markets and people selling things on the streets all over. The problem with uncontrolled street traders is that there can be too much of a good thing. To see this, just go to central Mexico City, where huge and potentiallly beautiful areas of the historic city have been converted into street markets selling junk. The result is, that everything else died: not only tourists, but most Mexicans are afraid to come close, the legal stores have been destroyed (firing more people and sending them to trade on the streets), the streets have come to resemble subway cars in rush hour (forget driving through - you can't walk more than a block in half an hour) and smell like public lavatory. Thus, perhaps the most beautiful part of the historic center is completely destroyed - sure, if you come to Mexico City you'd go visit (once or twice), but most of the time even you will stick to the "controlled" stretches from which they've kicked the traders out. The funny thing, it's not even "uncontrolled" where the junk market is: the vendor leaders have emerged as powerful organized crime figures, all vendors have to pay them for the right to occupy a chunk of the public street, there are enforcers all over - it's not pleasant, trust me.

Morelia, apparently, was starting to get out of control in a similar fashion, depressing tourism - they dealt with it early. Those vendors selling tourist stuff have been relocated to the "Artisan Center" in an old monastery - both sides actually prefer it this way. Still, remember, this is Mexico - it is naturally disorganized. Nothing in Mexico really will ever be "controlled" to the extent that you'd notice - there is always more than enough "character" you'd like to see.  The main square is alive with street life - probably more so now than before. It's not Kremlin - if you want really to go to a spooky place, that would be it.

[Undisguised Sockpuppet]

Ensenada has ALOT of bars and the people speak english there so its nice.

[opebo]

There are still more than enough markets and people selling things on the streets all over.

ag, what you described put things into perspective.  I agree that something totally uncontrolled could be bad - some sort of balance might work best.  For example in Bangkok there is a conjested market of tourist-junk that has grown up around the wonderful old sex-center of Patpong, making it difficult to walk through and of course offering nothing any reasonable person would be interested in.  Another prime sex-district of Bangkok is 'Nana', and happily there is less of this kind of junk-market there, however there is a thriving market of sidewalk food stalls and 'cafes' that has grown up since the absurd 1:00-2:00AM bar closing time was oppressively instituted. 

Guess which of these is cracked down upon by the cops - obviously the late night restaurants, as they offer a venue for freelancers and farangs to come together after hours.  For some reason governments never seem to care about the selling of worthless junk, but they cannot bear the selling of what all men want!