2020 Labour Leadership Election

[Blair]

FWIW we have local elections in 2020; and Mayoral elections in both 2020 & 2021- I really don't want to roadtest just how low we can go without Corbyn. Keeping Corbyn for that long means saying goodbye to a lot of good councillors & any chance of winning in the Midlands or Tees Valley.

There's two reasons why we need an effective Leader of the Opposition. Firstly we're facing a Tory Party with a huge majority; we need someone who is a good performer in Parliament to actually hold the Government to account. For all his perks JC was never good at the dispatch box.

Secondly we need someone who can begin the long process of sorting the party out; see my above posts about the problems facing Labour internally & the need for a clear out.

I'm happy keeping JC in place for the absolute embarrassment of the EHCR report so he can once again answer for the appalling response to antisemitism; but yes John McDonnnell could easily run the ship for the next few months.

[Paleobrazilian]

Burton rules out running for leader, but not deputy.

https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1206142371773194241?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7...

Now that's a dream ticket - for Boris.

[brucejoel99]

To be fair, it's quite possible that presiding over the next year or so of Brexit & the immediate aftermath thereof would do a lot to damage the reputation of the new leader. From that perspective, it makes sense for Labour to want to delay the election of its next leader until after Brexit has happened, so that they're not fatally tainted come 2024. And I suspect that Corbyn, already unpopular as he so evidently is, is happy to stay on as the de-facto caretaker so long as is necessary, especially since (unlike previous leadership resignations & subsequent contests) there isn't currently a deputy leader to serve as caretaker were he to resign right now.

Yes because it makes great sense to maintain in a leadership position a discredited and widely loathed figure who has repeatedly demonstrated a near-total inability to function as an effective Leader of the Opposition.

Incidentally, the EHRC report is out in the new year and the general expectation in the legal world is that it will be devastating.

Yes, better to have the already-tainted figure be (further) tainted by Brexit happening (which, regardless of how "effective" a LOTO he was, he can no longer do anything about since the Tories have now formed a majority government) then have the new leader who still has future campaigns to run.

I know Al knows what he's talking about more than anyone else on here when it comes to British politics, but this time I have to agree with Bruce. British politics might be different from American politics, but whether in America or Britain or anywhere else, timing matters. The next couple of years are going to bad for Labour no matter what, for purely structural reasons. There is no point in having an "effective" Leader of the Opposition in that context. Even if Labour chose someone with '97 Blair's charisma, '64 Wilson's acumen and '45 Attlee's stature, they won't be able to achieve anything in a context where the political debate is dominated by Brexit and BoJo is riding high from his triumph. Which means the novelty of that leader would also be lost. If Corbyn stays on, sure, it might make those few years even worse, but that gives the next leader a much better chance to mark a real break from the disaster of these years. If there's something I'm missing I'd love to know what, but it really seems strategically sounder to me.

How can one even think about keeping Corbyn on for a few YEARS?

If one is worried about the new leader getting burnt with Brexit, just pick an interim leader.

As CumbrianLeftie pointed out, with the deputy post vacant, the selection process for an interim leader would be less than ideal given the, shall we say, "stress" that would be involved in said selection. It's much easier, logistically & politically, to just let JC be the caretaker himself.

[Silent Hunter]

Khan might face a real challenge keeping the mayoralty in London. His stewardship of TfL hasn't been brilliant, with the Crossrail project now vastly late.

[CumbrianLefty]

Whoever gets in (and while I think speculating about possible candidates is reasonable, speculating about outcomes... too early for that, the World is changed and the Emperor has no clothes) will need to clean the stables. Will be very unpleasant. But it is urgent.

They're already allegedly facing these lawsuits after they tried to attack the Labour staffers on the Panorama program; along with the loss of short money (£1.2 million less due to seat loss), the cost of the various vanity projects implemented by Corbyns team (Labour Live cost £1 million & Karie's mysterious organisers cost £3 million) and the need to have a legal team to defend legal cases from it's own MPs it hasn't been the best 18 months for Labour HQ.

There are certain other disturbing signs that suggests that it would be a good idea to get some accountants in to look at the books and, if necessary (because it might all just be the sort of corruption that is perfectly legal combined with gross incompetence), to then have a little chat to Inspector Knacker.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-party-bankruptcy-antisemitism-investigation-corbyn-executive-a9153561.html

A real worry & danger (and perhaps a reason why JC enlarged the NEC!); although hopefully whoever comes in will ditch the cranks (even if they keep part of the movement) The thing that has always annoyed me the most is how so many unsuitable people used the Corbyn project (Livingstone, Lansman, Willsman, Lavery, Webbe and others) to either avoid scrutiny or climb up through the party. *

*something of course that happens in every era but this set of characters are worse than Charles Clarke, Clare Short or others

What's your beef with Lansman, he has at least been sound on AS you have to admit.

[Blair]

It was probably unfair to Lansman to include him in that group; but he put ridiculously inept people on the NEC slate for momentum, and while he has bouts of sanity (on AS & on opposing Formby as GS) he equally realised 12 months ago that the Corbyn project was doomed but doesn't appear to have done much.

I of course don't travel in these circles so it's all speculative guesswork but I feel Lansman had the chance to make momentum into something so much better than it is

[CumbrianLefty]

And of course, Livingstone was once good (agree with his politics or not)

To have him wheeled out on the TV as a "comic turn" come election night verged on elder abuse.

[brucejoel99]

https://twitter.com/PolhomeEditor/status/1206281825846464512

[parochial boy]

I like Clive Lewis, think he'd be good. Especially since he's got good experience with red walls...

It's Sunday night. Sorry

[Filuwaúrdjan]

To have him wheeled out on the TV as a "comic turn" come election night verged on elder abuse.

Given the incredibly dark situation regarding Skinner's bizarre candidature, there's another grim theme for Politics These Days...

[pikachu]

Not to make the dumb American comparison again, but it’s amazing that the Democratic primary will still be contested by the time this wrapped up.

Also, is it normal for leadership contenders to be this inexperienced? It seems like most of the talked-about candidates were elected in 2015 and there’s barely anyone from Labour’s last round in government. I know it was a decade ago now, but damn.

[Dr Oz Lost Party!]

So far, I've seen Labour twitter blame:
* The Media
* Brexit
* Tony Blair
* Neoliberalism
* Hillary Clinton ()
* Jo Swinson
* Remainers

for the loss... not the man with a -40 favorable rating who let Johnson walk all over him on Brexit and refused to discipline anti-semitism in his party.

[Hnv1]

bring back Ed Balls!

[Lord Halifax]

Not to make the dumb American comparison again, but it’s amazing that the Democratic primary will still be contested by the time this wrapped up.

Also, is it normal for leadership contenders to be this inexperienced? It seems like most of the talked-about candidates were elected in 2015 and there’s barely anyone from Labour’s last round in government. I know it was a decade ago now, but damn.

The election of Corbyn changed things fundamentally and the membership is much larger now. The Blairites and Brownites incl. ministers from the New Labour era aren't coming back. This will be between the Soft Left and the Hard Left.

[Blair]

Not to make the dumb American comparison again, but it’s amazing that the Democratic primary will still be contested by the time this wrapped up.

Also, is it normal for leadership contenders to be this inexperienced? It seems like most of the talked-about candidates were elected in 2015 and there’s barely anyone from Labour’s last round in government. I know it was a decade ago now, but damn.

There's a weirdness in British Politics about the intakes (the year they were elected)- the 2015 intake saw UNITE and the Left actually do quite well so there was a stock to promote in the patty- and Corbyns team to their credit have made a successor in Rebecca Long Bailey.

RLB as leader should be seen as as stupid idea but it's been said so often, and she's been given so much help by LOTO, and Labour HQ that it appears perfectly normal

Besides the figures from the last Labour Government have actively planned their careers around avoiding the leadership; Hillary Benn & Yvette Cooper became committee chairs, Margaret Beckett took the lead on the People's Vote Campaign & Sadiq/Andy have became Mayors. You also have a lot of the junior rungs of the New Labour years who have (Tom Watson, Ed Balls, Douglas Alexander, James Purnell) cleared off to do jobs outside of Westminster.

Of course this is all a problem going back to 2010- the exodus of the New Labour heavyweights in 2010 was key. None of them ran for leader & they cleared out when Ed Miliband came in; meaning that we had a top team that was very light and inexperienced & we're still seeing that problem today.

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2016/09/fall-labour-s-golden-generation

[CumbrianLefty]

bring back Ed Balls!

A major reason for Labour's defeat in 2015.

No thanks.

[Babeuf]

This Flint vs. Thornberry fight / legal action (!?) seems unhelpful.

[CumbrianLefty]

Its the sort of thing you can really imagine Thornberry saying, that's the thing.

(though she is denying it totally adamantly tbf)

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Honestly, European socialist/social democratic parties are known for their affinity of shooting itself in the foot, and Labour in particular has a long history of this very problem. Thus I'm not optimistic.

[Blair]

The dirty deal between Angela and Long-Bailey has been done according to the infamously reliable twitter journos.

It's the wrong way round with Angela set to run for Deputy.

[DaWN]

Continuity Corbyn Ahoy!

(and yes, I know I said I wouldn't be back on the UK threads. I lied. Sorry.)

[Continential]

bring back Ed Balls!

No, Yvette Balls /s

[Paleobrazilian]

The dirty deal between Angela and Long-Bailey has been done according to the infamously reliable twitter journos.

It's the wrong way round with Angela set to run for Deputy.

[brucejoel99]

The dirty deal between Angela and Long-Bailey has been done according to the infamously reliable twitter journos.

It's the wrong way round with Angela set to run for Deputy.

Wew that's awful

[Filuwaúrdjan]

No more stitch ups, please.