UK General Discussion:The Rt. Hon Alex Boris de Pfeffel Johnson, Populist Hero

[Antonio the Sixth]

How does the subject line look like now

Excellent!

[Antonio the Sixth]

Good. This is the SNP's price, and Labour must be ready to pay it.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Good. This is the SNP's price, and Labour must be ready to pay it.

Tbh I think people knowing that was one of the factors that caused labour to suffer it's worst defeat since the 1930s

You can make that claim for 2015, but I really don't think it played a major role in either 2017 or 2019. Especially since Brexit seems to have heightened English identity to the point of making them willing to jettison the rest of the UK.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Probably won't last for long - and it is early enough for it not to matter too much - but the latest GE poll:

CON: 49% (+4)
LAB: 29% (-4)
LDEM: 10% (-2)
GRN: 4% (+1)
BREX: 2% (-)

Congrats, BoJo. Now it's all downhill from here.

[Antonio the Sixth]

The UK should never under any circumstance rejoin the EU. Even if they elect a government that wants to, any sane European country must veto that request. If there's one thing we've learned from this debacle, it's that De Gaulle was right.

Now, I sincerely hope that y'all will eventually be able to work your way back into a Norway-style arrangement  in a way that doesn't alienate large swathes of the country. That would be the best outcome for everyone involved. But given the choices BoJo has made so far, the next few years will be rough.

(And Scotland of course is very welcome as soon as it leaves the sinking ship.)

[Antonio the Sixth]

The UK should never under any circumstance rejoin the EU. Even if they elect a government that wants to, any sane European country must veto that request. If there's one thing we've learned from this debacle, it's that De Gaulle was right.

Now, I sincerely hope that y'all will eventually be able to work your way back into a Norway-style arrangement  in a way that doesn't alienate large swathes of the country. That would be the best outcome for everyone involved. But given the choices BoJo has made so far, the next few years will be rough.

(And Scotland of course is very welcome as soon as it leaves the sinking ship.)

Norway is a worse outcome than membership because Britain would just be a rule-taker in that scenario. They would have to pay into the EU budget and abide by EU regulations without having any say in them. Norway's option is more applicable to Norway than Britain because fishing is a much bigger issue and so Norway gets to stay out of the Common Fisheries Policy. Norway is the opposite of taking back control. EU membership is the best deal because Britain gets the benefits of membership and a role in setting them. This is probably off the table for 20 years or if polls start showing consistently 60% + support for rejoining (but even then, will Britain be able to get the same very generous terms from the EU? Probably not). A soft Brexit and in the long-term rejoining the customs union is definitely a good idea. Sadly, with this government and their idiotic promise to negotiate a full free trade deal in less than a year, it's going to probably be a pretty barebones deal that goes hard on the sovereignty in the sovereignty vs market access trade off, the British economy will suffer significantly as a result and trade deals with the US won't compensate (and could make things worse, yes the NHS is under threat).

The thing is, Britain doesn't deserve a say in European regulations. They have clearly demonstrated that they can't be trusted with that power. They would just undermine the EU from the inside, as they have been for 40 years.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Farage's farewell speech. I hope the EU takes his words to heart. The Union is a disingenuous violation of national sovereignty and it needs to be destroyed.

Oh my God you're also one of these f**king people. Good grief. One minute you're posting well-researched effortposts and the next you're back with the bottom-of-the-barrel dumbass cold takes.

[Antonio the Sixth]

We really do need a preemptive ban on Americans posting in the international boards. People who actually know their stuff like Brucejoel can subsequently be let back in, of course.

[Antonio the Sixth]

A Corbyn government would have ultimately done a lot of economic damage to the UK; do you think that those with the wealth would have accepted the result?

The sooner Labour moves on from the Corbyn aberration the better.

In historical terms, I suspect Blairism (or more specifically, the pro-war pro-privatisation late period version that people like you are so strangely fond of) will prove to be the real aberration.

And the "success" of Change UK shows how much appetite exists for it in the UK now.

There wasn't much of an appetite for Corbyn's Labour either. He was toxic. Pretty terrible when County Durham returns more Conservative MPs than Labour. Downright depressing in fact.

Corbyn and corbynism are very different things.

[Antonio the Sixth]

What about the Labour leadership election?

[Antonio the Sixth]

In non-virus news, the "zombie" boundary review for the Commons started a decade ago by Cameron appears to have been finally put out of its misery. The government now says a new review will begin, with - crucially - 650 seats rather than 600 as was previously planned. The inflexible 5% maximum variation in electorate sizes is staying for now, but I suspect even that may be changed in due course.

Fantastic news!!!

[Antonio the Sixth]

Obviously BoJo doesn't deserve to die and I wish him a full recovery.

However, I do have to say this serves him well for his disastrous management of the outbreak thus far. Usually, it's only ever regular people who pay the price for the mistakes of the ruling elite. It is nice to see that for once, a politician is forced to bear personal consequences for their actions. If that happened more often, the world would be a better place.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Does it matter in the slightest what the polls are saying now?

[Antonio the Sixth]

I didn't wake up today expecting Vince Comrade Cable to come out in support of Dengism, but here we go.

I assume he's being serious here, but I honestly have no idea:

https://twitter.com/vincecable/status/1253020673573871617

MARX ENGELS LENIN STALIN CLEGG CAMERON

[Antonio the Sixth]

West Wing-itis is indeed a serious affliction of the political class in this country.

Why? It is such an overrated show. Borgen any day over it.

I don't think those shows are as different as people love to say they are. Like sure, if you want to look at a few specific plot points Borgen is a little more grounded, but their basic vision of politics is really the same.

I say this as someone who's been a fan of both and now feels he's outgrown them.

[Antonio the Sixth]

The lobbies system was already, in normal times, one of the stupidest ways for a parliamentary body to hold votes that I could conceive. The fact that MPs are still clinging to it in the current situation does nothing to dispel my prejudices about the inferiority of English culture.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Three new polls tonight, all of which show a Tory lead in the region of 2/3 points. The tide has clearly shifted from a few weeks ago - will it shift any further?

I noticed this earlier as well. Is this just Cummings plus some new leader goodwill for Starmer, or is there something more going on? Either way, it would be funny if in a years time we are in another Blare situation where Labour is well ahead in the polls, but can't capitalize on those numbers for a several years.

That would be an absolute monster swing if it occurred in an election result. Even the swing the Tories received in 2010 against Labour wouldn't be enough for Labour to win the popular vote. On a uniform swing too even a Blair level swing might not be enough for a Labour majority. However if Labour does get such a large swing it would probably be larger in some target seats, though how exactly such a swing would end up playing out is pretty unclear at this early stage.

Relevant:

Swing as a meaningful metric is just a myth at this point, honestly (if it was ever worth anything to begin with). Every election is a blank slate.

If you have a situation in which a large majority of the electorate has a strong affinity with either of the two major parties, then swing tends to be very useful as a gauge in that sense; after all, when that is the case then there is a hard limit on the extent to which public opinion can actually shift. When that is not the case (i.e. now, but also before the 1950s) then, yes, every election is a blank slate.

[Antonio the Sixth]

https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/uk-foreign-secretary-fire-taking-knee-comments-71320239

Britain’s foreign secretary has drawn criticism after he suggested in an interview that taking a knee appeared to be from “Game of Thrones” and was a symbol of subjugation.

Dominic Raab told talkRADIO Thursday that he understood the frustration driving the Black Lives Matter movement, before adding: “I’ve got to say on this taking the knee thing - which I don’t know, maybe it’s got a broader history - but it seems to be taken from the ‘Game Of Thrones’.”


“It feels to me like a symbol of subjugation and subordination, rather than one of liberation and emancipation,” he said. "But I understand people feel differently about it, so it is a matter of personal choice.”

For all the sh*t the T***p admin gets, we really can't overlook how deeply and astonishingly stupid the BoJo cabinet collectively is.

[Antonio the Sixth]

lol 
https://twitter.com/ladyhaja/status/1305548261126795264

"Dear voters, here is what you could have won".

That's terrible news for Ed Miliband

[Antonio the Sixth]

This is where we are at folks

https://twitter.com/lgbtqiacatfem/status/1356971438012567553

None of this will ever get reported as the joke it is. No journo will investigate the dark money funding this crap, the links with right wing US 'heritage' groups and the endless threats of lawsuits for anyone taking transphobia to task. Because they are all making money off of it.

There's a crisis in British feminism, with British cis women, just as dangerous and destructive as men falling down into the incel, alt-right etc pipeline over the past few years.

Ah yes, the Two Genders: "Apple" and "Summer Fruits"

(also, if one side has anime memes and the other has lame post-its, I know which side I'm on!)

[Antonio the Sixth]

What's the story here exactly? Can someone give me a quick rundown? This sounds hilarious.

[Antonio the Sixth]

What's the story here exactly? Can someone give me a quick rundown? This sounds hilarious.

Honestly too hard to explain without watching the video below but a combination of people managed to make the zoom recording of a Parish Council Meeting that went off the rails go viral.

Parish Ccouncils  are the lowest levels of local government in England, have very small or non-non existent budgets and have a reputation of being dominated by the eccentric, the elderly and busy bodies.

This meeting was pretty much an argument about whether to even have the meeting & Zoom made it 100 times better.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/feb/05/handforth-insults-and-expletives-turn-parish-council-meeting-into-internet-sensation

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgGmYeAm0jk

Oh fascinating. I'll give it a watch when I have some time.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Jonathan Pie says it best, as always.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Boris Johnson needs to stand his ground.

The conservative party overwhelming wanted him to be their leader. Not MPs but the actually voters.

The UK wanted him to be PM in 2019 and gave him a strong majority.

There are segments of the conservative party that never liked him and never truly accepted him as leader despite the nationwide party wanting him.

All these resignations are traitors. Rishi Sunak Sajid Javid are jumping ship because they want to be PM, not morals.

This is just not how parliamentary systems work, sorry.

[Antonio the Sixth]

https://twitter.com/TulipSiddiq/status/1545080985355780096

Was looking at the local by-elections for Thursday to see if anything interesting happened and this popped up.  They don't count the votes until Friday AM.  Kind of a confusing locale.  In the May election the voters filled two seats, one Con and one Labor won, however the Labor candidate was a paper candidate as Labor had never won in anything approximating this jurisdiction.  The Labor candidate felt he had work obligations that prevented him from serving on council so he resigned immediately hence the by-election.  And according to Andrew's preview, the bookies say the LD candidate is the favorite . 

As for the other local by-elections on Thursday, there was only one Con defense and they lost, in fact finished 3rd behind the Greens and LD (even with UKIP standing down).  Labor almost lost a seat to the Greens and Labor won a seat from an Indy.   

hahahahahahahahahahahahaha

this is just pathetic