UK General Discussion:The Rt. Hon Alex Boris de Pfeffel Johnson, Populist Hero

[DaWN]

And now for the spectacle of it all going horrendously wrong

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

See you back (hopefully) soon, Scotland.

[afleitch]

https://mobile.twitter.com/JamesMelville/status/1223381423194824704

The EU Commission building. They left a light on.

I'm gone. Absolutely in tears.

[Starry Eyed Jagaloon]

Tragic. It's time to start the rejoin campaign today. Britain will be back by 2030, in the eurozone, and schengen. 🇪🇺

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

It's time to start the rejoin campaign today.

At what point and under what circumstances is the British body politic allowed to start focusing on other issues?

[Starry Eyed Jagaloon]

It's time to start the rejoin campaign today.

At what point and under what circumstances is the British body politic allowed to start focusing on other issues?

When my side unequivocally wins.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

It's time to start the rejoin campaign today.

At what point and under what circumstances is the British body politic allowed to start focusing on other issues?

When my side unequivocally wins.

So, never.

[Tintrlvr]

I think it has also showed up in other polls before.

I think it has showed up in polls quite consistently too.

People used to say the same of Quebec independence, though, and then the tides shifted in youth opinion and now the youth are one of the most opposed groups. NI is different because it's a fundamental demographic shift (more Catholics, fewer Protestants), although even there isn't not completely clear-cut.

[afleitch]

It's time to start the rejoin campaign today.

At what point and under what circumstances is the British body politic allowed to start focusing on other issues?

England's relationship with Europe has been it's sole body politic since Caesar landed at Deal.

[Antonio the Sixth]

The UK should never under any circumstance rejoin the EU. Even if they elect a government that wants to, any sane European country must veto that request. If there's one thing we've learned from this debacle, it's that De Gaulle was right.

Now, I sincerely hope that y'all will eventually be able to work your way back into a Norway-style arrangement  in a way that doesn't alienate large swathes of the country. That would be the best outcome for everyone involved. But given the choices BoJo has made so far, the next few years will be rough.

(And Scotland of course is very welcome as soon as it leaves the sinking ship.)

[Democratic Hawk]

I cried.

I seethed

[OSR stands with Israel]

Today was a Great Day for Britain

[Democratic Hawk]

Today was a Great Day for Britain

Doesn't feel like it

[OSR stands with Israel]

Today was a Great Day for Britain

Doesn't feel like it

The EU has become a total disgrace and my wish was it would be replaced with something like NAFTA but for Europe but since its not Im happy the UK is leaving.

[Progressive Pessimist]

It's almost heartwarming to see that the deaths of both the United Kingdom and United States managed to line up on the same day! It's almost like a  suicide pact. We truly are each others' closest allies!

[Intell]

I'm normal, I don't give a fyck whether the UK leaves the EU or not, it would have been better to remain because we wouldn't have to deal with this sh!t show, but don't care on this meaningless cultural divide anyway.

[Pericles]

The UK should never under any circumstance rejoin the EU. Even if they elect a government that wants to, any sane European country must veto that request. If there's one thing we've learned from this debacle, it's that De Gaulle was right.

Now, I sincerely hope that y'all will eventually be able to work your way back into a Norway-style arrangement  in a way that doesn't alienate large swathes of the country. That would be the best outcome for everyone involved. But given the choices BoJo has made so far, the next few years will be rough.

(And Scotland of course is very welcome as soon as it leaves the sinking ship.)

Norway is a worse outcome than membership because Britain would just be a rule-taker in that scenario. They would have to pay into the EU budget and abide by EU regulations without having any say in them. Norway's option is more applicable to Norway than Britain because fishing is a much bigger issue and so Norway gets to stay out of the Common Fisheries Policy. Norway is the opposite of taking back control. EU membership is the best deal because Britain gets the benefits of membership and a role in setting them. This is probably off the table for 20 years or if polls start showing consistently 60% + support for rejoining (but even then, will Britain be able to get the same very generous terms from the EU? Probably not). A soft Brexit and in the long-term rejoining the customs union is definitely a good idea. Sadly, with this government and their idiotic promise to negotiate a full free trade deal in less than a year, it's going to probably be a pretty barebones deal that goes hard on the sovereignty in the sovereignty vs market access trade off, the British economy will suffer significantly as a result and trade deals with the US won't compensate (and could make things worse, yes the NHS is under threat).

[Former President tack50]

Worth noting that if Britain rejoins the EU has said they will lose their opt outs.

In other words, the UK would need to join Schengen, adopt the euro as its currency, etc

[Cassius]

The UK should never under any circumstance rejoin the EU. Even if they elect a government that wants to, any sane European country must veto that request. If there's one thing we've learned from this debacle, it's that De Gaulle was right.

Now, I sincerely hope that y'all will eventually be able to work your way back into a Norway-style arrangement  in a way that doesn't alienate large swathes of the country. That would be the best outcome for everyone involved. But given the choices BoJo has made so far, the next few years will be rough.

(And Scotland of course is very welcome as soon as it leaves the sinking ship.)

Given that the EU issue is purely a means for the SNP to lever Scotland out of the United Kingdom (which, for the record, I believe should happen at this stage), I imagine Scotland rejoining will be dropped in the event of independence, once it becomes clear that rejoining means returning to what is essentially the current status quo between Scotland and the rest of the United Kingdom, but being a much smaller presence in the European Parliament vs the House of Commons.

[DaWN]

It's time to start the rejoin campaign today.

At what point and under what circumstances is the British body politic allowed to start focusing on other issues?

When my side unequivocally wins.

So, never.

He has a point though. Brexit is an issue is not going to magically disappear, nor are the people who have become attached to either side going to detach that now that Brexit itself has happened. Remainers are angry, betrayed and no longer in the mood to compromise with the bigoted masses, while Leavers are triumphant, empowered and equally no longer in the mood to compromise with the metropolitan elite. The ideas and issues surrounding Brexit are now here to stay and going back to the old ways. Now I don't agree with Rejoin as a philosophy or a policy but the ideas that were behind the Remain campaign over the last few years are not going to disappear. Leavers underestimate those forces at their peril and the left (including Labour) underestimate its importance to the opposition to their government at their peril.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

It won't go away as an issue - much as it didn't after the 1970s! - but there's a fundamental difference between 'not going away' and 'absolutely dominating'. The intelligent thing for those in favour of British membership of the EU to do now would be to scale back and let the argument make itself. Much as it did fifty years ago.

[DaWN]

It won't go away as an issue - much as it didn't after the 1970s! - but there's a fundamental difference between 'not going away' and 'absolutely dominating'.

I think you misunderstand somewhat - I don't mean the issue itself will dominate, I mean the divisions and cleavages that have been created by the issue will dominate. Even if Leave and Remain is not what is being argued, the two 'political camps' that have been created by the issue will be centre to whatever other issues are in the road ahead.

The intelligent thing for those in favour of British membership of the EU to do now would be to scale back and let the argument make itself. Much as it did fifty years ago.

This I absolutely agree with.

[Silent Hunter]

It won't go away as an issue - much as it didn't after the 1970s! - but there's a fundamental difference between 'not going away' and 'absolutely dominating'. The intelligent thing for those in favour of British membership of the EU to do now would be to scale back and let the argument make itself. Much as it did fifty years ago.

(The Treaty of) Rome wasn't built in a day[1]. I'd personally see what the future relationship looks like - I doubt a No Deal will happen - and then argue for a closer relationship. Ukraine would be a good intermediate step.

[1]I know it's now offically the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union.

[CumbrianLefty]

And let's not forget the dirty little secret of all too many (no, not all) of the PV/#FBPE campaigners - ultimately stopping Brexit was always secondary to stopping Corbyn, and some were quite clear off the record as seeing it as a ramp using a "wedge issue" to return Labour to the supposed "grown ups".

So whilst they will be sad today, maybe not that sad. The bottom line is that, if forced to choose, they always preferred Johnson and Brexit to Corbyn and no Brexit.

This should not be airbrushed out of things now.

[Silent Hunter]

A Corbyn government would have ultimately done a lot of economic damage to the UK; do you think that those with the wealth would have accepted the result?