UK General Discussion:The Rt. Hon Alex Boris de Pfeffel Johnson, Populist Hero

[afleitch]

How long before he gets an account here?

I’d expect him to get an account on voteuk first if he joined a political forum but thinking about that made me laugh.

I get a good laugh out of voteuk and its continuity UKIP wallopers.

[afleitch]

So in this weeks TERF Wars, after Philip Pullman survived an anti-trans pile on, the gender critters declared Terry Pratchett as one of their own to which his own daughter said 'absolutely not' as did friend Neil Gaiman and a plethora of fans.

To settle the debate, Sarah Ditum

https://mobile.twitter.com/adamndsmith/status/1422462734776610855

[CumbrianLefty]

How long before he gets an account here?

I’d expect him to get an account on voteuk first if he joined a political forum but thinking about that made me laugh.

I get a good laugh out of voteuk and its continuity UKIP wallopers.

I hear they feel similarly about you

(btw did wonder at first whether Cassius on here was a certain Vote UK regular, not so much now)

[Cassius]

I mean, the only paper I read on a regular basis is the Guardian so as usual you’re missing the point. Frankly, expecting ‘science, reason and any kind of realistic data-based (lol) policy’ to inform decision making in this situation (as in any other) was always a fantasy. Of course someone like Cummings, having spent x-number of years huddled up in a County Durham bunker imbibing Otto Von Bismarck through his eyeballs, might actually con himself into believing that, but someone like you with a bit of common sense shouldn’t.

[afleitch]

How long before he gets an account here?

I’d expect him to get an account on voteuk first if he joined a political forum but thinking about that made me laugh.

I get a good laugh out of voteuk and its continuity UKIP wallopers.

I hear they feel similarly about you

(btw did wonder at first whether Cassius on here was a certain Vote UK regular, not so much now)

I love how seriously annoyed people get with me. I'm not even trolling; I'm making legitimate posts

[Continential]

It is also funny thinking what would atlas be like if Cummings hypothetically joined.

[Zinneke]

I mean, the only paper I read on a regular basis is the Guardian so as usual you’re missing the point. Frankly, expecting ‘science, reason and any kind of realistic data-based (lol) policy’ to inform decision making in this situation (as in any other) was always a fantasy. Of course someone like Cummings, having spent x-number of years huddled up in a County Durham bunker imbibing Otto Von Bismarck through his eyeballs, might actually con himself into believing that, but someone like you with a bit of common sense shouldn’t.

Even if it were the case it doesn't mean the media should turn every single Covid measure into a culture war.

[CumbrianLefty]

I mean, the only paper I read on a regular basis is the Guardian

This.......surprises me.

[Cassius]

I mean, the only paper I read on a regular basis is the Guardian

This.......surprises me.

Well, it’s free (because I am a good Tory voter and thus mean and tight fisted as regards all potential items of expenditure bar booze and cricket tickets) and reading their opinion section gives my blood vessels good exercise in the morning.

[Conservatopia]

To add to the above: reading in the Guardian that the Tories are far-right makes me feel better about being a Tory.  It's a bit like the joke about the two Jews reading an anti-Semitic paper.

[Estrella]

I mean, the only paper I read on a regular basis is the Guardian

This.......surprises me.

Well, it’s free (because I am a good Tory voter and thus mean and tight fisted as regards all potential items of expenditure bar booze and cricket tickets) and reading their opinion section gives my blood vessels good exercise in the morning.

To add to the above: reading in the Guardian that the Tories are far-right makes me feel better about being a Tory.  It's a bit like the joke about the two Jews reading an anti-Semitic paper.

Something I've been wondering about - what would y'all's ideal Tory party look like?

[Conservatopia]

Something I've been wondering about - what would y'all's ideal Tory party look like?

You mean what ideology would it have if it was modelled after me?  Probably a cross between Law & Justice (PiS) and Civic Democratic Party (ODS).  I'm not an ideologue so whilst my ideal party would definitely be more right wing than it is now I can't say what specific ideology it would follow beyond broader themes like "conservatism" and "unionism" like it does now.

If you mean my ideal party structure etc for the Tories then that's a deeper issue.  I suppose federalisation (hobby horse alert) of the party would be one thing along with a more open selection process for candidates.  I guess something similar to the structure and processes of the Canadian Tories.

For the leadership election I would prefer if it was more similar to the Labour party's process.  That way the membership would have a wider choice of candidates instead of just two to pick from.

[CumbrianLefty]

So in this weeks TERF Wars, after Philip Pullman survived an anti-trans pile on, the gender critters declared Terry Pratchett as one of their own to which his own daughter said 'absolutely not' as did friend Neil Gaiman and a plethora of fans.

To settle the debate, Sarah Ditum

https://mobile.twitter.com/adamndsmith/status/1422462734776610855

Ditum has responded to her humiliation by claiming she is, guess what, being "silenced".

Can't they at least come up with something a bit more original?

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Insert your own 'What They Want To Hear In The Red Wall' joke here!

The claim is a dubious one anyway. The industry had been in decline for most of the 20th century and was already in a death spiral by the 1980s. The significance of its death as a major industry under Thatcher and Major was the brutality of the end, not the end. After all, deep mining for coal has ended or nearly ended in every 'advanced' economy,* generally on a timescale strikingly similar to that seen in Britain and I do not believe that Margaret Thatcher was in charge of any land other than this.

_{*'Modern' coal extraction largely taking place in huge open-cast works of one form or another. Occupational communities do not, as a general rule, form themselves around such operations...}

[Filuwaúrdjan]

So in this weeks TERF Wars, after Philip Pullman survived an anti-trans pile on, the gender critters declared Terry Pratchett as one of their own to which his own daughter said 'absolutely not' as did friend Neil Gaiman and a plethora of fans.

To settle the debate, Sarah Ditum

The whole thing has been utterly bizarre and embarrassing. Even if you overlook cries of 'absolutely not' from his daughter, his batman and an old friend and collaborator, one of the most consistent themes in his work is a constant advocacy of that very specific sort of laissez-faire countryside tolerance that holds that individuals are wonderful and that if someone wants to call themselves this or that then it's their business ain't it?

[afleitch]

So in this weeks TERF Wars, after Philip Pullman survived an anti-trans pile on, the gender critters declared Terry Pratchett as one of their own to which his own daughter said 'absolutely not' as did friend Neil Gaiman and a plethora of fans.

To settle the debate, Sarah Ditum

The whole thing has been utterly bizarre and embarrassing. Even if you overlook cries of 'absolutely not' from his daughter, his batman and an old friend and collaborator, one of the most consistent themes in his work is a constant advocacy of that very specific sort of laissez-faire countryside tolerance that holds that individuals are wonderful and that if someone wants to call themselves this or that then it's their business ain't it?

TERFism is clawingly British (with a 'respectable' veneer) and journo/author centric so it's to be expected the push back comes from the same circles. When it's from two of my faves in defence of a third it's quite the cherry.

Speaking of cherries, Rosie Duffield is now liking Douglas Murray tweets. Rots the brain this stuff.

[Blair]

So in this weeks TERF Wars, after Philip Pullman survived an anti-trans pile on, the gender critters declared Terry Pratchett as one of their own to which his own daughter said 'absolutely not' as did friend Neil Gaiman and a plethora of fans.

To settle the debate, Sarah Ditum

The whole thing has been utterly bizarre and embarrassing. Even if you overlook cries of 'absolutely not' from his daughter, his batman and an old friend and collaborator, one of the most consistent themes in his work is a constant advocacy of that very specific sort of laissez-faire countryside tolerance that holds that individuals are wonderful and that if someone wants to call themselves this or that then it's their business ain't it?

TERFism is clawingly British (with a 'respectable' veneer) and journo/author centric so it's to be expected the push back comes from the same circles. When it's from two of my faves in defence of a third it's quite the cherry.

Speaking of cherries, Rosie Duffield is now liking Douglas Murray tweets. Rots the brain this stuff.

The interesting thing is how much of an identity it becomes.

I honestly do not know what actual parliamentary work she has done as an MP in the last year, other than get sacked from the whips office.

[Libertas Vel Mors]

So in this weeks TERF Wars, after Philip Pullman survived an anti-trans pile on, the gender critters declared Terry Pratchett as one of their own to which his own daughter said 'absolutely not' as did friend Neil Gaiman and a plethora of fans.

To settle the debate, Sarah Ditum

https://mobile.twitter.com/adamndsmith/status/1422462734776610855

Tbf, I'm not sure I really trust children talking about their parents politics retrospectively either, especially from a woke perspective.

[Blair]

I see the Conservative party has fallen back in love with Mr Wilson.

[afleitch]

So in this weeks TERF Wars, after Philip Pullman survived an anti-trans pile on, the gender critters declared Terry Pratchett as one of their own to which his own daughter said 'absolutely not' as did friend Neil Gaiman and a plethora of fans.

To settle the debate, Sarah Ditum

https://mobile.twitter.com/adamndsmith/status/1422462734776610855

Tbf, I'm not sure I really trust children talking about their parents politics retrospectively either, especially from a woke perspective.

Except the 'politics' comes from the authors own work.

[afleitch]

I see the Conservative party has fallen back in love with Mr Wilson.

They'll fall out of love if they grasp that Wilson gave miners other work through various employment schemes.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

The thing about the NCB's 'rationalisation' programme in the 1960s was that the coalfields most affected were older ones that largely produced high quality coal - steam coal or coking coal - for which demand had collapsed due to structural changes in the rest of the economy. Nearly all coal-fired power stations were built to run on lower grade stuff. For these collieries the practical impact of nationalisation turned out to be to delay closures that would otherwise have come thick and fast in the 1950s for a decade or so. But it's hard to see how they could have lasted longer and, note, the NUM leadership of the day did not actually argue that they ought to. They understood as well as anyone that the end was coming. This is the background to the huge wave of closures in the 1960s and early 1970s. Only an idiot would deem what happened political.

The situation was different in the 1980s. Essentially the Thatcher government knew that the opening up of the great oil and gasfields in the North Sea would mean the end of energy dependence on thermal coal. They knew that this would mean the end of what was left of the coal industry and, critically, that this would mean the end of the NUM as a significant political actor. They wished for revenge for the humiliation of 1973/4 and so decided to move the timeline forward, reasoning that any gaps created by the progressive closure of the pits that produced thermal coal could be covered by imports until what later became known as the 'dash for gas' began. Scargill, for whatever reason, played right into their hands and what happened, happend.

[CumbrianLefty]

So in this weeks TERF Wars, after Philip Pullman survived an anti-trans pile on, the gender critters declared Terry Pratchett as one of their own to which his own daughter said 'absolutely not' as did friend Neil Gaiman and a plethora of fans.

To settle the debate, Sarah Ditum

https://mobile.twitter.com/adamndsmith/status/1422462734776610855

Tbf, I'm not sure I really trust children talking about their parents politics retrospectively either, especially from a woke perspective.

The idea that Pratchett's own daughter understands better what he "really" meant, rather than some TERF ideologue, doesn't strike me as inherently outrageous tbh.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Except the 'politics' comes from the authors own work.

Quite. Pratchett did, of course, have his more small 'c' conservative aspects (or as he liked to put it, in his mischievous way, he was 'so left wing that I'm coming back at you from the right'), but in this case they actually led him to the position that can be clearly inferred from his work; that his family and associations state that he held. Besides, there is nothing wrong in the family of a deceased writer defending his or her memory.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Except the 'politics' comes from the authors own work.

Quite. Pratchett did, of course, have his more small 'c' conservative aspects (or as he liked to put it, in his mischievous way, he was 'so left wing that I'm coming back at you from the right'), but in this case they actually led him to the position that can be clearly inferred from his work; that his family and associations state that he held.

Shades of C.S. Lewis arguing for decriminalizing homosexuality on the quintessentially Tory grounds of disliking "interferers and busybodies". Although obviously Pratchett wouldn't have had anything like the same personal and philosophical views on the matter as Lewis.