UK General Discussion:The Rt. Hon Alex Boris de Pfeffel Johnson, Populist Hero

[Geoffrey Howe]

I'm fairly sure that anyone who worshipped Boris as part of some sort of cult is against lockdowns and consequently feels betrayed.

[cp]

Marina Hyde on the Johnson cult:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/may/28/cult-britain-boris-johnson-prime-minister

Not everything she writes is good, but that penultimate paragraph ranks amongst the most cutting and coruscating that any member of the pundit class has dared to utter about (some of) their fellows.

That paragraph could have been written with reference to this forum, and for all the good it will do it might as well have been.

Useless.

[Silent Hunter]

Is he Catholic? I heard on the radio that he was married at Westminster Cathedral.

For the non-Brits reading this, that's an 11-minute walk from the Abbey and next to Victoria Station.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

Leaked picture from Johnson's secret wedding!

[CumbrianLefty]

Marina Hyde on the Johnson cult:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/may/28/cult-britain-boris-johnson-prime-minister

Not everything she writes is good, but that penultimate paragraph ranks amongst the most cutting and coruscating that any member of the pundit class has dared to utter about (some of) their fellows.

That paragraph could have been written with reference to this forum, and for all the good it will do it might as well have been.

Useless.

Really? Not aware of that many equivalents of Goodwin/Cole/Payne on here tbh.

(though as ever, your mileage may vary)

[S019]

Joanna Cherry has stepped down from the SNP NEC

https://twitter.com/joannaccherry/status/1399394596371763207

[Blair]

Surprised she was still on it- although this is a bit like if Tom Watson quit the NEC in 2019. Her disagreeing with the leadership is a water is wet moment.

[CumbrianLefty]

The party treasurer has stepped down too, and like Cherry they are citing "transparency".

[Pericles]

Is he right? Boris Johnson says no evidence to delay 21 June reopening

His instincts have been wrong three times before, so it's not particularly reassuring. The UK recording no deaths today and still cases in the low thousands are great numbers. However, the scientists are worried a lot about the Indian variant (now called Delta?). Its increased transmissibility is boosting case numbers slightly, but it's hard to tell whether it will cause a significant amount of deaths. The vulnerable populations have already been vaccinated, so those who are unvaccinated should have less severe illness. However, it's unknown exactly how low the death risk is and how much the Delta variant will spread, so maybe there is cause to worry and push the reopening back a bit.

[(no subject)]

The fact that Boris is now married to someone young enough to be his daughter really needs to stick in more throats than it has .

[Geoffrey Howe]

There comes a point where we’re going to have to say goodbye to all COVID restrictions. We can’t keep putting our head in the sand. I wonder whether it’ll end up like post-war rationing.

I can’t comment on these studies specifically, but it is extraordinary some of the data/assumptions which go into some of the scientists’ models. They deserve a lot more public scrutiny,

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

The fact that Boris is now married to someone young enough to be his daughter really needs to stick in more throats than it has .

I don't see why any voter ought to care about the age of Boris' wife and not, you know, more relevant things, like how he runs the country. You know, stuff that actually matters...

[NewYorkExpress]

The fact that Boris is now married to someone young enough to be his daughter really needs to stick in more throats than it has .

I don't see why any voter ought to care about the age of Boris' wife and not, you know, more relevant things, like how he runs the country. You know, stuff that actually matters...

The age of Boris Johnson's wife is about as relevant as the age of Emmanuel Macron's wife.

[YL]

I'm fairly sure that anyone who worshipped Boris as part of some sort of cult is against lockdowns and consequently feels betrayed.

I don't think anti-lockdown sentiment is that widespread in the UK, especially among the sort of authoritarian followers most likely to form part of a cult of someone like Johnson.

[YL]

There comes a point where we’re going to have to say goodbye to all COVID restrictions. We can’t keep putting our head in the sand. I wonder whether it’ll end up like post-war rationing.

I can’t comment on these studies specifically, but it is extraordinary some of the data/assumptions which go into some of the scientists’ models. They deserve a lot more public scrutiny,

Sorry, can you give some examples of some of these "extraordinary" data or assumptions?

[Blair]

I'm fairly sure that anyone who worshipped Boris as part of some sort of cult is against lockdowns and consequently feels betrayed.

I don't think anti-lockdown sentiment is that widespread in the UK, especially among the sort of authoritarian followers most likely to form part of a cult of someone like Johnson.

Yeah it’s over-egged in political circles because of social media- the recent London mayoral election showed that it’s a rather fringe position.

[Zinneke]

There comes a point where we’re going to have to say goodbye to all COVID restrictions. We can’t keep putting our head in the sand. I wonder whether it’ll end up like post-war rationing.

I can’t comment on these studies specifically, but it is extraordinary some of the data/assumptions which go into some of the scientists’ models. They deserve a lot more public scrutiny,

Saying goodbye to all Covid restrictions is not gonna happen until the pandemic, in the strictest sense of the word, ends. Why is only Cummings flagging up the disastrous border policies that led to the Indian variant becoming widespread in the first place? I get that people want to see their families but we all have to make sacrifices, and a 10 day quarantine on entry like Taiwan and Australia enforced wouldn't have gone amiss. The UK doesnt have the excuse of "We're not an island so we can't control who comes in and out" that the EU deployed for its total mismanagement of travel. I travelled twice for work purposes and twice i could have got away scott free without any quarantine whatsoever, just a sh**tty QR code.

Point being : yet again the debate seems to be a black-white "FREEDOM, LEAVE US ALONE" vs an imaginary enemy, the Public Health Officials that somehow are hell bent on ruining armchair reactionaries who didnt get out much before 2020 anyway. When really the debate should be which measures are effective and allow us to resume normal life the quickest way possible.

[Geoffrey Howe]

I'm fairly sure that anyone who worshipped Boris as part of some sort of cult is against lockdowns and consequently feels betrayed.

I don't think anti-lockdown sentiment is that widespread in the UK, especially among the sort of authoritarian followers most likely to form part of a cult of someone like Johnson.

But nor is/was a cult following of Boris Johnson. Cult worshippers tend not to be very logical; hence you have them supporting various authoritarian measures whilst decrying the loss of liberty during the pandemic.

[Geoffrey Howe]

There comes a point where we’re going to have to say goodbye to all COVID restrictions. We can’t keep putting our head in the sand. I wonder whether it’ll end up like post-war rationing.

I can’t comment on these studies specifically, but it is extraordinary some of the data/assumptions which go into some of the scientists’ models. They deserve a lot more public scrutiny,

Sorry, can you give some examples of some of these "extraordinary" data or assumptions?

I can dig out the specifics if you like, but off the top of my head Neil Ferguson to come up with 500,000 deaths assumed that no one vulnerable (mainly the old) would take any precautionary measures of their own and back in February/March they were using data from December when vaccination rates were very low.

[Geoffrey Howe]

There comes a point where we’re going to have to say goodbye to all COVID restrictions. We can’t keep putting our head in the sand. I wonder whether it’ll end up like post-war rationing.

I can’t comment on these studies specifically, but it is extraordinary some of the data/assumptions which go into some of the scientists’ models. They deserve a lot more public scrutiny,

Saying goodbye to all Covid restrictions is not gonna happen until the pandemic, in the strictest sense of the word, ends. Why is only Cummings flagging up the disastrous border policies that led to the Indian variant becoming widespread in the first place? I get that people want to see their families but we all have to make sacrifices, and a 10 day quarantine on entry like Taiwan and Australia enforced wouldn't have gone amiss. The UK doesnt have the excuse of "We're not an island so we can't control who comes in and out" that the EU deployed for its total mismanagement of travel. I travelled twice for work purposes and twice i could have got away scott free without any quarantine whatsoever, just a sh**tty QR code.

Point being : yet again the debate seems to be a black-white "FREEDOM, LEAVE US ALONE" vs an imaginary enemy, the Public Health Officials that somehow are hell bent on ruining armchair reactionaries who didnt get out much before 2020 anyway. When really the debate should be which measures are effective and allow us to resume normal life the quickest way possible.

That’s the root of the problem.

[Cassius]

The pandemic is over - the disease in now endemic in the UK but that ultimately doesn’t matter because we can now combat it with vaccines. 60% of the UK population (including children) have had at least one dose of the vaccine, that’ll probably rise to about 66% by June 21st based on the current pace of vaccinations. Nearly all of the most vulnerable groups have now had their two vaccines. It’s Summer. There’s no evidence that the “Indian” or any other variant has the ability to evade the vaccine in any significant way. It’s over and it’s time to return to normal.

[YL]

I'm fairly sure that anyone who worshipped Boris as part of some sort of cult is against lockdowns and consequently feels betrayed.

I don't think anti-lockdown sentiment is that widespread in the UK, especially among the sort of authoritarian followers most likely to form part of a cult of someone like Johnson.

But nor is/was a cult following of Boris Johnson. Cult worshippers tend not to be very logical; hence you have them supporting various authoritarian measures whilst decrying the loss of liberty during the pandemic.

Do you deny that there's a substantial part of the UK population with an irrational liking for Johnson (who they call "Boris", of course) which is very unresponsive to the repeated evidence of his many manifest flaws?  (It appears to be well represented in Hartlepool, for a start.)  Or are you just taking issue with the use of the word "cult"?

I do suggest reading The Authoritarians by Bob Altemeyer (freely available online).  There are plenty worse authoritarian movements than Johnsonian populism (Trumpism for a start) but it definitely has some of the characteristics.

[Geoffrey Howe]

I'm fairly sure that anyone who worshipped Boris as part of some sort of cult is against lockdowns and consequently feels betrayed.

I don't think anti-lockdown sentiment is that widespread in the UK, especially among the sort of authoritarian followers most likely to form part of a cult of someone like Johnson.

But nor is/was a cult following of Boris Johnson. Cult worshippers tend not to be very logical; hence you have them supporting various authoritarian measures whilst decrying the loss of liberty during the pandemic.

Do you deny that there's a substantial part of the UK population with an irrational liking for Johnson (who they call "Boris", of course) which is very unresponsive to the repeated evidence of his many manifest flaws?  (It appears to be well represented in Hartlepool, for a start.)  Or are you just taking issue with the use of the word "cult"?

I do suggest reading The Authoritarians by Bob Altemeyer (freely available online).  There are plenty worse authoritarian movements than Johnsonian populism (Trumpism for a start) but it definitely has some of the characteristics.

I do think there is something of an apolitical liking of Boris for whatever reason, but I don’t think many people think he’s been a particularly good PM or some sort of saviour like the more deranged Trump supporters. I’ll admit this did exist before the pandemic and related to Brexit, but most of those people I do think are against lockdowns. Anecdotally, I know someone who is a staunch Tory Brexiteer who was a big fan of Boris back in 2019 (voted for him as party member) but is disillusioned over lockdowns and his leftward drift. He voted Laurence Fox for mayor of London.

As for Hartlepool, I suspect a lot of newly Tory voters there are aware of his flaws, but like his (perceived or real) communitarian stance and showering money on these places.

[YL]

Do you deny that there's a substantial part of the UK population with an irrational liking for Johnson (who they call "Boris", of course) which is very unresponsive to the repeated evidence of his many manifest flaws?  (It appears to be well represented in Hartlepool, for a start.)  Or are you just taking issue with the use of the word "cult"?

I do suggest reading The Authoritarians by Bob Altemeyer (freely available online).  There are plenty worse authoritarian movements than Johnsonian populism (Trumpism for a start) but it definitely has some of the characteristics.

I do think there is something of an apolitical liking of Boris for whatever reason, but I don’t think many people think he’s been a particularly good PM or some sort of saviour like the more deranged Trump supporters. I’ll admit this did exist before the pandemic and related to Brexit, but most of those people I do think are against lockdowns. Anecdotally, I know someone who is a staunch Tory Brexiteer who was a big fan of Boris back in 2019 (voted for him as party member) but is disillusioned over lockdowns and his leftward drift. He voted Laurence Fox for mayor of London.

Well, that he voted for Fox suggests that he is not very representative...

(Well, I suspect that he may be reasonably representative of a subgroup who are very politically engaged -- lockdown sceptics are seriously over-represented on the Vote UK forum -- but the sort of people I'm talking about aren't very politically engaged.)

As for Hartlepool, I suspect a lot of newly Tory voters there are aware of his flaws, but like his (perceived or real) communitarian stance and showering money on these places.

Look at the response he got when he went there.

[Geoffrey Howe]

Also, I don't think he really cultivates a cult, beyond ruffling his hair and whatnot which doesn't really engender a "cult" following.
Certainly, the Fox voter isn't representative of the country, but he's the sort of person who greatly admired Boris previously. The sorts of people who like him aren't particularly committed, I think.

Interestingly - I don't know whether this matches up with your experience - I think he is representative of a very patriotic, but also individualistic Thatcherite working/lower-middle class. IIRC the hardcore of the Thatcherite base was the not particularly affluent but very aspirational type (her father, for example).