UK General Discussion:The Rt. Hon Alex Boris de Pfeffel Johnson, Populist Hero

[Blair]

There hasn't been much discussion about this; I'm not that clued up on the situation but it did seem to be the first time in a while where the Government, Labour, the DUP and the Irish Government all seemed in agreement that the EU had played it's hand extremely poorly with it's threat to basically impose controls on the Irish border.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-01-30/faced-with-a-vaccine-emergency-the-eu-made-an-enemy-of-everyone

As an FYI it's interesting how the brexit lense still clouds people's thoughts; I've seen a lot of FBPE types saying this is all completely the fault of Boris Johnson & that the EU have every right to do this...

An open question as we don't have an EU thread; how much of this stuff comes from the fact that we have a relatively new head of the commission?

I remember there being quite a lot of anger that she was parachuted in because they wanted to stop the EPP & Socialist picks winning & becauss she was a Merkel ally?

[Zinneke]

There hasn't been much discussion about this; I'm not that clued up on the situation but it did seem to be the first time in a while where the Government, Labour, the DUP and the Irish Government all seemed in agreement that the EU had played it's hand extremely poorly with it's threat to basically impose controls on the Irish border.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-01-30/faced-with-a-vaccine-emergency-the-eu-made-an-enemy-of-everyone

As an FYI it's interesting how the brexit lense still clouds people's thoughts; I've seen a lot of FBPE types saying this is all completely the fault of Boris Johnson & that the EU have every right to do this...

An open question as we don't have an EU thread; how much of this stuff comes from the fact that we have a relatively new head of the commission?

I remember there being quite a lot of anger that she was parachuted in because they wanted to stop the EPP & Socialist picks winning & becauss she was a Merkel ally?

Von Der Leyen was a terrible pick but this is something the Health Commissioner should resign for as it's her purview. Problem is she's unknown. And therein lies the issue of democratic deficit in the EU. VdL is only under pressure because in the German sphere she is the figurehead. The rest of the EU citizens will blame the entire EU structure because "Brussels is in charge*

[Blair]

In SNP news Joanna Cherry has been sacked from the frontbench.

Not a huge shock; she's a close ally of Salmond & had a big falling out after the party HQ pretty much blocked her from becoming an MSP- it was widely believed she wanted to do this so she could replace Sturgeon as First Minister.

She's also drawn rather a lot of attention due to her stance on trans right & her rather creative use of twitter...

[CumbrianLefty]

Even if not surprising, this is something of a Rubicon crossed by Sturgeon.

[jaymichaud]

https://twitter.com/electionmapsuk/status/1356239328444346368?s=21

Thoughts?

[Zinneke]

If Alliance get past DUP do they get dibs on First Minister?

[GALeftist]

In SNP news Joanna Cherry has been sacked from the frontbench.

Not a huge shock; she's a close ally of Salmond & had a big falling out after the party HQ pretty much blocked her from becoming an MSP- it was widely believed she wanted to do this so she could replace Sturgeon as First Minister.

She's also drawn rather a lot of attention due to her stance on trans right & her rather creative use of twitter...

Ahahahahaha



(For those OOTL she showed this image in Parliament a while back because she is a TERF and wanted to whine about being bullied on Twitter)

[morgieb]

In SNP news Joanna Cherry has been sacked from the frontbench.

Not a huge shock; she's a close ally of Salmond & had a big falling out after the party HQ pretty much blocked her from becoming an MSP- it was widely believed she wanted to do this so she could replace Sturgeon as First Minister.

She's also drawn rather a lot of attention due to her stance on trans right & her rather creative use of twitter...

Ahahahahaha



(For those OOTL she showed this image in Parliament a while back because she is a TERF and wanted to whine about being bullied on Twitter)

Why the f**k do all these British "feminists" turn into massive transphobes? These people are insane.

[Blair]

The fact that she's retweeting praise of herself certainly shows that the stories talking about her ego aren't exactly wrong.

[CumbrianLefty]

Its a particular sort of feminism that is susceptible to TERFism.

(basically the lifestyle based "what matters above all is getting women into prominent positions and actual structural inequality be damned" type - one well represented in the UK's political/media class)

[Cassius]

Its a particular sort of feminism that is susceptible to TERFism.

(basically the lifestyle based "what matters above all is getting women into prominent positions and actual structural inequality be damned" type - one well represented in the UK's political/media class)

I try to avoid following this particular debate in which Cherry has found herself embroiled, but this characterisation is simply not accurate given that Cherry is clearly well within the left-wing mainstream of her party on every issue except the transgender one (and made her career as a lawyer working on sex crimes, hardly the path that a lawyer unconcerned with social issues would try to carve out, and one that has probably helped shape her position on this particular issue, for good or ill).

[Alcibiades]

The Guardian is reporting that Labour strategists plan to make the party’s branding and messaging more “patriotic” (e.g. making prominent use of Union flags in their imagery) to win back the fabled “Red Wall” seats.

Personally, I find this kind of thing somewhat sickening, especially coming from the left-of-centre (and if they went overboard with it, it would make up my mind to vote Lib Dem if I felt both had an equal chance of winning my constituency), but I suppose I can’t complain if this does actually help to break the Tory majority (which I’m not sure either way if it will), and it doesn’t translate into actual policy.

This also got me thinking again about Gordon Brown’s encounter with the “bigoted woman”. I view it as a truly tragic moment in British politics, not because of how it may or may not have affected that general election, but because cemented it being taboo to dismiss concerns about “mass immigration” as being scapegoating not grounded in economic reality.

[afleitch]

The Guardian is reporting that Labour strategists plan to make the party’s branding and messaging more “patriotic” (e.g. making prominent use of Union flags in their imagery) to win back the fabled “Red Wall” seats.

Personally, I find this kind of thing somewhat sickening, especially coming from the left-of-centre (and if they went overboard with it, it would make up my mind to vote Lib Dem if I felt both had an equal chance of winning my constituency), but I suppose I can’t complain if this does actually help to break the Tory majority (which I’m not sure either way if it will), and it doesn’t translate into actual policy.

This also got me thinking again about Gordon Brown’s encounter with the “bigoted woman”. I view it as a truly tragic moment in British politics, not because of how it may or may not have affected that general election, but because cemented it being taboo to dismiss concerns about “mass immigration” as being scapegoating not grounded in economic reality.

It was the only thing he was right on.

[Statilius the Epicurean]

This also got me thinking again about Gordon Brown’s encounter with the “bigoted woman”. I view it as a truly tragic moment in British politics, not because of how it may or may not have affected that general election, but because cemented it being taboo to dismiss concerns about “mass immigration” as being scapegoating not grounded in economic reality.

Honestly my perception is that this moment has become much more important in hindsight (past few years) than it was considered at the time.

As for patriotism...

https://twitter.com/sundersays/status/1356710844894167046?s=19

[Alcibiades]

This also got me thinking again about Gordon Brown’s encounter with the “bigoted woman”. I view it as a truly tragic moment in British politics, not because of how it may or may not have affected that general election, but because cemented it being taboo to dismiss concerns about “mass immigration” as being scapegoating not grounded in economic reality.

Honestly my perception is that this moment has become much more important in hindsight (past few years) than it was considered at the time.

As for patriotism...

https://twitter.com/sundersays/status/1356710844894167046?s=19

Fair point, but that was before English nationalism was such a mainstream force. I appreciate if they’re trying to reclaim these symbols as those of a proud, tolerant Britain, as happened in the 90s with the Union Jack, after its association with the National Front and football hooligans throughout the 80s, but I fear that is not the case.

[Statilius the Epicurean]

What do you fear is the case?

[Alcibiades]

What do you fear is the case?

That this leaked strategy is not attempting to use this imagery to define a positive, inclusive, non-nationalistic British patriotism, but rather will cede more ground to the Tory position on English nationalism and immigration.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

As for patriotism...

https://twitter.com/sundersays/status/1356710844894167046?s=19

Exactly, it's... the Labour Party? This is what it has always done, how it has always campaigned.

[EastAnglianLefty]

This also got me thinking again about Gordon Brown’s encounter with the “bigoted woman”. I view it as a truly tragic moment in British politics, not because of how it may or may not have affected that general election, but because cemented it being taboo to dismiss concerns about “mass immigration” as being scapegoating not grounded in economic reality.

Honestly my perception is that this moment has become much more important in hindsight (past few years) than it was considered at the time.

It's often forgotten that Rochdale was a Labour gain in 2010, so it didn't even have an impact locally. The mythologising of the incident really got going as part of the 2010 Labour leadership election, for reasons that in retrospect had little to do with national electoral politics.

[IceAgeComing]

If Alliance get past DUP do they get dibs on First Minister?

No; since they are not a Unionist or Nationalist Party.  The rules on allocation are that the First Minister and Deputy First Minister must come from different communities; and the First Minister comes from the largest party of the largest community while the Deputy First Minister (which is an equal office: Co-First Ministers would be a better comparison) comes from the largest party of the other community.  The only exception is if the largest party is a cross-community party when they'd be First Minister and the largest party of the largest community would be Deputy First Minister.  The Alliance aren't finishing first in an election any time soon; so the First Minister will only realistically be a DUP or Sinn Fein politician.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Maureen Colquhoun, Labour MP for Northampton North 1974-9, has died at the age of 92. She was Britain's first openly homosexual MP, though until recently had been largely written out of that narrative for various reasons. Even today she has generally been described as the first 'openly lesbian MP' - correct, but only half the story. Her tumultuous time in Parliament was not long, but her time in public life was, and it is probably fair to call her 'a character'.

[CumbrianLefty]

Maureen Colquhoun, Labour MP for Northampton North 1974-9, has died at the age of 92. She was Britain's first openly homosexual MP, though until recently had been largely written out of that narrative for various reasons. Even today she has generally been described as the first 'openly lesbian MP' - correct, but only half the story. Her tumultuous time in Parliament was not long, but her time in public life was, and it is probably fair to call her 'a character'.

Interesting tribute to her from Angela Eagle on LabourList. Amongst other things it revealed that, no doubt scarred by her own experiences, MC had advised her not to "come out" - maybe not fully taking into account how things had moved on in the previous 20 years.

Her final decades were spent in my neck of the woods, still a party activist until very recently. And she remained with the woman she left her husband for until the end of her life. RIP.

[cp]

Its a particular sort of feminism that is susceptible to TERFism.

(basically the lifestyle based "what matters above all is getting women into prominent positions and actual structural inequality be damned" type - one well represented in the UK's political/media class)

I try to avoid following this particular debate in which Cherry has found herself embroiled, but this characterisation is simply not accurate given that Cherry is clearly well within the left-wing mainstream of her party on every issue except the transgender one (and made her career as a lawyer working on sex crimes, hardly the path that a lawyer unconcerned with social issues would try to carve out, and one that has probably helped shape her position on this particular issue, for good or ill).

Sadly, being well ensconced in left wing circles and ideology is no inoculation against TERFy beliefs, at least not in the UK. I wouldn't be surprised if you're correct in your supposition about her work as a lawyer working sexual assault cases being the genesis of her anti-trans views; it's a depressingly common backstory.

[afleitch]

This is where we are at folks

https://twitter.com/lgbtqiacatfem/status/1356971438012567553

None of this will ever get reported as the joke it is. No journo will investigate the dark money funding this crap, the links with right wing US 'heritage' groups and the endless threats of lawsuits for anyone taking transphobia to task. Because they are all making money off of it.

There's a crisis in British feminism, with British cis women, just as dangerous and destructive as men falling down into the incel, alt-right etc pipeline over the past few years.

[Oryxslayer]

Its a particular sort of feminism that is susceptible to TERFism.

(basically the lifestyle based "what matters above all is getting women into prominent positions and actual structural inequality be damned" type - one well represented in the UK's political/media class)

I try to avoid following this particular debate in which Cherry has found herself embroiled, but this characterisation is simply not accurate given that Cherry is clearly well within the left-wing mainstream of her party on every issue except the transgender one (and made her career as a lawyer working on sex crimes, hardly the path that a lawyer unconcerned with social issues would try to carve out, and one that has probably helped shape her position on this particular issue, for good or ill).

Sadly, being well ensconced in left wing circles and ideology is no inoculation against TERFy beliefs, at least not in the UK. I wouldn't be surprised if you're correct in your supposition about her work as a lawyer working sexual assault cases being the genesis of her anti-trans views; it's a depressingly common backstory.

My perspective as an outsider is that the the explicitly confrontational historical approach of the UK women's rights movement is what has made the island particularly TERF'y when compared against similar countries. The confrontational approach is arguably why those with a history of Feminist activism like Cherry might be the most likely to also view it as a binary struggle between men and women.