UK General Discussion:The Rt. Hon Alex Boris de Pfeffel Johnson, Populist Hero

[brucejoel99]

Thanks to the U.K"s COVID response, support for Scottish Independence is growing.

At the Scottish National Party's recent annual conference, Nicola Sturgeon, Scotland's first minister, said she had "never been so certain" that Scotland would become an independent nation.

"Who do we want to be in the driving seat of shaping Scotland's future?" she asked. "The Scottish government has not got everything right, far from it. But I doubt there are many people in Scotland who would have wanted Westminster to be more in charge of our pandemic response."

Sturgeon was referring to Prime Minister Boris Johnson's approach to the coronavirus, which has included a botched testing plan and repeated policy U-turns. With more than 63,000 deaths, the U.K. has the highest toll in Europe.

Johnson's performance is one reason why the last 15 polls show that — for the first time — most Scots consistently support leaving the United Kingdom. A poll in October found 58% of likely voters backed an independent Scotland. That is a big shift from 2014 when voters easily defeated a referendum on independence by 55% to 45%.

Here's a link to the most recent poll on Scottish Independence.

https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/record-public-support-scottish-independence

Hasn't Scotland only done marginally better than the rest of the UK in terms of their COVID response? I'm personally supportive of Scottish independence efforts but if I were them, I definitely wouldn't be citing COVID as anywhere close to one of the reasons for independence.

[CumbrianLefty]

Actually the latest poll shows support for Scottish independence down slightly.

(though still at - guess what - 52%)

[IceAgeComing]

The Scottish Govenment's communication has been a lot better but that's the biggest difference really: there never have been significant policy differences, only differences in timing really.  That difference has created a clear perception that the Scottish Government has handled it better and in reality that probably matters more than anything else.

If you are the Conservatives though you probably are a bit relieved that there isn't a clear major difference: would have strengthened the Independence case even more.

[Blair]

I believe the current plan to save the Union consists of putting the union flag on the vaccine & getting Michael Gove to shuffle papers around in Whitehall if that fills anyone with confidence.

[CumbrianLefty]

Johnson must be worth a few points to the independence polling, just personally.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Johnson must be worth a few points to the independence polling, just personally.

Oh he clearly is. One of the salient facts about polling for the independence question is the number rises and falls in response to the ups and downs of entirely (or mostly) unrelated political factors all the time.

[afleitch]

Johnson must be worth a few points to the independence polling, just personally.

Oh he clearly is. One of the salient facts about polling for the independence question is the number rises and falls in response to the ups and downs of entirely (or mostly) unrelated political factors all the time.

And having a PM who doesn't even pretend to believe in devolution is a big boost.

But you are correct. The shabbier the union looks, the worse it gets for the No's. There was a temporary boost post 2016 referendum. This one seems solid enough to last through actual Brexit/no trade deal to the elections in May.

[Cassius]

I believe the current plan to save the Union consists of putting the union flag on everything & getting Michael Gove to shuffle papers around in Whitehall if that fills anyone with confidence.

FTFY
The plan is that every bit of infrastructure or investment will be emblazoned with red, white and blue in a similar fashion to what the EU does when it builds a bridge or whatever.

Question is: is this enough or too little too late?

With regards to Johnson he may not be PM anymore in a year's time and the next PM just *might* be more popular in haggis country.  I'm pretty pessimistic personally and reckon Scots independence is nearly inevitable.  I hope I'm wrong.
In other news Liz Truss (!) is the most popular minister amongst the Tory membership.  She certainly has a growing fan club on the right and her speech this week attacking wokery won't hurt that.  Sunak still rides high in the opinion of the membership (and the public) and Patel is treading water with good approvals.

This shouldn't matter but it does because Johnson is steadily losing support in the party.  I doubt the requured number of letters will ever be reached (I reckon only 3 are sent) but might the infamous Grey Suits push him out?  Hope so.

I would’ve thought that now we’ve begun vaccinating, assuming it works, Johnson will probably be safe in the medium term, given the government now have the vague light on the hill of Easter/Summer/‘sometime in 2021’ to browbeat any opponents of further lockdowns with. On the latter subject I note with concern the way parts of the media have suddenly begun to revive the ‘Long COVID’ speculation now that we’ve begun to vaccinate the elderly and care home workers.

[Silent Hunter]

'Long Covid' seems to be for many "you're very tired for a few months after this" and "I'm anxious after suffering from a potentially deadly disease"; the jury is still out on how many people will have serious long-term health impacts.

[Alcibiades]

'Long Covid' seems to be for many "you're very tired for a few months after this" and "I'm anxious after suffering from a potentially deadly disease"; the jury is still out on how many people will have serious long-term health impacts.

‘Long Covid’ does seem to be consistent with classic postviral symptoms; I wouldn’t say it’s something especially shocking.

[Silent Hunter]

'Long Covid' seems to be for many "you're very tired for a few months after this" and "I'm anxious after suffering from a potentially deadly disease"; the jury is still out on how many people will have serious long-term health impacts.

‘Long Covid’ does seem to consistent with classic postviral symptoms; I wouldn’t say it’s something especially shocking.

Indeed. The West has become used to an environment without diseases of these ilk like TB and polio; our ancestors wouldn't have batted an eyelid at Covid-19 considering that they had plenty worse out there. I was reading about George V's older brother who died of "Russian flu", which is theorised by some to be a coronavirus that is now the common cold.

To be clear, I'm not an anti-masker - and I want my jab ASAP - but we need to be realistic about our response going forward, because this will not be our last pandemic.

[Pericles]

Random question but why does Boris Johnson get seen in high vis vests so much? Is he trying to make a subconscious point about linking himself with construction and economic growth?

[CumbrianLefty]

Cosplaying at being a "man of the people" innit.

[Blair]

Did anyone see that absolute bonkers speech by Liz Truss?

The part that has got attention was some rant about how the problem with Britain was that she was taught about Foucalt at school in the 1980s but wasn't taught how to read? Along with some rubbish about how New Labour/Cameron cared about the wrong sort of equality issues.

I honestly don't know what was more worrying; the fact that this is the Secretary of State for Equalities saying this or the fact that it was so obviously just playing to the Gallery

Random question but why does Boris Johnson get seen in high vis vests so much? Is he trying to make a subconscious point about linking himself with construction and economic growth?

All politicians are guilty of it but Boris as Mayor of London had a love for grand infrastructure projects but had no love for actually putting in the required effort (which is pretty much a theme of most parts of his life)

[Blair]

The most interesting thing you get to see after nearly 10 years of Government is which politicians are happy to bend to the wind, undergo multiple personality & get shuffled around various jobs- all so that they can stay at the table.

[CumbrianLefty]

Did anyone see that absolute bonkers speech by Liz Truss?

The part that has got attention was some rant about how the problem with Britain was that she was taught about Foucalt at school in the 1980s but wasn't taught how to read? Along with some rubbish about how New Labour/Cameron cared about the wrong sort of equality issues.

Apparently the bit about Foucault has now been erased from the online version of the speech.

[afleitch]

Did anyone see that absolute bonkers speech by Liz Truss?

The part that has got attention was some rant about how the problem with Britain was that she was taught about Foucalt at school in the 1980s but wasn't taught how to read? Along with some rubbish about how New Labour/Cameron cared about the wrong sort of equality issues.

I honestly don't know what was more worrying; the fact that this is the Secretary of State for Equalities saying this or the fact that it was so obviously just playing to the Gallery

Random question but why does Boris Johnson get seen in high vis vests so much? Is he trying to make a subconscious point about linking himself with construction and economic growth?

All politicians are guilty of it but Boris as Mayor of London had a love for grand infrastructure projects but had no love for actually putting in the required effort (which is pretty much a theme of most parts of his life)

I mean Trumpism is getting it's second term. It's just that it's here.

[CumbrianLefty]

Just as well that Trumpism is so popular in this country, then......

[afleitch]

Just as well that Trumpism is so popular in this country, then......

I'm afraid to say it probably is. Not Trump himself, but that same level of boorish reactive populism with Boris.

[CumbrianLefty]

Just as well that Trumpism is so popular in this country, then......

I'm afraid to say it probably is. Not Trump himself, but that same level of boorish reactive populism with Boris.

They are similar but not the same. "Get Brexit Done" aside (and yes, that *was* indeed the single biggest thing) the Tories did quite a bit of pretend centrism to win last year's election.

[Estrella]

Just as well that Trumpism is so popular in this country, then......

I'm afraid to say it probably is. Not Trump himself, but that same level of boorish reactive populism with Boris.

This is only vaguely on topic, but it's why I dislike people saying that country X is oh-so-progressive (or at least not reactionary) because a poll shows that everyone and their dog hates Trump: in UK's case, 76% would vote for Biden. Political analysts and people who think they are political analysts *cough* *cough* this place need to realize that in the real world, almost no-one cares about ideologies and policies of foreign politicians; the only thing they see is style, and they form their opinion based on that. Of course Europe has a more, uh, civilized political culture so everyone's going to hate Trump, but that doesn't mean they wouldn't support that sort of reactionary demagogy if it conforms to the style of politics they're familiar with. REEEE OBUMMERCARE will not get you very far in Europe, but REEEE EUROCRATS will.

[CumbrianLefty]

Of course we realise this, and indeed know it from our own electoral experiences.

Total undiluted Trumpism, however, will not do well in this country or most other W European ones. I feel pretty confident in saying that.

[cp]

Of course we realise this, and indeed know it from our own electoral experiences.

Total undiluted Trumpism, however, will not do well in this country or most other W European ones. I feel pretty confident in saying that.

At the risk of arguing semantics, what exactly do we mean by 'Trumpism' here? Depending on how you define the term, I could see a pretty convincing argument for how Berlusconi or Farage or LePen could fall into the Trumpist category and pretty clearly are capable of doing well. 

[𝕭𝖆𝖕𝖙𝖎𝖘𝖙𝖆 𝕸𝖎𝖓𝖔𝖑𝖆]

Of course we realise this, and indeed know it from our own electoral experiences.

Total undiluted Trumpism, however, will not do well in this country or most other W European ones. I feel pretty confident in saying that.

At the risk of arguing semantics, what exactly do we mean by 'Trumpism' here? Depending on how you define the term, I could see a pretty convincing argument for how Berlusconi or Farage or LePen could fall into the Trumpist category and pretty clearly are capable of doing well.  

I'm glad you mentioned Berlusconi and not Salvini, because I think there's a case to be made that the former is more 'Trumpist' than the latter.

(or arguably, given the chronological order, that Trump is 'Berlusconian')

[CumbrianLefty]

Well mentioning Farage sort of proves my point. He is popular - VERY popular - with a section of the UK electorate, but his politics is never going to actually win a "proper" election. Hopefully.