UK General Discussion:The Rt. Hon Alex Boris de Pfeffel Johnson, Populist Hero

[CumbrianLefty]

As already said there might not be a byelection at all - but if there *is* it probably won't be before May next year alongside the Holyrood elections. Which means the wider picture then will very likely matter.

[PSOL]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/06/c-of-e-bishops-should-lose-responsibility-for-safeguarding-children-says-inquiry

A damning report from the independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse (IICSA), published on Tuesday, said the C of E’s culture of deference and “clericalism” meant it was a place where abusers could hide.

But it stopped short of backing two key demands of survivors: mandatory reporting of abuse disclosures to statutory authorities and independent oversight of the C of E’s safeguarding policies and actions. It will consider these issues further in a future report.

[afleitch]

Slightly off topic but finally watched the first episode of Spitting Image

As someone old enough (cough) to have seen at least the last series before it went off the air, and who's watched them all since it has the same pace as the original series (long gaga, short gag, long gag, song) and was about fifty/fifty hit and miss.

What was a bit jarring was seeing Mike Pence as coloured grey (been done with John Major) and Priti Patel as a vampire (they did it with his former squeeze, Edwina Currie) though that sketch was probably the funniest for me. They also had Dominic Cummings as The Mekon from Dan Dare which isn't a point of reference for anyone younger than 65.

It's clear they've also used some really old moulds as I'm pretty sure saw Cilla Black

NBC, who they partnered with for a few specials in the 80's have backed out of showing it, which means the series will thankfully stay UK orientated.

[Blair]

Slightly off topic but finally watched the first episode of Spitting Image

As someone old enough (cough) to have seen at least the last series before it went off the air, and who's watched them all since it has the same pace as the original series (long gaga, short gag, long gag, song) and was about fifty/fifty hit and miss.

What was a bit jarring was seeing Mike Pence as coloured grey (been done with John Major) and Priti Patel as a vampire (they did it with his former squeeze, Edwina Currie) though that sketch was probably the funniest for me. They also had Dominic Cummings as The Mekon from Dan Dare which isn't a point of reference for anyone younger than 65.

It's clear they've also used some really old moulds as I'm pretty sure saw Cilla Black

NBC, who they partnered with for a few specials in the 80's have backed out of showing it, which means the series will thankfully stay UK orientated.

As you say there's a funny amount of revionism around Spitting Image.

People seem to view it as the high point of political satire but a lot of it did fall quite flat- it was only after watching a few full episodes (after seeing most of the famous bits & songs) that I realised that it didn't always hit perfectly.

Indeed I read that by the 1990s it was seen as quite tired & was on its last legs.

The most tiring thing about the new series has been watching various right wingers get wound up spitting that 'it's not the same now the woke brigade are in charge' 'I bet they won't slag off Dianne Abbott'. Talk about imagined enemies...

I haven't watched it yet but the Dominic Cummings character looked hilarous in the sketch I saw.

[CumbrianLefty]

I've found the few clips that I've seen almost dismally unfunny, but given that Matt Forde is one of the main contributors that wasn't too surprising really.

And the original was hit and miss yes, but did at least have *some* hits - arguably they should have called it a day after *that* post 1992 GE episode.

[TheTide]

Saw some clips of the new one. Seems to be more lewd than previously. When so many politicians are more or less cartoon characters in themselves it probably makes it more difficult.

One major difference between now and the mid-1990s is that there are far fewer standout 'celebrities', given the fragmentation of popular culture that modern technology has caused, thus perhaps it will be more politics-focussed. IIRC the original went more down the celebrity route in later series. This incarnation of it has arguably come on just a little too late. It has missed the fun of the 2015-2019 period just as the original missed the fun of the 1979-1983 period.

Btw, the 1987 election special is the best I've seen.

[CumbrianLefty]

Btw, the 1987 election special is the best I've seen.

I think the consensus is that it peaked around that time.

[Silent Hunter]

I'm watching Monty Python's Flying Circus on Netflix and that makes quite a few political jokes aimed at the Heath government in particular. Home Secretary Reginald Maudling was a common target for satire in general, especially when he resigned from that post in a bribery scandal.

Flying Circus can itself be very hit and miss - if one sketch is boring, something better will be along in a few minutes. The third season very much isn't the best, apart from the "Dennis Moore" episode; Chapman's alcoholism was pretty bad by that point for one thing.

[DaWN]

I'm watching Monty Python's Flying Circus on Netflix and that makes quite a few political jokes aimed at the Heath government in particular. Home Secretary Reginald Maudling was a common target for satire in general, especially when he resigned from that post in a bribery scandal.

Flying Circus can itself be very hit and miss - if one sketch is boring, something better will be along in a few minutes. The third season very much isn't the best, apart from the "Dennis Moore" episode; Chapman's alcoholism was pretty bad by that point for one thing.

I'm an unashamed Python fan and I find the 'hit and miss' nature of Flying Circus to be overstated - most of what you get in the first two seasons hits, at least for me. When Chapman began to lose control and Cleese began to lose interest in the third season is when it begins to fall apart a bit, but even then there's some good stuff in the last two seasons.

And to avoid going totally off topic, Flying Circus' best political joke is the Conservative candidate from the end of the Mr Hilter sketch.

[Estrella]

I'm watching Monty Python's Flying Circus on Netflix and that makes quite a few political jokes aimed at the Heath government in particular. Home Secretary Reginald Maudling was a common target for satire in general, especially when he resigned from that post in a bribery scandal.

Flying Circus can itself be very hit and miss - if one sketch is boring, something better will be along in a few minutes. The third season very much isn't the best, apart from the "Dennis Moore" episode; Chapman's alcoholism was pretty bad by that point for one thing.

I'm an unashamed Python fan and I find the 'hit and miss' nature of Flying Circus to be overstated - most of what you get in the first two seasons hits, at least for me. When Chapman began to lose control and Cleese began to lose interest in the third season is when it begins to fall apart a bit, but even then there's some good stuff in the last two seasons.

And to avoid going totally off topic, Flying Circus' best political joke is the Conservative candidate from the end of the Mr Hilter sketch.

[CumbrianLefty]

Monty Python still has more "hits" and fewer "misses" than any comparable series I can think of. And it also has what might arguably be the funniest thing ever (the "dirty fork" sketch)

[Blair]

Relatively big announcement from Keir Starmer calling for a 'circuit breaker' lockdown of two weeks in England.

[Silent Hunter]

Indeed. It may end up happening over half-term, which is w/c 26 October in Havering. However, you've got Halloween falling right at the end of that week, not an event conducive to social distancing.

[brucejoel99]

Relatively big announcement from Keir Starmer calling for a 'circuit breaker' lockdown of two weeks in England.

I don't know if Boris is hesitating because he needs a death toll first before he can make a national lockdown politically viable for the Tories, or if he's just genuinely dim enough to be sitting in his home right now & hoping it all fixes itself, but either way, this is an easy win for Starmer. The trend is there, & the people that'll be dying in 2 weeks as the UK approaches 500 deaths/day are already walking around infected now. As they were in March, the consequences of Boris' (in)actions are set in stone: he'll need to lock down when the chickens come home to roost, there'll be a human cost to not having done so sooner, & everybody will be asking why he didn't do it when advised.

[Blair]

Relatively big announcement from Keir Starmer calling for a 'circuit breaker' lockdown of two weeks in England.

I don't know if Boris is hesitating because he needs a death toll first before he can make a national lockdown politically viable for the Tories , or if he's just genuinely dim enough to be sitting in his home right now & hoping it all fixes itself, but either way, this is an easy win for Starmer. The trend is there, & the people that'll be dying in 2 weeks as the UK approaches 500 deaths/day are already walking around infected now. As they were in March, the consequences of Boris' (in)actions are set in stone: he'll need to lock down when the chickens come home to roost, there'll be a human cost to not having done so sooner, & everybody will be asking why he didn't do it when advised.

I think he's just frantically hitting every switch without having to press the two bigger buttons; the first being the circuit breaker & the second being a longer lockdown.

The thing that I don't get from the Tories side is who will lose from doing this? The MPs who'd oppose Boris doing this already oppose the even weaker restrictions and where the type of idiots salivating about a return to office life.

There's of course a whole host of reasons why this has happened & where we're at this stage but it certainly feels much like it did in March & September where everyone knew there was going to be new restrictions but it was just a case of waiting.

[Blair]

It's obvious in my view that the Government will eventually just move every region of the country (bar maybe Cornwall) into the High or High Risk group; so we'll be in a national lockdown but pretending it isn't a lockdown.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

It's obvious in my view that the Government will eventually just move every region of the country (bar maybe Cornwall) into the High or High Risk group; so we'll be in a national lockdown but pretending it isn't a lockdown.

And it will last longer - and so be more painful - as a result of doing it that way...

[urutzizu]

The UK (the country in general I mean, not the Government per se) seems to be reacting much harsher or more fearful to the second wave than almost any other European country, except perhaps Ireland. Across Europe restrictions are getting tighter, but almost nowhere a actual second national lockdown is being seriously considered, despite many countries having more serious Infection rates than the UK. In terms of positivity rate UK is actually in the lower half of Europe. Its also reflected in consumer confidence and google mobility data. Of course UK and Ireland have less resilient health case systems than much of Europe, but on the other hand during this Pandemic the UK has done well where it has actually followed the approaches by other European Countries and done badly where it went a different approach. You could even make the Argument that the "Circuit Breaker" is essentially a abstract form of British Exceptionalism, and that has tended not to really have brought the best results during the pandemic. Sage are not better than their Counterparts on the mainland.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Well let's just say that the meaning of the term 'lockdown' has been subject to some serious hyperinflation over the past few months in this country.

[afleitch]

Well let's just say that the meaning of the term 'lockdown' has been subject to some serious hyperinflation over the past few months in this country.

'This lockdown is terrible' methought as I browsed Primark.

[Serenity Now]

I rather agree Stephen Bush's take in the New Statesman Morning Call:

The argument that Johnson loyalists make is that he is pursuing a 'balanced' approach: a middle way between the circuit break lockdown favoured by Starmer and by Sage, and the 'let the economy and society adjust' favoured by lockdown sceptics on the right, such as Chris Green, the Conservative MP for Bolton West, who has resigned as a PPS in protest at the government's new lockdown measures.

But that argument falls down if you talk to, say, three businesses. No-one in business thinks that the restrictions in 'Tier 2' are a good environment to do business, let alone those in Tier 3, but at least in Tier 3 there is economic and financial support available to businesses. The government's current approach isn't a middle way - it's just a slow path to the same economic pain of a lockdown with a higher body count.

Sooner or later, you have to choose: do you want the Green approach or the Starmer approach? Johnson has yet to pick either and he is still kidding himself that there is a middle way to be found. That the Labour leader has got ahead of him and picked a side might be the biggest political development of the entire pandemic.

[Silent Hunter]

They seem to have spent three weeks discussing the SAGE recommendations before rejecting most of them.

Words fail.

[Blair]

The interesting thing is that the politician who could do worse out of this (well who should) is Sunak who is briefed as being the biggest opponent.

[afleitch]

In other news, support for Scottish independence has hit 58% in a poll by Ipsos/MORI.

[CumbrianLefty]

Though the VI figures for Holyrood (showing the SNP also on 58%) are a bit out of line with other recent polling (in particular, YouGov has shown a definite recent Nat dip - albeit to still around half the vote)