UK General Discussion:The Rt. Hon Alex Boris de Pfeffel Johnson, Populist Hero

[Silent Hunter]

Worse in a way. Cummings could at least claim a reasonable motive in heading to Durham, although why he didn't ask his niece to come down to London instead is a mystery and finding local childcare would have been hard - one mention of coronavirus and most people would not return the call.

Duffield, like Ferguson, seems to have been motivated by baser desire.

[CumbrianLefty]

The point is, a lot of us actually don't believe the stated Cummings motive - the strong suspicion of many of us is that he had the trip planned some time before lockdown in any event.

Duffield has at least done the right thing in response.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Cummings could at least claim a reasonable motive in heading to Durham, although why he didn't ask his niece to come down to London instead is a mystery and finding local childcare would have been hard - one mention of coronavirus and most people would not return the call.

The trouble there is that once in Durham he did not make use of the extra childcare support that he claims was a factor in the trip. It was also interesting to observe at his press conference that he did not seem to be sure of the exact ages of his nieces. You should also note the studied ambiguity around the central matter of whether he and his wife were ill and what with. There's a reason for that: if either had Covid (and thought they did) at the time of his trip north, then that would have been a clear breach of the quarantine order, but if neither did then the trip would be impossible to justify on the grounds that he has chosen.

Duffield, like Ferguson, seems to have been motivated by baser desire.

This would be the MoS's framing, yes. But the reality is more complicated than that, particularly if you're aware of certain details of her biography that really do... er... complicate a simple curtain-twitching reading. She was, of course, right to respond with 'my bad' and to then immediately quit her post, but this is an interesting example of how the lockdown has made things difficult for people with messy or difficult personal circumstances.

[CumbrianLefty]

Duffield's speech on relationship matters in the closing days of the pre-2019 GE parliament is certainly worth looking up if you aren't familiar with it already.

[EastAnglianLefty]

In the continuing clownshow that is UK politics, MPs are back in Westminster today voting on whether to continue to allow MPs to participate remotely.

The historical practice was for MPs to vote by walking through one of two lobbies to be counted. These lobbies are far too narrow for social distancing to be practicable. As an interim measure, the government allowed online voting and participation in debates under lockdown, but they have declined to continue this. As the historical practice still isn't feasible, they hit upon a replacement method whereby MPs would queue in a socially distance manner through the Palace of Westminster (for the best part of a kilometre) then announce their vote in the Commons chamber, one by one. This is certainly dramatic, but it's extremely slow and means it's very difficult for MPs shielding due to health issues, with childcare responsibilities or representing areas a long way from Westminster to participate.

The first test of the new system was a vote on whether to use it or to junk it in favour of the online system, which had worked tolerably well. There were a lot of Tory rebels, but not enough to bring back online voting. So it looks like we're stuck with ridiculous queues for the foreseeable, at least until Coronavirus starts circulating in Westminster again and the system falls apart.

[CumbrianLefty]

What a farce.

[Antonio the Sixth]

The lobbies system was already, in normal times, one of the stupidest ways for a parliamentary body to hold votes that I could conceive. The fact that MPs are still clinging to it in the current situation does nothing to dispel my prejudices about the inferiority of English culture.

[Serenity Now]

Polling conducted by YouGov during the last week of May (when Cummings' road trip was in the headlines) has identified a big decline in the level of public trust in UK government over coronavirus.

Not particularly surprising, of course, but this has very worrying implications.

The polling was carried out on behalf of the University of Oxford’s Reuters Institute, and their findings are summarised here.

[Blair]

Well PMQs was hilarous today.

[brucejoel99]

Well PMQs was hilarous today.

What an utter car crash. I've never seen Boris as rattled as he was when being questioned by Sir Keir, & his inability to answer the questions asked of him was very noticeable.

Boris is a man completely out of his depth & with no grasp of facts that should be at his fingertips. How can he not know what stage the the country is at when it's his own government's system? How is he oblivious to the R-value when he surely would've been briefed on it that day & it was likely to be raised in Parliament & at the daily briefing?

It's quite frankly pathetic that he spent the whole time whining about being held to account when that's exactly what Sir Keir is there to do.

[CumbrianLefty]

He reportedly kept looking to the benches behind him for support, but even now hardly anybody there.

Harry Cole apparently still tried to score it as a win for the PM, but the ridicule even from normal Tory supporters soon drowned that attempt at sophistry out.

[Serenity Now]

Well PMQs was hilarous today.

The way things are going I might have to start watching it again. I might even enjoy it.

[DaWN]

It's just so nice to have a proper Leader of the Opposition and not... well, what we had before, right?

[Serenity Now]

It's just so nice to have a proper Leader of the Opposition and not... well, what we had before, right?

As someone towards the left of the Labour party (though I've found the factionalism the most unappealing part of my experience of being a member) I had mixed feelings about the previous leader. So much so it often drove me to the point of madness. That seems to have gone away now so, yes, it does feel nice to have Starmer as leader.

For one thing, the prospect of going canvassing no longer fills me with dread. Of course that's a long way off anyway in the current circumstances.

[CumbrianLefty]

But any left winger also has to be honest that *part* of the difference is that at least some of the media are ready to give Starmer the time of day - in obvious contrast to the blanket unreflective indeed unthinking hostility that Corbyn received from the outset. Hearing people in the "real world" repeat that stuff totally parrot fashion was one of the most depressing aspects of the 2015-20 period.

[cp]

But any left winger also has to be honest that *part* of the difference is that at least some of the media are ready to give Starmer the time of day - in obvious contrast to the blanket unreflective indeed unthinking hostility that Corbyn received from the outset. Hearing people in the "real world" repeat that stuff totally parrot fashion was one of the most depressing aspects of the 2015-20 period.

Indeed. We shouldn't be surprised about it, but the transparency of the double standard to which Corbyn was subjected by the chattering classes has been placed on immaculate display by Starmer's first two months. Starmer's doing fine. Not outstanding, not dire, and mercifully devoid of own goals or missteps, but nothing especially deserving of worship. Yet, the commentary about his performance at PMQs has been so breathless, one wonders if Starmer's stans will have any superlatives left when the time comes that he does something to actually earn them!

Coming back to the original comment: One of the more dim-witted (not to mention obnoxious) slogans-masquerading-as-argument used in British politics is about having/lacking a 'proper opposition'. Corbyn's supporters denounced the Milliband era and post-Milliband rightist opposition using variations on that theme. Lib Dems deluded themselves about their marginal influence by calling themselves the 'real' opposition. The counterpart to this is the equally asinine rhetoric about what a 'real/proper' Prime Minister looks like. You hear that a lot in the US regarding the Presidency as well, usually tinged with racism given the most recent occupants of the White House.

In every case it's nothing but an expression of superficial tribalism, devoid of meaningful comment on the people/party/incident involved, or reflective of any trace of an underlying rational thought process. Ironically, it's most often deployed by the sort of people who believe their political views to be logically superior simply by dint of their instinctual knee-jerk approval/dislike of something.

[Silent Hunter]

It's not always tinged with racism. Obama is far more a proper President than Trump is.

[DaWN]

Or it could just be that Corbyn was sh!t

[Silent Hunter]

The media was definitely out to get Corbyn, but he and others had an knack of handing them the ammunition to do it, as well as never managing to deal with it effectively.

[cp]

The media was definitely out to get Corbyn, but he and others had an knack of handing them the ammunition to do it, as well as never managing to deal with it effectively.

They adopted a policy of 'ignore first' with any negative press, especially if it came from agitprop rightwing outlets. That probably wasn't the worst approach, especially when, as you rightly point out, they were never going to let him get a win no matter how he played it. Sadly, it also meant that legitimate criticism went unaddressed, to their immense detriment in the long run.

As for them giving ammunition, I think the point is that Corbyn's actions, no matter how banal, were treated as if they were potential ammunition. It's a category error to use the metaphor of ammunition/defense to understand the dynamic.

[Serenity Now]

But any left winger also has to be honest that *part* of the difference is that at least some of the media are ready to give Starmer the time of day - in obvious contrast to the blanket unreflective indeed unthinking hostility that Corbyn received from the outset. Hearing people in the "real world" repeat that stuff totally parrot fashion was one of the most depressing aspects of the 2015-20 period.

I'd agree to that (there was analysis like this and this though both examples are from quite early on) and I found the parroting depressing too. My mixed feelings allow room for that.

[EastAnglianLefty]

Meanwhile the Business Secretary is self-isolating after displaying coronavirus symptoms at the dispatch box.

[brucejoel99]

Meanwhile the Business Secretary is self-isolating after displaying coronavirus symptoms at the dispatch box.

So does that mean that BoJo is gonna have to self-isolate for 2 weeks again? Because one can obviously still spread it through contact regardless of one's immunity.

[cp]

Meanwhile the Business Secretary is self-isolating after displaying coronavirus symptoms at the dispatch box.

So does that mean that BoJo is gonna have to self-isolate for 2 weeks again? Because one can obviously still spread it through contact regardless of one's immunity.

Is that true? I'm not a medical doctor, but my best understanding of the literature on the matter is that it's still uncertain, mostly because COVID-19 is so new. I suppose anybody exposed to it could spread it via fomite transmission.

[Silent Hunter]

indeed. Also, until we get the test result back, we don't know it's Covid-19; he could just have a cold.