UK General Discussion:The Rt. Hon Alex Boris de Pfeffel Johnson, Populist Hero

[Antonio the Sixth]

A Corbyn government would have ultimately done a lot of economic damage to the UK; do you think that those with the wealth would have accepted the result?

The sooner Labour moves on from the Corbyn aberration the better.

In historical terms, I suspect Blairism (or more specifically, the pro-war pro-privatisation late period version that people like you are so strangely fond of) will prove to be the real aberration.

And the "success" of Change UK shows how much appetite exists for it in the UK now.

There wasn't much of an appetite for Corbyn's Labour either. He was toxic. Pretty terrible when County Durham returns more Conservative MPs than Labour. Downright depressing in fact.

Corbyn and corbynism are very different things.

[DaWN]

A Corbyn government would have ultimately done a lot of economic damage to the UK; do you think that those with the wealth would have accepted the result?

The sooner Labour moves on from the Corbyn aberration the better.

In historical terms, I suspect Blairism (or more specifically, the pro-war pro-privatisation late period version that people like you are so strangely fond of) will prove to be the real aberration.

And the "success" of Change UK shows how much appetite exists for it in the UK now.

There wasn't much of an appetite for Corbyn's Labour either. He was toxic. Pretty terrible when County Durham returns more Conservative MPs than Labour. Downright depressing in fact.

The logical conclusion to therefore draw is that neither approach is a successful one.

[Silent Hunter]

Indeed. Anyway, the full rollout of Universal Credit has been delayed to September 2024. Assuming BoJo repeals the FTPA and decides to go for a 'traditional' May election in 2024, it's going to be an election issue.

[CumbrianLefty]

A Corbyn government would have ultimately done a lot of economic damage to the UK; do you think that those with the wealth would have accepted the result?

The sooner Labour moves on from the Corbyn aberration the better.

In historical terms, I suspect Blairism (or more specifically, the pro-war pro-privatisation late period version that people like you are so strangely fond of) will prove to be the real aberration.

And the "success" of Change UK shows how much appetite exists for it in the UK now.

There wasn't much of an appetite for Corbyn's Labour either. He was toxic. Pretty terrible when County Durham returns more Conservative MPs than Labour. Downright depressing in fact.

The logical conclusion to therefore draw is that neither approach is a successful one.

And incredibly, I now see more (former?) Corbynites willing to admit that to at least some degree than continuity Blairites (just look at the stinking pile of turd deposited by the execrable Hodge in their Sunday house journal yesterday) Make no mistake, *they* are the worst "cult" in UK politics now.

[Silent Hunter]

They're engaging in a massive 'I told you so'.

[CumbrianLefty]

Yes, the relief they are finally able to use the "takes" they had ready and waiting in 2017 is pretty evident

[afleitch]

Indy at 50% and 52% in new polls from Panelbase and Survation. SNP at over 50% in polling for Holyood in both.

Terrible news for Ed Miliband.

[DaWN]

Indy at 50% and 52% in new polls from Panelbase and Survation. SNP at over 50% in polling for Holyood in both.

Terrible news for Ed Miliband.

It was indeed terrible news for Ed Miliband when the SNP colluded with the Tories to make sure he lost.

And am I the only one who thinks it only being a tiny majority in favour of independence is actually not a good thing for the independence movement? After all the Brexit crap the numbers are only slightly higher than what they've been since like December 2014 or so? I don't see that pointing to inevitable victory.

[brucejoel99]

Indy at 50% and 52% in new polls from Panelbase and Survation. SNP at over 50% in polling for Holyood in both.

Terrible news for Ed Miliband.

'Patriotic' Brexiteers 🤡 have made sure that Scottish independence is all-but-guaranteed. I guess that's a benefit for them, though, since it all-but-ensures perpetual Tory government, benefiting them with the state paying for their miserable existence, all to the detriment of the young.

[CumbrianLefty]

Indy at 50% and 52% in new polls from Panelbase and Survation. SNP at over 50% in polling for Holyood in both.

Terrible news for Ed Miliband.

'Patriotic' Brexiteers 🤡 have made sure that Scottish independence is all-but-guaranteed. I guess that's a benefit for them, though, since it all-but-ensures perpetual Tory government, benefiting them with the state paying for their miserable existence, all to the detriment of the young.

This myth really is a myth, but it stubbornly refuses to die.

[Cassius]

Indy at 50% and 52% in new polls from Panelbase and Survation. SNP at over 50% in polling for Holyood in both.

Terrible news for Ed Miliband.

'Patriotic' Brexiteers 🤡 have made sure that Scottish independence is all-but-guaranteed. I guess that's a benefit for them, though, since it all-but-ensures perpetual Tory government, benefiting them with the state paying for their miserable existence, all to the detriment of the young.

So... what do you believe exactly, that the old should be left to die in the road because a majority of them voted to leave the EU?

Besides, Scottish independence has been more likely than not since the Scottish Parliament was established; preventing Scotland being ‘dragged’ out of the EU is simply a (dubious) casus belli for the SNP to have another crack at a referendum.

[brucejoel99]

Indy at 50% and 52% in new polls from Panelbase and Survation. SNP at over 50% in polling for Holyood in both.

Terrible news for Ed Miliband.

'Patriotic' Brexiteers 🤡 have made sure that Scottish independence is all-but-guaranteed. I guess that's a benefit for them, though, since it all-but-ensures perpetual Tory government, benefiting them with the state paying for their miserable existence, all to the detriment of the young.

So... what do you believe exactly, that the old should be left to die in the road because a majority of them voted to leave the EU?

Besides, Scottish independence has been more likely than not since the Scottish Parliament was established; preventing Scotland being ‘dragged’ out of the EU is simply a (dubious) casus belli for the SNP to have another crack at a referendum.

The only thing here that's dubious is the argument that a significant change in circumstances is dubious.

[Cassius]

Indy at 50% and 52% in new polls from Panelbase and Survation. SNP at over 50% in polling for Holyood in both.

Terrible news for Ed Miliband.

'Patriotic' Brexiteers 🤡 have made sure that Scottish independence is all-but-guaranteed. I guess that's a benefit for them, though, since it all-but-ensures perpetual Tory government, benefiting them with the state paying for their miserable existence, all to the detriment of the young.

So... what do you believe exactly, that the old should be left to die in the road because a majority of them voted to leave the EU?

Besides, Scottish independence has been more likely than not since the Scottish Parliament was established; preventing Scotland being ‘dragged’ out of the EU is simply a (dubious) casus belli for the SNP to have another crack at a referendum.

The only thing here that's dubious is the argument that a significant change in circumstances is dubious.

Whether Scotland would be an EU member or not in the event of an independence vote was discussed in 2014, but was hardly the crux of the campaign. More to the point, the United Kingdom leaving the EU only represents a significant change in circumstances for Scotland should there be no free trade agreement between the UK and the EU+significant divergence in regulatory standards between the two. In that scenario, however, Scotland leaving a no-free trade agreement UK in order to rejoin the EU would be even more economically damaging for Scotland than staying put, given the considerably greater degree of economic interconnectedness between Scotland and the rest of the UK than between Scotland and the EU. This is a simple fact that belies the dubious ‘Scotland must be protected from a damaging no-deal Brexit’ case for independence.

[brucejoel99]

Indy at 50% and 52% in new polls from Panelbase and Survation. SNP at over 50% in polling for Holyood in both.

Terrible news for Ed Miliband.

'Patriotic' Brexiteers 🤡 have made sure that Scottish independence is all-but-guaranteed. I guess that's a benefit for them, though, since it all-but-ensures perpetual Tory government, benefiting them with the state paying for their miserable existence, all to the detriment of the young.

So... what do you believe exactly, that the old should be left to die in the road because a majority of them voted to leave the EU?

Besides, Scottish independence has been more likely than not since the Scottish Parliament was established; preventing Scotland being ‘dragged’ out of the EU is simply a (dubious) casus belli for the SNP to have another crack at a referendum.

The only thing here that's dubious is the argument that a significant change in circumstances is dubious.

Whether Scotland would be an EU member or not in the event of an independence vote was discussed in 2014, but was hardly the crux of the campaign. More to the point, the United Kingdom leaving the EU only represents a significant change in circumstances for Scotland should there be no free trade agreement between the UK and the EU+significant divergence in regulatory standards between the two. In that scenario, however, Scotland leaving a no-free trade agreement UK in order to rejoin the EU would be even more economically damaging for Scotland than staying put, given the considerably greater degree of economic interconnectedness between Scotland and the rest of the UK than between Scotland and the EU. This is a simple fact that belies the dubious ‘Scotland must be protected from a damaging no-deal Brexit’ case for independence.

From a democratic point of view, a change in circumstances from what was presumed to be likely before a referendum could very well invalidate the will behind the choice made in said referendum. Full stop. Now, I can't speak for Scotland but I'm more than fine with the vote being delayed until Brexit has been completed & the trade arrangements with the EU & USA are more clear than they currently are (&, in the meantime, the Scottish government needs to come up with a comprehensive, realistic plan for how Scotland would be run post-independence, & ought to commit to a confirmatory referendum on any deal with the UK that differs in any way from its plan too).

But let's be real here: this is BoJo we're talking about. He'll inevitably f**k up Brexit & Scotland will be in more turmoil than it currently is. I'm more than happy to wait for another year or 2 for a new referendum once we see what the terms of Brexit are (if BoJo actually manages to even get that far), but my initial point was that, if/when Scotland does get a new referendum (& BoJo should certainly just man up & allow them to have one), independence will be inevitable.

[The Dowager Mod]

This is interesting, too bad journalists in this country don't have the balls to do this.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Main news item to-day is the resignation - on Budget Day - of the Scottish finance minister under... um... something of a cloud.

[CumbrianLefty]

Just so stupid, apart from anything else.

Why do they do it?

[brucejoel99]

Main news item to-day is the resignation - on Budget Day - of the Scottish finance minister under... um... something of a cloud.

On what planet did this guy think that his behavior could possibly be okay? I mean, what the f**k!? He's a fairly high-profile politician contacting a kid who's 26 years younger than him!

[CumbrianLefty]

Not just "contacting" him, but continuing to pester him after he was politely told "no thanks".

[Frodo]

Indy at 50% and 52% in new polls from Panelbase and Survation. SNP at over 50% in polling for Holyood in both.

Terrible news for Ed Miliband.

Only somewhat related, but can someone please explain why there has to be an independent Scotland for there to be a reunited Ireland?  I never understood the relationship.  Why can't one happen without the other? 

[afleitch]

Not just "contacting" him, but continuing to pester him after he was politely told "no thanks".

Yes.

And that's the bigger issue; it's harrassment. Which is inexcusable.

[CumbrianLefty]

Mackay has now been suspended by the SNP, and his future as an MSP must be in some question.

[Silent Hunter]

And indeed his future as a free man.

[Kingpoleon]

Main news item to-day is the resignation - on Budget Day - of the Scottish finance minister under... um... something of a cloud.

That reminds me of an old saying I read in a book, the name of which is lost to me, referring to Parliament in the 1600s: “What is in the water in London?”

I laughed at his text asking a 16 year old if he supports independence, though.

[Penn_Quaker_Girl]

I'm having some Roy Moore-type flashbacks:

"It's not illegal, but it's wrong."