What is your opinion of Christianity?

[Oswald Acted Alone, You Kook]

The same as my opinion of all cults: An abusive indoctrination system that has wasted innumerable human lives with its insular delusions and anti-individualism. There were thousands of obscure desert cults in the ancient world, and the fact that this one happened to survive is the only reason why today we treat it any differently from Zeus or the moon goddess Nanna. It is a self-sustaining brainwashing organization that survives by emotionally abusing young people, making them feel as though they only have value as part of a greater community, and transforming them into unthinking, unquestioning followers of doctrine and scripture. The moment that we as a species banish it from our moral philosophy, our lives will be incomparably improved.

I see the word cult and you lost me. You know what cults are? Cluts are based on people, they associate with each other and shut off everyone else, they are unified under one real leadership, they don't let people leave, they blackmail people, they controll every aspact of the members lives.

You're talking about an international, leaderless, personal, dissolved, open religion. In fact there are thousands of types. A cult has one leader, and no single person is a leader of all Christendom. (That's a good thing, by the way.) While a few of those types do fit the description, most of them don't.

Cults and religions are different. Too many people think they are the same.

[°Leprechaun]

The same as my opinion of all cults: An abusive indoctrination system that has wasted innumerable human lives with its insular delusions and anti-individualism. There were thousands of obscure desert cults in the ancient world, and the fact that this one happened to survive is the only reason why today we treat it any differently from Zeus or the moon goddess Nanna. It is a self-sustaining brainwashing organization that survives by emotionally abusing young people, making them feel as though they only have value as part of a greater community, and transforming them into unthinking, unquestioning followers of doctrine and scripture. The moment that we as a species banish it from our moral philosophy, our lives will be incomparably improved.

[RFayette]

The same as my opinion of all cults: An abusive indoctrination system that has wasted innumerable human lives with its insular delusions and anti-individualism. There were thousands of obscure desert cults in the ancient world, and the fact that this one happened to survive is the only reason why today we treat it any differently from Zeus or the moon goddess Nanna. It is a self-sustaining brainwashing organization that survives by emotionally abusing young people, making them feel as though they only have value as part of a greater community, and transforming them into unthinking, unquestioning followers of doctrine and scripture. The moment that we as a species banish it from our moral philosophy, our lives will be incomparably improved.

If anything, we see evidence that children are born religious and that it is non-religion that requires a self-sustaining system to maintain.  Furthermore, it is unclear that a non-religious society would have incomparably better morality.  Why was slavery uncontroversial in ancient Greece but was abolished due to the efforts of a society - be it in the USA or England - strongly influenced by Christianity? 

[SingingAnalyst]

In terms of the teachings of Jesus, rather than historical Christianity, favorable on the whole. On a practical level I am probably as guilty of cherry-picking Scripture verses as anyone. But on the whole, as a Christian, I seek to (1) forgive others, and promote an atmosphere of forgiveness, to the extent reasonably possible and (2) to stand up for the underdog and those being unfairly attacked or excluded, like the leper at the pool (John 5:1-15).

While several parables and teachings are somewhat problematic (the parable of the ten minas, let the dead bury their own dead, you must hate your mother and father and even your own life, etc.-- and it must be noted that the authenticity of these passages is far less in dispute than "let he who is without sin cast the first stone", often cited as a favorite "liberal" teaching of Jesus); I'd like to focus on one that has been praised by some in the Feminist left lately: Matthew 5:27-28, "but I tell you, he who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery in his heart. If your right eye or hand [sic] causes you to sin, cut it off" (my paraphrase) These feminists point out that Jesus did not ask women to dress more modestly (though St. Paul certainly did!); he asked men to keep their "sinful" desires in check. As a member of a fundamentalist sect, as a young male in men's study groups, we were constantly reminded of the evils of lust, and I felt compelled to confess every little sin in this regard to my "discipleship partner", even if I caught myself almost immediately. This passage, which to me condemned innocent pleasure (as the song "Standing on the Corner" says, "you can't go to jail for what you're thinking") caused me a great deal of psychic pain.

[SingingAnalyst]

The same as my opinion of all cults: An abusive indoctrination system that has wasted innumerable human lives with its insular delusions and anti-individualism. There were thousands of obscure desert cults in the ancient world, and the fact that this one happened to survive is the only reason why today we treat it any differently from Zeus or the moon goddess Nanna. It is a self-sustaining brainwashing organization that survives by emotionally abusing young people, making them feel as though they only have value as part of a greater community, and transforming them into unthinking, unquestioning followers of doctrine and scripture. The moment that we as a species banish it from our moral philosophy, our lives will be incomparably improved.

The ironic truth is that, on the whole, I think most contemporary Evangelicals would feel a greater kinship with this statement than they would in the pews of most mainline Protestant (NCCCUSA-affiliated) churches.

[John Dule]

The same as my opinion of all cults: An abusive indoctrination system that has wasted innumerable human lives with its insular delusions and anti-individualism. There were thousands of obscure desert cults in the ancient world, and the fact that this one happened to survive is the only reason why today we treat it any differently from Zeus or the moon goddess Nanna. It is a self-sustaining brainwashing organization that survives by emotionally abusing young people, making them feel as though they only have value as part of a greater community, and transforming them into unthinking, unquestioning followers of doctrine and scripture. The moment that we as a species banish it from our moral philosophy, our lives will be incomparably improved.

If anything, we see evidence that children are born religious and that it is non-religion that requires a self-sustaining system to maintain.  Furthermore, it is unclear that a non-religious society would have incomparably better morality.  Why was slavery uncontroversial in ancient Greece but was abolished due to the efforts of a society - be it in the USA or England - strongly influenced by Christianity? 

Holy s**t you have got to be kidding right now. American slavery was a thousand times more brutal than slavery in the ancient world and it was developed by Christian societies in western Europe. If you want to give those cultures credit for then abolishing the thing they created, then at most that's a net zero for any claims to Christianity's superior morality. And babies are also born thinking that it's okay to run around naked in public and that Santa brings them presents on Christmas Eve. If we can outgrow one delusion, we can outgrow the others as well.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

The same as my opinion of all cults: An abusive indoctrination system that has wasted innumerable human lives with its insular delusions and anti-individualism. There were thousands of obscure desert cults in the ancient world, and the fact that this one happened to survive is the only reason why today we treat it any differently from Zeus or the moon goddess Nanna. It is a self-sustaining brainwashing organization that survives by emotionally abusing young people, making them feel as though they only have value as part of a greater community, and transforming them into unthinking, unquestioning followers of doctrine and scripture. The moment that we as a species banish it from our moral philosophy, our lives will be incomparably improved.

If anything, we see evidence that children are born religious and that it is non-religion that requires a self-sustaining system to maintain.  Furthermore, it is unclear that a non-religious society would have incomparably better morality.  Why was slavery uncontroversial in ancient Greece but was abolished due to the efforts of a society - be it in the USA or England - strongly influenced by Christianity? 

I hope you're not implying that ancient Greece was a non-religious society. It was non-Christian, but that's obviously not the same thing.

[RFayette]

The same as my opinion of all cults: An abusive indoctrination system that has wasted innumerable human lives with its insular delusions and anti-individualism. There were thousands of obscure desert cults in the ancient world, and the fact that this one happened to survive is the only reason why today we treat it any differently from Zeus or the moon goddess Nanna. It is a self-sustaining brainwashing organization that survives by emotionally abusing young people, making them feel as though they only have value as part of a greater community, and transforming them into unthinking, unquestioning followers of doctrine and scripture. The moment that we as a species banish it from our moral philosophy, our lives will be incomparably improved.

If anything, we see evidence that children are born religious and that it is non-religion that requires a self-sustaining system to maintain.  Furthermore, it is unclear that a non-religious society would have incomparably better morality.  Why was slavery uncontroversial in ancient Greece but was abolished due to the efforts of a society - be it in the USA or England - strongly influenced by Christianity? 

I hope you're not implying that ancient Greece was a non-religious society. It was non-Christian, but that's obviously not the same thing.

Sloppy wording, my bad.  My point of ancient Greece was that the moral conclusions we have come to weren’t inherently obvious without an anchor of divine revelation, and there are reasons to believe that Christianity had a large influence on the abolition of slavery and formed the basis of the idea of human rights.  You had less religious groups like the Epicureans that took little interest in the divine, but they still saw no moral problem with slavery.

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

Freedom of religion, not freedom from religion is inherent in the constitution.  It's not Heaven or hell anymore, its nirvana v enlightenment.  Also, West is adopting. reincarnation as opposed to judgement day. Jehovah Witness have eliminated eternal torment out of its philosophy and Buddhism and Hinduism as well. No one has to know your choice of religion, but whether you are secular or tolerant or status quo or traditional, religious humanitarian, like our political thoughts

[SingingAnalyst]

Freedom of religion, not freedom from religion is inherent in the constitution.  It's not Heaven or hell anymore, its nirvana v enlightenment. Jehovah Witness have eliminated eternal torment out of its philosophy and Buddhism and Hinduism as well. No one has to know your choice of religion, but whether you are secular or tolerant or status quo or traditional, religious humanitarian, like our political thoughts

Buddhism has a Hell, too. It's not unique to Christianity. I'm guessing traditional Buddhists in isolated areas in the East akin to hard-to-reach Appalachia in the US, experience fear and trembling as a result of this teaching.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Freedom of religion, not freedom from religion is inherent in the constitution.  It's not Heaven or hell anymore, its nirvana v enlightenment. Jehovah Witness have eliminated eternal torment out of its philosophy and Buddhism and Hinduism as well. No one has to know your choice of religion, but whether you are secular or tolerant or status quo or traditional, religious humanitarian, like our political thoughts

Buddhism has a Hell, too. It's not unique to Christianity. I'm guessing traditional Buddhists in isolated areas in the East akin to hard-to-reach Appalachia in the US, experience fear and trembling as a result of this teaching.

One eventually reincarnates out of Buddhist hell, though, so it's correct to say that eternal torment is absent from Buddhist theology.

[Former President tack50]

The same as my opinion of all cults: An abusive indoctrination system that has wasted innumerable human lives with its insular delusions and anti-individualism. There were thousands of obscure desert cults in the ancient world, and the fact that this one happened to survive is the only reason why today we treat it any differently from Zeus or the moon goddess Nanna. It is a self-sustaining brainwashing organization that survives by emotionally abusing young people, making them feel as though they only have value as part of a greater community, and transforming them into unthinking, unquestioning followers of doctrine and scripture. The moment that we as a species banish it from our moral philosophy, our lives will be incomparably improved.

I see the word cult and you lost me. You know what cults are? Cluts are based on people, they associate with each other and shut off everyone else, they are unified under one real leadership, they don't let people leave, they blackmail people, they controll every aspact of the members lives.

You're talking about an international, leaderless, personal, dissolved, open religion. In fact there are thousands of types. A cult has one leader, and no single person is a leader of all Christendom. (That's a good thing, by the way.) While a few of those types do fit the description, most of them don't.

Cults and religions are different. Too many people think they are the same.

Technically speaking this is not true of all Christians, as at least the Catholic Church has a very clear "leader" (the pope). From what I can tell Orthoxox churches also habe relatively clear leaders.

Really that only applies to protestantism.

[RINO Tom]

The same as my opinion of all cults: An abusive indoctrination system that has wasted innumerable human lives with its insular delusions and anti-individualism. There were thousands of obscure desert cults in the ancient world, and the fact that this one happened to survive is the only reason why today we treat it any differently from Zeus or the moon goddess Nanna. It is a self-sustaining brainwashing organization that survives by emotionally abusing young people, making them feel as though they only have value as part of a greater community, and transforming them into unthinking, unquestioning followers of doctrine and scripture. The moment that we as a species banish it from our moral philosophy, our lives will be incomparably improved.

I see the word cult and you lost me. You know what cults are? Cluts are based on people, they associate with each other and shut off everyone else, they are unified under one real leadership, they don't let people leave, they blackmail people, they controll every aspact of the members lives.

You're talking about an international, leaderless, personal, dissolved, open religion. In fact there are thousands of types. A cult has one leader, and no single person is a leader of all Christendom. (That's a good thing, by the way.) While a few of those types do fit the description, most of them don't.

Cults and religions are different. Too many people think they are the same.

Technically speaking this is not true of all Christians, as at least the Catholic Church has a very clear "leader" (the pope). From what I can tell Orthoxox churches also habe relatively clear leaders.

Really that only applies to protestantism.

Well, it's understandable for you to both look at that differently ... a majority of Christians in your country are Catholics, and a majority in our country are Protestants.

[DC Al Fine]

The same as my opinion of all cults: An abusive indoctrination system that has wasted innumerable human lives with its insular delusions and anti-individualism. There were thousands of obscure desert cults in the ancient world, and the fact that this one happened to survive is the only reason why today we treat it any differently from Zeus or the moon goddess Nanna. It is a self-sustaining brainwashing organization that survives by emotionally abusing young people, making them feel as though they only have value as part of a greater community, and transforming them into unthinking, unquestioning followers of doctrine and scripture. The moment that we as a species banish it from our moral philosophy, our lives will be incomparably improved.

I see the word cult and you lost me. You know what cults are? Cluts are based on people, they associate with each other and shut off everyone else, they are unified under one real leadership, they don't let people leave, they blackmail people, they controll every aspact of the members lives.

You're talking about an international, leaderless, personal, dissolved, open religion. In fact there are thousands of types. A cult has one leader, and no single person is a leader of all Christendom. (That's a good thing, by the way.) While a few of those types do fit the description, most of them don't.

Cults and religions are different. Too many people think they are the same.

Technically speaking this is not true of all Christians, as at least the Catholic Church has a very clear "leader" (the pope). From what I can tell Orthoxox churches also habe relatively clear leaders.

Really that only applies to protestantism.

Well, it's understandable for you to both look at that differently ... a majority of Christians in your country are Catholics, and a majority in our country are Protestants.

Getting back to Dule's original argument. He's playing fast and loose with his definitions here. It doesn't really matter whether there's one guy at the top or not. Lumping Christianity into the pejorative "cult" and all that implies, or the Pope with David Koresh is ridiculous to say the least. There are all kinds of meaningful differences.

One may as well call Dule a communist because they both reject the divine right of kings.

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

The whole premise of Christian thought is that Judgement day was going to arrive, since 1800, the Pope have been promising that, but it hasnt come. That's why most people are starting to believe in reincarnation than Judgement Day,  because that hope if Jesus returning is still a prophecy

[afleitch]

In all seriousness, Christianity as a system has willfully and with intent suppressed and invalidated (even eradicated) LGBT persons throughout it's history. And I know you're all going to roll your eyes at that and think 'oh there he goes again' and might even be offended because you personally don't hold to that belief but it's still an important point. So it starts at a deficit for me personally.

[Statilius the Epicurean]

Yeah, Christianity is mostly ok except for its completely f---ed up attitude towards sex IMO. Oh that and the exclusivism and aggressive missionary attitude towards other beliefs.

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

Christianity is man made, it's up to you to manifest the power of GOD, as the Universe to eradicate the negative causes and put in place positive causes; consequently, as the afterlife, is enlightenment, nirvana, or Heaven,  you try to achieve. Or as Buddhists put it, come back, as a rich reincarnated individual.

[brucejoel99]

I'm Jewish, so Christianity almost seems like cultural appropriation to me: this thoroughly Hellenic religion claiming the Jewish scriptures as its own in order to provide itself with a sense of history & legitimacy. Yeah, sure, Christianity may have started with a man who was executed for claiming to be the Jewish messiah, but it went off the rails very quickly after that. Thanks to Paul, the self-proclaimed Apostle who never met Jesus, we've ended up with this bizarre amalgamation of Hellenic mystery cults, Greek philosophies like Neoplatonism, & Paul's personal theology which were loosely grafted unto the Jewish scriptures & the life of a failed messianic candidate.

[Statilius the Epicurean]

I'm Jewish, so Christianity almost seems like cultural appropriation to me: this thoroughly Hellenic religion claiming the Jewish scriptures as its own in order to provide itself with a sense of history & legitimacy. Yeah, sure, Christianity may have started with a man who was executed for claiming to be the Jewish messiah, but it went off the rails very quickly after that. Thanks to Paul, the self-proclaimed Apostle who never met Jesus, we've ended up with this bizarre amalgamation of Hellenic mystery cults, Greek philosophies like Neoplatonism, & Paul's personal theology which were loosely grafted unto the Jewish scriptures & the life of a failed messianic candidate.

Not that I disagree so much, but it should be kept in mind that Second Temple Judaism was very diverse culturally and theologically, and that most Jews of the period were influenced by Hellenistic thought (e.g. Philo, Josephus...). Paul certainly thought of himself as a devout Jew whose mission in converting the Gentiles was to reconcile them to Israel and thereby redeem his people in light of an impending apocalypse.  The real split came a generation or two later.

[All Along The Watchtower]

Depends on what you mean by the term.

[The Arizonan]

Yeah, Christianity is mostly ok except for its completely f---ed up attitude towards sex IMO. Oh that and the exclusivism and aggressive missionary attitude towards other beliefs.

I know. Plus, it even says that masturbation is a sin even if you don’t waste sperm.

[Tartarus Sauce]

Mostly negative from a broader evaluation of its theology and history. I find its core principle absurdly convoluted, its moral prescriptions perverse, and its ontology abusively manipulative. As is the staple of the Abrahamic traditions, its outlook on other beliefs sets is chauvinistic and intolerant. Its internal logic is simultaneously rigid, yet also fragile, generally aided by hefty indoctrination as the glue that binds when faced by rational interrogation. Many of the distinctive values that modern Westerners hold most dearly aren't really based in traditional Christian thought, but rather by a philosophical set of ideas that explicitly broke away from the norms within Christiandom for over a thousand years.

Many of its practitioners are fine, though.

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

Televangelists have taken over, like Joel Osteen, so the reliance on organized religion is less degree. As I stated before, during Winter season, and during bad weather, people stay home. But, in baseball season, people go back to Church to socialize

[John Dule]

Getting back to Dule's original argument. He's playing fast and loose with his definitions here. It doesn't really matter whether there's one guy at the top or not. Lumping Christianity into the pejorative "cult" and all that implies, or the Pope with David Koresh is ridiculous to say the least. There are all kinds of meaningful differences.

One may as well call Dule a communist because they both reject the divine right of kings.

Except the definition of "cult" does not demand that the group is led by one charismatic figure. You're equating a "cult" with a "cult of personality," which is a distinct subgroup of cults. Regardless though, all of this is moot because early Christianity (the apostles and other followers) absolutely fits the definition of a cult of personality-- a relatively small group of worshipers, one charismatic leader, religious veneration of that figure, and ostracization by the rest of society due to their different customs and beliefs. A religion is a larger form of a cult, and the only reason we accept Christianity as anything different is because we've become accustomed to its wacko practices.

Whether or not you want to see this a pejorative is not my concern. But all religions were cults at one point, and the only thing differentiating the two is how deep they've sunk their claws into society.