Tennessee Valley Authority Privatization Act

[Filuwaúrdjan]

This is increasingly looking like a vauge declaration of some sort...

[minionofmidas]

This has been set upon in a totally wrong order.

This is the order in which things like this should be done:
Step one - Find out what the operation is worth.
Step two - Find out whether there's anybody who wants to have it all, and actually can shoulder it too.
Okay, I can do that for you. No, in all likelihood not, unless maybe if they have to pay 1% or less of what it's worth.
Step three - find other ways to raise money with it. (This has already been largely done by you in discussion here.) Like, selling shares for part of it, or some corrupt lend-lease deal whereby you sell it, lease it back, and keep managing it.
Step four - calculate how much you get from that in the short run and how much someone else is getting in the long run.
Step five - understand you're utterly screwing yourself and your country over.
Step six - (this and only this is where it gets difficult) think about whether reducing the budget deficit, and more to the point the amount of interest out of tax dollars that you'll be paying to banks less, is worth it.

Goes for all privatization issues really, in my experience.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Y'know I hadn't thought of the crooked lend-lease deal option...

[minionofmidas]

Y'know I hadn't thought of the crooked lend-lease deal option...

A sure money loser in the long run...

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Y'know I hadn't thought of the crooked lend-lease deal option...

A sure money loser in the long run...

True actually. It's one of the scams you play if you know your party hasn't got more than a term or so left that it can win...

[minionofmidas]

Y'know I hadn't thought of the crooked lend-lease deal option...

A sure money loser in the long run...

True actually. It's one of the scams you play if you know your party hasn't got more than a term or so left that it can win...

Or your finances are really desperate.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Y'know I hadn't thought of the crooked lend-lease deal option...

A sure money loser in the long run...

True actually. It's one of the scams you play if you know your party hasn't got more than a term or so left that it can win...

Or your finances are really desperate.

You just repeated what I said

[Ebowed]

Tennessee Valley Authority Privatization Act

1. The Tennessee Valley Authority shall be sold to private persons or corporations.
2. The Secretary of the Treasury is hereby authorized to make necessary rules and regulations relating to the process of privatization.
3. The privatization of the Tennessee Valley Authority shall be completed before the year 2007.
4. The government of Atlasia shall look for a proper buyer to sell the TVA to.

The bill currently stands as above; does anyone wish to suggest or propose any amendments?

[Jake]

I have one:

5. The Senate shall review all offers for purchase and must pass legislation authorizing the sale before the sale is finalized.

[MasterJedi]

I'll support Jake's amendment and I also have another change (which I should have seen when I first wrote it). The part in bold is the change that's been added.


4. The government of Atlasia shall look for a proper buyer or buyers to sell the TVA to.

[Colin]

I agree with several others when I say that I believe an IPO of the TVA may be an option that we could look at. The problem is whether the TVA actually produces a profit or if it is currently operating on a loss. Taking the TVA public may bring more of the financial burden upon shareholders and not the federal government as well as slowly privatize this government entity.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Some questions that need answering (and if they aren't answered in a satisfactory I will try to get the bill tabled. Sure it won't succeed. Not the point)...

Oh and I'd like a Senator to give the answers. No one else. And please do not give meaningless ideological cliches for answers

1. What is the current value of the TVA? An estimate will do.
2. Do you know how the current financing of the TVA works?
3. How do electricity prices in the area compare to other areas?
4. Are you aware of anyone (individual, corporation, whatever) who would be interested in buying the TVA for what it is worth, and who would actually be able to run it on a sound financial footing?
5. What would the longterm effects of privatizing the TVA be on (for example) consumers, public safety, the environment and so on?
6. How much money do you think that this will save us, and on what basis do you make that claim?

Thank you.

[12th Doctor]

Personally... and I know you are all going to love this suggestion... I would seel the whole thing to Halliburton.  They are pretty much the only company in the world that can shoulder the costs for this thing, and know how to opperate it.

[Jake]

[loaded questions]

This article, ignore the position of it, answers a few questions. Namely, its worth and cost to the government.

For the others, 4 is almost impossible to know, unless some corporation has made overtures about it in the past (doubtful), 5 is also difficult to ascertain, primarily because we don't yet know who could buy it, and 6 is also difficult to know, primarily because we don't yet have an offer for it.

I hardly care for your crap either way Al. You're against privitizing government (mis)run corporations. We understand that and frankly, your tone in this "debate" (something which hasn't happened in the Senate since October) is a little high and mighty. Though in the spirit of questioning, here are some of my own.

1. Do you know how much the TVA costs the government to run each year? An estimate will do fine.

2. Do you know how much a similar private energy corporation costs to run each year? Maybe using costs per unit serviced.

3. Can you estimate the costs of the TVA to us if it remains unprivatized into the future? Maybe a 10 year estimate?

If one of these dams breaks, and 50,000 people are dead, and Chattanooga is under 20 ft of water, I don't think too man people are going to care about who gets to sue whom.

That's hardly a valid point, as there are many privately run dams in the US. The fact that one of them could break is hardly a reason to take them under state control.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

[loaded questions]

They are not loaded questions. They are questions that you should know if you intend to privatize the TVA.

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The article mentions neither the worth of the TVA nor how much it costs the government.

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Uh huh...

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Uh huh...

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Right.

So... you don't know who would be willing to buy the TVA, you don't know what the various longterm (and pretty damn important to residents of the Tennessee Valley) costs or benefits of this would be... and you don't even know how much money this would raise.

Right?

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You know you're supposed to be civil in Senate debates

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Hmm? I've seen no evidence that, by the standards of energy companies, that the TVA is misrun.
And the fact that I am generally opposed to privatisation is completely irrelevent to my argument.

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No, not really. I've just been doing my job. Scrutiny a bad thing now?

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Since 1959 the TVA has been self-financing.

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No, because no such corporation exists.

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See my answer to question 1.

[CheeseWhiz]

Oh and I'd like a Senator to give the answers. No one else.

Why?  I think the GM would be more qualified to answer a lot of those questions, especially 4 and 5.  Or are you just trying to prove we don't know what we're talking about?  Seriously, I'm asking.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

I think the GM would be more qualified to answer a lot of those questions, especially 4 and 5.

Ah yes... but he has enough on his plate right now. Besides this is the sort of thing that the Senate *should* really be able to do on it's own; we've all got a bit lazy of late...

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Not as such; more like trying to find out if you [as a collective whole] know what you're talking about on this.

[Emsworth]

4. Are you aware of anyone (individual, corporation, whatever) who would be interested in buying the TVA for what it is worth, and who would actually be able to run it on a sound financial footing?

Why does it have to be a single person or corporation? The privatization of the TVA could be like the initial public offering of any company: shares would be put up for sale to the general public.

[MasterJedi]

No debate on these either, I hereby open up the vote on these amendments. Please vote Aye, Nay or Abstain.

4. The government of Atlasia shall look for a proper buyer or buyers to sell the TVA to.

5. The Senate shall review all offers for purchase and must pass legislation authorizing the sale before the sale is finalized.

[MasterJedi]

Aye on both.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Abstain on both

[Gabu]

Aye on both, I guess.

[Bono]

Abstain on both

^^^^

I'm already going to vote nay on this, so why bother.

[Colin]

Abstain on both

They are quite broad. I may try working up an amendment offering up 51% of the TVA to an IPO.

[The Dowager Mod]

Nay on both