Liberal or Democratic?

[True Democrat]

This stuff about Pennsylvania is getting annoying.  Let me sum up every thread about Pennsylvania since the last election:

SE trending Dem, SW trending Rep, Santorum is probably going to lose, the end

[12th Doctor]

Pennsylvania - Democratic (if it weren't for ancestral Dems in the west this state would be more Republican than Ohio)

From what I'm hearing, we're holding our own out west.  Granted, I think Fayette, Greene, and Beaver will eventually drop, but will be made up for by Chester and Monroe in the east.

You guys are losing support in almost every county in the West, including Alleghany

Trend:


Not so buddy!  Take a look east.  Your gains out there are futile and the Trends are based on the national level.  We would not be "more Republican than Ohio".

I already explained that map, but I guess I'm just gonna have to break it down:

Erie County:  Gannon University, Penn State Behrend, Mercyhurst College, Edinboro University

Crawford County:  Allegheny College

Indiana County:  IUP

Clarion County:  University of Clarion

Allegheny County:  DUP, Pitt, Carlo College, Carnegie-Mellon

Butler County:  Slippery Rock

Centre County:  Penn State University

As for all the small counties, Bush probably just maxed out his support there.  The only county I can't explain in this way in Elk County.

No offense, but you seem to fabricate excuses as to why Pennsylvania is trending GOP.  Compared to the national average, we actually trended Dem albeit very slighly.  You also keep harping on this "New Deal Die-off" in western PA, but now your excuse is college kids.  I'm just pointing out the inconsistencies in your arguments.

There is no inconsistancy...

The counties that trended Democrat did so, in my opinion, only because of the College Democrats of PA fielded a mass effort to reregister out of state kids, who weren't from swing states, as Pennsylvania voters.  If you will notice, almost every county that trended Dem in the west contains a major college, or university, and those that don't, for the most part, trended Republican.  As for the small counties, they acctually swung Republican, but didn't beat the trend, because Bush has probably maxed out his support there.  The only exception is Elk County, which I can't really explain and Clearfield, which is trending Dem because people who own Section - 8 Houseing are moving in minorities from the city, because they get more money that way and, they are more willing to move there, because of the state prison that just opened up there.  And these people are the worst kind, believe me.

Anyway, my point is that the trends towards the Dems, in the counties where this happened are generally so small, that the college students could easily account for this.  If that is the case, then they can't beat out the prevailing trend forever.

[12th Doctor]

This stuff about Pennsylvania is getting annoying.  Let me sum up every thread about Pennsylvania since the last election:

SE trending Dem, SW trending Rep, Santorum is probably going to lose, the end

Shut up.  You are probably really from New Jersey.

[Alcon]

This stuff about Pennsylvania is getting annoying.  Let me sum up every thread about Pennsylvania since the last election:

SE trending Dem, SW trending Rep, Santorum is probably going to lose, the end

Shut up.  You are probably really from New Jersey.

Let's not be vulgar here.

[12th Doctor]

This stuff about Pennsylvania is getting annoying.  Let me sum up every thread about Pennsylvania since the last election:

SE trending Dem, SW trending Rep, Santorum is probably going to lose, the end

Shut up.  You are probably really from New Jersey.

Let's not be vulgar here.

LOL... okay... saying the someone is from New Jersey is steping over the line, I will admit.

[bullmoose88]

This stuff about Pennsylvania is getting annoying.  Let me sum up every thread about Pennsylvania since the last election:

SE trending Dem, SW trending Rep, Santorum is probably going to lose, the end

Shut up.  You are probably really from New Jersey.

Let's not be vulgar here.

LOL... okay... saying the someone is from New Jersey is steping over the line, I will admit.

Yeah man...its not like you have to live near that godawful state.

[TeePee4Prez]

This stuff about Pennsylvania is getting annoying.  Let me sum up every thread about Pennsylvania since the last election:

SE trending Dem, SW trending Rep, Santorum is probably going to lose, the end

Shut up.  You are probably really from New Jersey.

Let's not be vulgar here.

LOL... okay... saying the someone is from New Jersey is steping over the line, I will admit.

Yeah man...its not like you have to live near that godawful state.

Overall, I'll take New Jersey over most parts of PA.

[12th Doctor]

This stuff about Pennsylvania is getting annoying.  Let me sum up every thread about Pennsylvania since the last election:

SE trending Dem, SW trending Rep, Santorum is probably going to lose, the end

Shut up.  You are probably really from New Jersey.

Let's not be vulgar here.

LOL... okay... saying the someone is from New Jersey is steping over the line, I will admit.

Yeah man...its not like you have to live near that godawful state.

Overall, I'll take New Jersey over most parts of PA.

Over all, I would take West Virginia over Philadelphia.

[Dr. Cynic]

It seems to me that Western PA is decidedly Democratic. In Pittsburgh, Erie, and Philadelphia in the east, it is more than a 3-1 Democratic advantage. However, in the center of the state Repubs have us soundly beaten.

[TeePee4Prez]

This stuff about Pennsylvania is getting annoying.  Let me sum up every thread about Pennsylvania since the last election:

SE trending Dem, SW trending Rep, Santorum is probably going to lose, the end

Shut up.  You are probably really from New Jersey.

Let's not be vulgar here.

LOL... okay... saying the someone is from New Jersey is steping over the line, I will admit.

Yeah man...its not like you have to live near that godawful state.

Overall, I'll take New Jersey over most parts of PA.

Over all, I would take West Virginia over Philadelphia.

That's sad.

[12th Doctor]

It seems to me that Western PA is decidedly Democratic. In Pittsburgh, Erie, and Philadelphia in the east, it is more than a 3-1 Democratic advantage. However, in the center of the state Repubs have us soundly beaten.

Huh?  Bush got 42% in Allegheny County and 46% in Erie County.  That, by far, the best a Republcan has done here since Reagan won with 43% and 51%, respectively, while winning the rest of the country with 59%.

[nlm]

It seems to me that Western PA is decidedly Democratic. In Pittsburgh, Erie, and Philadelphia in the east, it is more than a 3-1 Democratic advantage. However, in the center of the state Repubs have us soundly beaten.

Huh?  Bush got 42% in Allegheny County and 46% in Erie County.  That, by far, the best a Republcan has done here since Reagan won with 43% and 51%, respectively, while winning the rest of the country with 59%.

So Super - when are the Pittsburgh Republicans (what few there are) going to finally rise up and merge the city with Allegheny County? I lived there a while back and remember talk of that among the local GOP, it always seemed like a good idea to me given how screwed up the city was fiscally. I hear it's even worse these days.

[12th Doctor]

It seems to me that Western PA is decidedly Democratic. In Pittsburgh, Erie, and Philadelphia in the east, it is more than a 3-1 Democratic advantage. However, in the center of the state Repubs have us soundly beaten.

Huh?  Bush got 42% in Allegheny County and 46% in Erie County.  That, by far, the best a Republcan has done here since Reagan won with 43% and 51%, respectively, while winning the rest of the country with 59%.

So Super - when are the Pittsburgh Republicans (what few there are) going to finally rise up and merge the city with Allegheny County? I lived there a while back and remember talk of that among the local GOP, it always seemed like a good idea to me given how screwed up the city was fiscally. I hear it's even worse these days.

It's pretty simple, really, most people in the county don't want to merge with the city, and there are more people int he county.

[jokerman]

Maine-Liberal
Vermont-Liberal
Connecticut-Liberal
Rhode Island-Democrat
Massachusets-Pretty balanced
New York-Democrat
New Jersey-Liberal
Pennsylvania-Democrat
Washington D.C.-Democrat
Maryland-Balanced
Delaware-Balanced
Michigan-Democrat
Minnesota-Democrat
Wisconsin-Democrat (Altough the CW is liberal, people seem to forget the strong coalition of loyal democratic miners, farmers, and factory workers)
Illinois-Democrat
California-Liberal
Oregon-Liberal
Washington-Liberal
Hawaii-Liberal

[Alcon]

New York-Democrat

Really?

[jokerman]

New York-Democrat

Really?

Honestly, I may be wrong.  But it voted Democrat even before it was a liberal party by any means, so I always assumed it had strong democratic loyalties.

[Gustaf]

Considering that NY has elected Republicans for Mayor and Governor, I'd say it's more liberal than Democratic.

[minionofmidas]

Considering that NY has elected Republicans for Mayor and Governor, I'd say it's more liberal than Democratic.

NYC has voted for exactly three Republican Presidents in its history. In federal politics, it sure is even more Democratic than it is liberal. City politics are a totally different bag of beans though, for related reasons actually ...cough...race...cough...

[Gustaf]

I stand by my opinion that if an area can't even field a Democratic candidate (Wasn't Bloomberg more or less unopposed?) it's not all that Democratic.

[nclib]

Wisconsin-Democrat (Altough the CW is liberal, people seem to forget the strong coalition of loyal democratic miners, farmers, and factory workers)

What is the CW?

[Frodo]

Wisconsin-Democrat (Altough the CW is liberal, people seem to forget the strong coalition of loyal democratic miners, farmers, and factory workers)

What is the CW?

Conventional Wisdom. 

[jokerman]

Bloomberg didn't run unopposed.  It was a landslide, yes (most of that comming from the fact that he's a billionaire), but the Democrats did have a candidate.

[Gustaf]

Bloomberg didn't run unopposed.  It was a landslide, yes (most of that comming from the fact that he's a billionaire), but the Democrats did have a candidate.

Was it a real candidate or was it like we could have said "Bush wasn't unopposed, the Democrats ran Kucinich?

A definition I've seen once is that if the loser gets less than 40% of the vote he's viewed as "token opposition". That might be a bit high, but if you get less than a third of the vote I don't thikn that's a serious candidacy.

[minionofmidas]

Ferrer got round a little under 40% of the vote IIRC. He actually carried the Bronx.

[ag]

Was it a real candidate or was it like we could have said "Bush wasn't unopposed, the Democrats ran Kucinich?

Ferrer, of course, is not Kucinich. Under normal circumstances he could be a plausible candidate, though exciting he is not either.  But long before the election - in fact, before he won the nomination - the election was indeed effectively conceded by the Dems. The problems is, that most Dems have nothing against Bloomberg - ideologically and culturally he is one of them, anyway. So, even though the party went through the motions, a lot of its activists/donors actually supported Bloomberg. Even those Dems that, due to their position in the party, had to publicly support Ferrer or even campaign for him (e.g., the Clintons), tried to do this as unconspicuously as possible - they really, honestly, truly actually prefered Bloomberg.

The Dem problem there is that to win the Dem nomination one has to "rise through the ranks" and "pay the dues", and the result is, usually, boring. The Rep nomination, in contrast, is almost there for taking by an ambitious outsider (since its value for a boring insider is exactly zero - he'd never win), and the result is frequently interesting. Thus, the Dem advantage is sometimes counterbalanced by the quality of Rep candidates. This works only for the mayoral election, of course - not a single extra Republican council member was elected, despite the mayoral landslide; no coattails watsoever.