No Child Left Behind Act

[A18]

This and that Medicare bill are easily the worst two accomplishments of Bush's presidency.

[MODU]

Anything that makes an real attempt at improving our education standards, I support.  NCLB falls in that category, though it's not perfect.

[Virginian87]

This and that Medicare bill are easily the worst two accomplishments of Bush's presidency.

Indeed.  This bill has been grossly underfunded, and it is far from showing any promise yet.  Forcing teachers to teach to a statewide test and adhere to statewide educational standards cannot be done if some school districts are considerably more affluent than others.

[Emsworth]

This bill destroys the independence of the states in the field of education. It is, as A18 suggests, one of the worst bills passed under President Bush's watch.

[Virginian87]

This bill destroys the independence of the states in the field of education.

This is another excellent point that I meant to point out.  So much for the party that promotes limited national government.

[MODU]

This bill destroys the independence of the states in the field of education.

*dies laughin* 

[A18]

Emsworth is correct.

[MODU]

Emsworth is correct.

Sorry, but setting a national level of educational performance in no way "destorys the independence" of individual states . . . unless of course you want more generation of kids who underachieve on the international level.  And if that's the case, then the kids won't learn nearly enough about the Constitution as they should.  But if you're happy with that, by all means, disagree with any attempt by the nation to improve itself.

[Emsworth]

This bill destroys the independence of the states in the field of education.

*dies laughin* 

Under this law, states do not have the freedom to select teachers; instead, they must adhere to federal guidelines. States do not have the freedom to provide or not provide standardized testing; instead, they must adhere to federal guidelines. States do not have the freedom to devise teaching strategies as they see fit; instead, they must adhere to federal guidelines.

If this is not the destruction of the independence of the states in the field of education, then what is?

[MODU]

This bill destroys the independence of the states in the field of education.

*dies laughin* 

Under this law, states do not have the freedom to select teachers; instead, they must adhere to federal guidelines. States do not have the freedom to provide or not provide standardized testing; instead, they must adhere to federal guidelines. States do not have the freedom to devise teaching strategies as they see fit; instead, they must adhere to federal guidelines.

If this is not the destruction of the independence of the states in the field of education, then what is?

Hahahah . . . ok son, if placing guidelines as to what qualifications our nations teachers should have, what reading/comprehension levels our students should have, etc destorys state "independence," then by all means, destroy it.  However, national guidelines do no such thing, since states have the freedom to exceed those guidelines as much as they want.  That, my friend, is independence.  What you are promoting is allowing state self-defeatism and promotion of student underachievement.

[A18]

Hahahah . . . ok son, if placing guidelines as to what qualifications our nations teachers should have, what reading/comprehension levels our students should have, etc destorys state "independence," then by all means, destroy it.  However, national guidelines do no such thing, since states have the freedom to exceed those guidelines as much as they want.  That, my friend, is independence.  What you are promoting is allowing state self-defeatism and promotion of student underachievement.

Legislating minimal federal standards that the states must follow diminishes their independence. Unless, of course, you have a new meaning of the word 'independence' you'd like to share with us.

[Emsworth]

Hahahah . . . ok son, if placing guidelines as to what qualifications our nations teachers should have, what reading/comprehension levels our students should have, etc destorys state "independence," then by all means, destroy it.  However, national guidelines do no such thing, since states have the freedom to exceed those guidelines as much as they want.  That, my friend, is independence.  What you are promoting is allowing state self-defeatism and promotion of student underachievement.

You seem to portray the federal government as a national nanny -- benign, compassionate, and wise -- keeping the naughty states in check. The federal government is not, however, all-knowing and all-benevolent. It has achieved very little, often intruding into the states' affairs, making things worse rather than better.

[ATFFL]

States do not have to follow these standards.  They can choose to not folow them and not receive NCLB money. 

[Emsworth]

States do not have to follow these standards.  They can choose to not folow them and not receive NCLB money. 

The states have become utterly dependent on federal money. These guidelines are, therefore, practically coercive.

[MODU]

Hahahah . . . ok son, if placing guidelines as to what qualifications our nations teachers should have, what reading/comprehension levels our students should have, etc destorys state "independence," then by all means, destroy it.  However, national guidelines do no such thing, since states have the freedom to exceed those guidelines as much as they want.  That, my friend, is independence.  What you are promoting is allowing state self-defeatism and promotion of student underachievement.

Legislating minimal federal standards that the states must follow diminishes their independence. Unless, of course, you have a new meaning of the word 'independence' you'd like to share with us.

Hey, we're making headway.  Thank you for pointing out that guidelines do not destroy anything.  We'll soon get you to recognize that the nation is allowed to set guidelines, and it is the freedom (independence if you care to use the term) of the member-states to underachieve/meet/exceed these guidelines.  Membership has its privileges . . . and responsibilities.

[dazzleman]

States do not have to follow these standards.  They can choose to not folow them and not receive NCLB money. 

Exactly.  Liberals oppose NCLB because they want the money without the standards, as they would have gotten from the Democrats.

Some conservatives oppose it for more honorable reasons.

I am ambivalent about the law, but the fact that liberals don't like it, and that union-oriented time server teachers don't like it, leads me to think it could be a good thing.  We do have to pull our educational standards up as much as we can in order to compete and maintain and increase our affluence.

[A18]

Hey, we're making headway.  Thank you for pointing out that guidelines do not destroy anything.

If the government requires you to pray three times a day, that destroys your religious independence. Doesn't matter if you can pray four times a day.

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Not under the actual Constitution, which you've already admitted. You simply want to ignore it.

[GOP = Terrorists]

No Child Left Behind is an orwellian name for a system intentionally designed to fail.  Any system that expects to hold a 70 IQ child to the same standard as a 140 IQ child is worthless.

Connecticut has the best public education system in the country and our Republican Gov and Democratic AG have both strongly sided against NCLB.  It is total crap in practice.

[A18]

States do not have to follow these standards.  They can choose to not folow them and not receive NCLB money. 

Exactly.

It is unconstitutional coercion, used to invade the reserved powers of the states.

[Jake]

Anyone who does needs a quick trip to the gas chambers.

[GOP = Terrorists]

but the fact that liberals don't like it

Do you honestly believe that is a reason to have an opinion one way or the other?  Partisan much?

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Yeah all them horrible evil teachers... Please keep advocating that position.

[dazzleman]

but the fact that liberals don't like it

Do you honestly believe that is a reason to have an opinion one way or the other?  Partisan much?

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Yeah all them horrible evil teachers... Please keep advocating that position.

Notice I said 'union-oriented time server teachers' rather than 'teachers.'  I really should have just said the teacher's union.  I didn't mean to attack all teachers.  I'm sorry it was taken that way by you.

[ATFFL]

States do not have to follow these standards.  They can choose to not folow them and not receive NCLB money. 

The states have become utterly dependent on federal money. These guidelines are, therefore, practically coercive.

Then why do they have a history of leaving federal funds unspent?

Do you know how little the federal government funds education?  They are competing with "other" for third place in providing the most funds.  State and local sources of funds are infront of them.

[Virginian87]

Wow.  Are there any Republicans who actually supported this?  Getting a mostly negative reaction here.  Check this out.

Anyone who does needs a quick trip to the gas chambers.

[dazzleman]

I think education should be funded primarily with state and local money.