MA-SEN Megathread: Senator Markey wins

[Sir Mohamed]

Kennedy is wasting tons of money that could be used against Mr. Trump and his enablers instead. And I still haven't figured out why he wants Markey to go other than for self-promotion. MA has 2 senators unlikely to stay in for many more decades and he has the time to wait a few more years or run 4 gov once Charlie Baker decides to retire.

No that's literally it. No ideological differences, no demographic differences, no tactical differences. Literally pure ego and it's a drain on resources and a waste of Markey's time. I really hope JKIII loses so he can get out of politics

This is such BS. This race is not taking any resources away from the fight against Trumpism. ZERO. It’s a Safe Dem seat in a Safe Dem state in a region where virtually all races are Safe or at worst Likely Dem.

In recent years you’ve had many Dems who have been in Washington for years being primaried by much younger candidates who have been reasonably in lock step with them on policy issues (Yes slightly more left). The challengers in those races have proclaimed “We need younger people to represent us, we need a new generation”.

AOC, Bowman and Pressley to name a few. But for some reason when Joe Kennedy primaries someone his point about a new generation stepping up is discredited because he comes from a family with many relatively who have sacrafised so much for this country.

With that being said, those thinking JK will win this race don’t know what they’re talking about & are being overly simplistic. Unfortunately the Bernie Bro Pitch Fork brigade has been effective in bruising the image of a young man who would be PHENOMENAL in the Senate. Sadly my state isn’t what it used to be in this regard

The money Kennedy is raising and spending could be turned over the DNC instead. Yes, the seat is safe. And this is why I fail to see for what reasons tons of cash should be poured into said race. It would be understandable if Markey was a Joe Manchin-style Dem in MA, if he was extreme left or had ethical issues, but as pointed out neither of these the case. Kennedy is running for self-promotion and an assumption of being "entitled" only. This is why I hope he'll lose.

[Zaybay]

Kennedy is wasting tons of money that could be used against Mr. Trump and his enablers instead. And I still haven't figured out why he wants Markey to go other than for self-promotion. MA has 2 senators unlikely to stay in for many more decades and he has the time to wait a few more years or run 4 gov once Charlie Baker decides to retire.

No that's literally it. No ideological differences, no demographic differences, no tactical differences. Literally pure ego and it's a drain on resources and a waste of Markey's time. I really hope JKIII loses so he can get out of politics

This is such BS. This race is not taking any resources away from the fight against Trumpism. ZERO. It’s a Safe Dem seat in a Safe Dem state in a region where virtually all races are Safe or at worst Likely Dem.

In recent years you’ve had many Dems who have been in Washington for years being primaried by much younger candidates who have been reasonably in lock step with them on policy issues (Yes slightly more left). The challengers in those races have proclaimed “We need younger people to represent us, we need a new generation”.

AOC, Bowman and Pressley to name a few. But for some reason when Joe Kennedy primaries someone his point about a new generation stepping up is discredited because he comes from a family with many relatively who have sacrafised so much for this country.

With that being said, those thinking JK will win this race don’t know what they’re talking about & are being overly simplistic. Unfortunately the Bernie Bro Pitch Fork brigade has been effective in bruising the image of a young man who would be PHENOMENAL in the Senate. Sadly my state isn’t what it used to be in this regard

Ah yes, I remember when notable progressive firebrand and democratic socialist Crowley got primaried out by AOC. Good times.

You're fundamentally misunderstanding the successful primaries that have occurred so far. Neither AOC, Bowman, nor Pressley won by saying "new blood", they all had very good pitches to the changing demographics in their seat.

- AOC was a Hispanic running in a seat that had become plurality/majority Hispanic. She also stood as a contrast to the moderate Crowley, and was able to use Crowley's lack of attention to the seat to argue that he was out of touch.
- Bowman appealed to the African Americans in the seat, who were a plurality, through the recent events that came from George Floyd's murder. He also was able to use the fact that Engel stepped in a ton of s*** to argue that Engel was out of touch with his seat.
- Pressley's primary was the most racially based of the successful primaries.She argued that a majority-minority seat needed a minority to represent it. She also argued that Capuano had grown out of touch with his seat, especially with his connections to police unions.

None of the three have used "we need new blood" as their main sales pitch for their primary. Kennedy is because there fundamentally is very little else to run on. The two are ideologically similar, hell, he may be the more moderate of the two. They're both white and its Massachusetts. The only issue Kennedy can run on is the fact that Markey is old and he is young.

Any primary candidate just arguing for new blood would be blown out of the water, but Kennedy appears to be a special case for reasons that are not very appealing outside the state. It makes him look entitled. He has no real appeal to voters except the fact that his family are famed in politics. Nobody likes the guy who gets the job based on family connections.

[KaiserDave]

Kennedy is wasting tons of money that could be used against Mr. Trump and his enablers instead. And I still haven't figured out why he wants Markey to go other than for self-promotion. MA has 2 senators unlikely to stay in for many more decades and he has the time to wait a few more years or run 4 gov once Charlie Baker decides to retire.

No that's literally it. No ideological differences, no demographic differences, no tactical differences. Literally pure ego and it's a drain on resources and a waste of Markey's time. I really hope JKIII loses so he can get out of politics

This is such BS. This race is not taking any resources away from the fight against Trumpism. ZERO. It’s a Safe Dem seat in a Safe Dem state in a region where virtually all races are Safe or at worst Likely Dem.

In recent years you’ve had many Dems who have been in Washington for years being primaried by much younger candidates who have been reasonably in lock step with them on policy issues (Yes slightly more left). The challengers in those races have proclaimed “We need younger people to represent us, we need a new generation”.

AOC, Bowman and Pressley to name a few. But for some reason when Joe Kennedy primaries someone his point about a new generation stepping up is discredited because he comes from a family with many relatively who have sacrafised so much for this country.

With that being said, those thinking JK will win this race don’t know what they’re talking about & are being overly simplistic. Unfortunately the Bernie Bro Pitch Fork brigade has been effective in bruising the image of a young man who would be PHENOMENAL in the Senate. Sadly my state isn’t what it used to be in this regard

I don't care.


Please make a case for why Kennedy is superior on policy and record, not on "new blood" and not on his last name.

[RogueBeaver]

David Bernstein: both campaigns largely agree that the outcome depends on turnout and mixture of high vs low propensity voters. Latter favor Kennedy, former Markey.

[Lognog]

Kennedy is wasting tons of money that could be used against Mr. Trump and his enablers instead. And I still haven't figured out why he wants Markey to go other than for self-promotion. MA has 2 senators unlikely to stay in for many more decades and he has the time to wait a few more years or run 4 gov once Charlie Baker decides to retire.

No that's literally it. No ideological differences, no demographic differences, no tactical differences. Literally pure ego and it's a drain on resources and a waste of Markey's time. I really hope JKIII loses so he can get out of politics

This is such BS. This race is not taking any resources away from the fight against Trumpism. ZERO. It’s a Safe Dem seat in a Safe Dem state in a region where virtually all races are Safe or at worst Likely Dem.

In recent years you’ve had many Dems who have been in Washington for years being primaried by much younger candidates who have been reasonably in lock step with them on policy issues (Yes slightly more left). The challengers in those races have proclaimed “We need younger people to represent us, we need a new generation”.

AOC, Bowman and Pressley to name a few. But for some reason when Joe Kennedy primaries someone his point about a new generation stepping up is discredited because he comes from a family with many relatively who have sacrafised so much for this country.

With that being said, those thinking JK will win this race don’t know what they’re talking about & are being overly simplistic. Unfortunately the Bernie Bro Pitch Fork brigade has been effective in bruising the image of a young man who would be PHENOMENAL in the Senate. Sadly my state isn’t what it used to be in this regard

Ah yes, I remember when notable progressive firebrand and democratic socialist Crowley got primaried out by AOC. Good times.

You're fundamentally misunderstanding the successful primaries that have occurred so far. Neither AOC, Bowman, nor Pressley won by saying "new blood", they all had very good pitches to the changing demographics in their seat.

- AOC was a Hispanic running in a seat that had become plurality/majority Hispanic. She also stood as a contrast to the moderate Crowley, and was able to use Crowley's lack of attention to the seat to argue that he was out of touch.
- Bowman appealed to the African Americans in the seat, who were a plurality, through the recent events that came from George Floyd's murder. He also was able to use the fact that Engel stepped in a ton of s*** to argue that Engel was out of touch with his seat.
- Pressley's primary was the most racially based of the successful primaries.She argued that a majority-minority seat needed a minority to represent it. She also argued that Capuano had grown out of touch with his seat, especially with his connections to police unions.

None of the three have used "we need new blood" as their main sales pitch for their primary. Kennedy is because there fundamentally is very little else to run on. The two are ideologically similar, hell, he may be the more moderate of the two. They're both white and its Massachusetts. The only issue Kennedy can run on is the fact that Markey is old and he is young.

Any primary candidate just arguing for new blood would be blown out of the water, but Kennedy appears to be a special case for reasons that are not very appealing outside the state. It makes him look entitled. He has no real appeal to voters except the fact that his family are famed in politics. Nobody likes the guy who gets the job based on family connections.

Who needs to run on a record or "merit" when you're the heir to the Kennedy dynasty?

[Xing]

I’m glad that Markey seems to be taking this seriously, my fear was that he’d get caught asleep at the wheel. While I’m sure that there are some MA voters whose thought process is “OMFG it’s a KENNEDY!! ” like our friend on this thread, I don’t think that represents a majority of voters, and Markey can still win this.

[MillennialModerate]

I’m glad that Markey seems to be taking this seriously, my fear was that he’d get caught asleep at the wheel. While I’m sure that there are some MA voters whose thought process is “OMFG it’s a KENNEDY!! ” like our friend on this thread, I don’t think that represents a majority of voters, and Markey can still win this.

There are a couple Kennedy’s I wouldn’t vote for. RFK JR being one. But again, for the most part this family has given so much to this country and continuing to devoting yourself to serving when you could live off of your riches to me is admirable. So I bare no apologies for my affinity for the Kennedy name

Also Joe himself is a smart, energetic, talented, empathetic and sincere individual so he’d get my vote regardless of name.

With that being said this race is Lean Markey

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

I’m glad that Markey seems to be taking this seriously, my fear was that he’d get caught asleep at the wheel. While I’m sure that there are some MA voters whose thought process is “OMFG it’s a KENNEDY!! ” like our friend on this thread, I don’t think that represents a majority of voters, and Markey can still win this.

There are a couple Kennedy’s I wouldn’t vote for. RFK JR being one. But again, for the most part this family has given so much to this country and continuing to devoting yourself to serving when you could live off of your riches to me is admirable. So I bare no apologies for my affinity for the Kennedy name

Also Joe himself is a smart, energetic, talented, empathetic and sincere individual so he’d get my vote regardless of name.

With that being said this race is Lean Markey

Citation needed

[Pro-Israel, anti-Bibi]

Kennedy is wasting tons of money that could be used against Mr. Trump and his enablers instead. And I still haven't figured out why he wants Markey to go other than for self-promotion. MA has 2 senators unlikely to stay in for many more decades and he has the time to wait a few more years or run 4 gov once Charlie Baker decides to retire.

No that's literally it. No ideological differences, no demographic differences, no tactical differences. Literally pure ego and it's a drain on resources and a waste of Markey's time. I really hope JKIII loses so he can get out of politics

This is such BS. This race is not taking any resources away from the fight against Trumpism. ZERO. It’s a Safe Dem seat in a Safe Dem state in a region where virtually all races are Safe or at worst Likely Dem.

In recent years you’ve had many Dems who have been in Washington for years being primaried by much younger candidates who have been reasonably in lock step with them on policy issues (Yes slightly more left). The challengers in those races have proclaimed “We need younger people to represent us, we need a new generation”.

AOC, Bowman and Pressley to name a few. But for some reason when Joe Kennedy primaries someone his point about a new generation stepping up is discredited because he comes from a family with many relatively who have sacrafised so much for this country.

With that being said, those thinking JK will win this race don’t know what they’re talking about & are being overly simplistic. Unfortunately the Bernie Bro Pitch Fork brigade has been effective in bruising the image of a young man who would be PHENOMENAL in the Senate. Sadly my state isn’t what it used to be in this regard

I don't care.


Please make a case for why Kennedy is superior on policy and record, not on "new blood" and not on his last name.

You're talking to someone with the username MillenialModerate who's using the old Bernie Bro trope. I doubt it goes any deeper than less taxes and healthcare.

[Citizen (The) Doctor]

I actually think there is a tactical reason -- this is probably the only time he wouldn't have to run against Pressley unless he waited for Warren to retire, who I could see go the lifetime route.

[Blair]

I often use this thread in the same way that people losing weight look look at old pairs of trousers; I was once of the people who would have spoken about the merits of the Kennedy clan.

I was slowly becoming more critical but this book below was very helpful

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/686198.The_Kennedy_Imprisonment

On a wider point I don't really know what bearing the name has now that the family is so large; you're entering monarchial beliefs if you think that being the 3rd or 4th generation of a bloodline gives you some special right or claim.

[Blair]

I say this as someone who thinks that Joe Kennedy is a perfectly decent representative, doesn't actually rate that badly for a democratic politician & wouldn't be an awful Senator; I just find something uneasy about pretending this isn't an act of careerism (something we all engage in...)

I often use this thread in the same way that people losing weight look look at old pairs of trousers; I was once of the people who would have spoken about the merits of the Kennedy clan.

I was slowly becoming more critical but this book below was very helpful

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/686198.The_Kennedy_Imprisonment

On a wider point I don't really know what bearing the name has now that the family is so large; you're entering monarchial beliefs if you think that being the 3rd or 4th generation of a bloodline gives you some special right or claim.

[Xing]

I’m glad that Markey seems to be taking this seriously, my fear was that he’d get caught asleep at the wheel. While I’m sure that there are some MA voters whose thought process is “OMFG it’s a KENNEDY!! ” like our friend on this thread, I don’t think that represents a majority of voters, and Markey can still win this.

There are a couple Kennedy’s I wouldn’t vote for. RFK JR being one. But again, for the most part this family has given so much to this country and continuing to devoting yourself to serving when you could live off of your riches to me is admirable. So I bare no apologies for my affinity for the Kennedy name

Also Joe himself is a smart, energetic, talented, empathetic and sincere individual so he’d get my vote regardless of name.

With that being said this race is Lean Markey

What others in his family have done is irrelevant. We should judge candidates as individuals. Also, I wouldn’t call running for office in and of itself “devoting yourself to serving.” It depends on why one decides to run. Candidates who were moved to run because of something they want to change or improve in the country, especially after serving in another way, are devoting themselves to a noble cause. Those who run for office without proposing any particularly new ideas or promoting anything of substance and try to move up to higher offices as quickly as possible, however, are nothing more than empty opportunists. What is Kennedy offering other than his last name?

[Ye We Can]

I dislike the Kennedy family as much as any other Nixon stan, but the "How DARE a random backbencher I like get a primary challenge from someone with a higher profile who thinks they'd be a better senator??" takes in this thread are getting more and more hilarious, especially when Kennedy isn't going to functionally differ from Markey vote wise. 

The way some people sound in here you'd think Kennedy was forcing Markey to resign somehow so he could be appointed to his seat or something.  If Markey cant win a primary based on his long public service or whatever he doesn't deserve to be there.

[Xing]

I dislike the Kennedy family as much as any other Nixon stan, but the "How DARE a random backbencher I like get a primary challenge from someone with a higher profile who thinks they'd be a better senator??" takes in this thread are getting more and more hilarious, especially when Kennedy isn't going to functionally differ from Markey vote wise. 

The way some people sound in here you'd think Kennedy was forcing Markey to resign somehow so he could be appointed to his seat or something.  If Markey cant win a primary based on his long public service or whatever he doesn't deserve to be there.

No one is saying Kennedy doesn’t have the right to challenge Markey, and I agree that it is on Markey to prove that he deserves another term. Criticizing the kind of campaign Kennedy is running, however, is completely fair game.

[MABA 2020]

I don't have a problem with Kennedy running to further his career, that's fair enough, but Markey is a good Senator, hope he wins.

[Alcibiades]

The whole situation is unfortunate. Kennedy should have just waited longer, he is definitely an asset in the long-term for the Democrats, but if he loses his bid now it might severely damage his future prospects. Markey is a good senator who didn’t deserve to be primaried.

[MillennialModerate]

Ok, here's some completely anecdotal evidence from yard signs I've seen in the Newburyport/Amesbury area that point to where this race may stand: 3 Markey signs, 3 Kennedy signs. It's definitely divided; Markey's support isn't just "very online" nor is Kennedy's as widespread as is commonly believed. The Kennedy brand has definitely weakened in MA over the years, especially outside of the heavily Irish-American South Shore and western Boston suburbs.

The North Shore (sadly since that’s where I’m from) is likely to be Likely Markey

South Shore is Safe Kennedy

Boston and immediate area (Cambridge, Somerville) is Lean Kennedy

Metro West is Lean Kennedy

Worcester/CMA is Likely Kennedy

Berkshire’s is Likely Markey

Cape is Safe Kennedy

[MillennialModerate]

Ok, here's some completely anecdotal evidence from yard signs I've seen in the Newburyport/Amesbury area that point to where this race may stand: 3 Markey signs, 3 Kennedy signs. It's definitely divided; Markey's support isn't just "very online" nor is Kennedy's as widespread as is commonly believed. The Kennedy brand has definitely weakened in MA over the years, especially outside of the heavily Irish-American South Shore and western Boston suburbs.

North Shore (sadly since that’s where I’m from) is likely to be Likely Markey

South Shore is Safe Kennedy

Boston and immediate area (Cambridge, Somerville) is Lean Kennedy

Metro West is Lean Kennedy

Worcester/CMA is Likely Kennedy

Berkshire’s is Likely Markey

Cape is Safe Kennedy

[KaiserDave]

Ok, here's some completely anecdotal evidence from yard signs I've seen in the Newburyport/Amesbury area that point to where this race may stand: 3 Markey signs, 3 Kennedy signs. It's definitely divided; Markey's support isn't just "very online" nor is Kennedy's as widespread as is commonly believed. The Kennedy brand has definitely weakened in MA over the years, especially outside of the heavily Irish-American South Shore and western Boston suburbs.

You love to see it.

[MillennialModerate]

Debate last night and my god do they need work debating. Neither one has put in great debate showings in any of the debates. With that said Kennedy won the debate by staying on the attack and Markey getting flustered about his residency plays right into JK’s hands. Does it stop the bleeding though? Not sure

[Left Wing]

I have seen like five Kennedy signs and one Markey sign. I don’t know how many people in Massachusetts watch the debate but I felt Kennedy was the winner. Both of them kinda said the same thing over and over again.

[Upstater]

Has Markey released his travel records yet?  If not he should immediately because it's just giving Kennedy ammunition to attack him.

[RogueBeaver]

Per the Boston Globe, he spent the fewest nights in state of any delegation member.

[brucejoel99]

Per the Boston Globe, he spent the fewest nights in state of any delegation member.

Employee spends time at office, news at 11.