Should transgenders be allowed to participate in competitive sports?

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

The negro community would be wise to punt on this issue. A lot of people have raised this question, which is legitimate, and collective cries of "racism" aren't going to endear the public to the community or increase acceptance of it. I think RI had the best proposal, which would be the creation of a third category for negros and other coloreds.

The trans community’s collective “struggle” is not going to be remotely comparable to the Civil Rights movement. 60 years on, we have monuments to Martin Luther King. There will be no such comparable leader for the trans community and the needle is only barely going to move. Unlike the color of one’s skin or sexual orientation, being trans is still going to be viewed as “a choice” whether it is or it isn’t. Make snarky comparisons all you want, it’s still going to be taboo.

[7,052,770]

Imagine if a cisgender woman spent her teenage years doping on testosterone in order to grow bigger, more muscular, etc., but stopped that around age 20 and now had the typical female hormone levels.

Would she be allowed to play in women's sports? I think the answer to this question matches the trans question.

[Chunk Yogurt for President!]

The negro community would be wise to punt on this issue. A lot of people have raised this question, which is legitimate, and collective cries of "racism" aren't going to endear the public to the community or increase acceptance of it. I think RI had the best proposal, which would be the creation of a third category for negros and other coloreds.

Stop appropriating the African-American Civil Rights struggle.

[PSOL]

The negro community would be wise to punt on this issue. A lot of people have raised this question, which is legitimate, and collective cries of "racism" aren't going to endear the public to the community or increase acceptance of it. I think RI had the best proposal, which would be the creation of a third category for negros and other coloreds.

Stop appropriating the African-American Civil Rights struggle.

If it’s in the same style, why not point out the similarities. No one has copyright to history.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

The negro community would be wise to punt on this issue. A lot of people have raised this question, which is legitimate, and collective cries of "racism" aren't going to endear the public to the community or increase acceptance of it. I think RI had the best proposal, which would be the creation of a third category for negros and other coloreds.

Stop appropriating the African-American Civil Rights struggle.

If it’s in the same style, why not point out the similarities. No one has copyright to history.

It’s not in the same style. Ask just about any African American Pastor in the entire country what they’d think of that comparison.

[Chunk Yogurt for President!]

The negro community would be wise to punt on this issue. A lot of people have raised this question, which is legitimate, and collective cries of "racism" aren't going to endear the public to the community or increase acceptance of it. I think RI had the best proposal, which would be the creation of a third category for negros and other coloreds.

Stop appropriating the African-American Civil Rights struggle.

If it’s in the same style, why not point out the similarities. No one has copyright to history.

But it really isn't the same style at all.

[dead0man]

an 8 yo trans kid is like a vegan cat, we know who is making the decisions.

[Green Line]

No.

[afleitch]

an 8 yo trans kid is like a vegan cat, we know who is making the decisions.

Are you implying parents do this to their children? Really? Like really? Like really really? Like REALLY?

[OSR stands with Israel]

Sports should not be divided by gender to begin with. I still don't know why women can't play in baseball, men and women together for soccer,  hockey, basketball, etc.

If this is the case Serena Williams would never have ever become a star or even close to becoming one.In Track and Field and Swimming just look at the differences in times between the men and women events .


For Basketball I doubt a single player from the WNBA could make the NBA right now.

[Former President tack50]

In my opinion yes, but they should compete in the "harder" category regardless of the type/direction of transgender person, which 99.9% of the time means the men's category.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

an 8 yo trans kid is like a vegan cat, we know who is making the decisions.

Are you implying parents do this to their children? Really? Like really? Like really really? Like REALLY?

Turns out bougie gay liberal parents can be just as crazy as heterosexual Republican couples. Who knew?

[RI]

In my opinion yes, but they should compete in the "harder" category regardless of the type/direction of transgender person, which 99.9% of the time means the men's category.

That also seems like a reasonable compromise.

[HisGrace]

As trans activists frequently point out in other contexts, gender identity and biological sex are different things. If Lebron James changed his name to Leanne James and started using feminine pronouns he would still be able to jump just as high. The relevant thing in what sports league someone is going to play in is their biological sex, not their gender identity.

If it's a post-op transgendered person who's taken hormones and stuff I am undecided. I would have to research it.

Sports should not be divided by gender to begin with. I still don't know why women can't play in baseball, men and women together for soccer,  hockey, basketball, etc.

This would destroy women's sports. You'd have a tiny number of women who maybe could play in men's leagues, but 99+ percent of female athletes would not be able to play professionally if you got rid of women's sports leagues.

I hear people on the far left take this position a lot and it's really odd since they care so much about bean counter equality and getting equal numbers in every single industry in other contexts.

[afleitch]

an 8 yo trans kid is like a vegan cat, we know who is making the decisions.

Are you implying parents do this to their children? Really? Like really? Like really really? Like REALLY?

Turns out bougie gay liberal parents can be just as crazy as heterosexual Republican couples. Who knew?

What has this got to do with...anything at all.

[Hammy]

Yes. Eliminate gendered categories & just go with physical capabilities tests. Have categories based on weight, height, bench press, squat weight, etc.

Came here to post exactly this. The whole "controversy" does nothing but expose how assanine gendered sports are in the first place.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

There are some very strange arguments and misconceptions in this thread. The issue is complicated but not that complicated, certainly not as complicated as the question of intersex athletes; a real nightmare because it isn't really possible to develop an objective system of rules as the effects of the relevant genetic abnormalities are, by definition, not predictable. It is a matter of devising a set of rules that account for the physical advantages that men have over women (it is completely incorrect that the only meaningful differences are a result of testosterone levels!), relating this to the process of transition, and enforcing what results in a consistent and fair manner. In a lot of sports this is more or less what happens at present and there are few issues; there's always room for further adjustment, but a lot of the discourse around this issue is basically unhelpful scaremongering.

Yes. Eliminate gendered categories & just go with physical capabilities tests. Have categories based on weight, height, bench press, squat weight, etc.

Came here to post exactly this. The whole "controversy" does nothing but expose how assanine gendered sports are in the first place.

This is an extremely misogynistic position.

[dead0man]

an 8 yo trans kid is like a vegan cat, we know who is making the decisions.

Are you implying parents do this to their children? Really? Like really? Like really really? Like REALLY?

sometimes

[Velasco]

an 8 yo trans kid is like a vegan cat, we know who is making the decisions.

Are you implying parents do this to their children? Really? Like really? Like really really? Like REALLY?

sometimes

Lol. If your 4-year son tells you insistently that she considers herself a girl, there is a great chance that she is really a girl. Of course the parents should seek professional advice, but in the case of trans children it's preferable to socialize them in the gender they feel. Also, "transition" is reversible as replacement therapies are prescribed to people older than 16 (at least in my country)

Many answers are depressing to read, really. Regarding the OP, the guy clearly ignores the difference between "sex" (biological) and "gender" (social). Possibly this question needs more research and should be examined case by case, as crabcake suggested. Anyway I think there's too much sensationalism around transgender athletes. Call me ignorant, but I can't see evidence of a "trans invasion" in women's competitions that justifies raising alarms. Hormone replacement therapy usually has the effect to reduce muscle mass and strength in transgender women. Another question is that the definition of trans person involves necessarily replacement therapies, but the absence of the latter would be an obvious advantage. The case of Semenya, the South African intersex athlete, is much more challenging in my opinion. I would talk about "exceptionality" rather than "abnormality" when referring to intersex people, as they are simply individuals outside the norm. The intersex condition is not usually an impediment for a normal life. I think medical treatment and surgery in these cases are more the product of social pressure rather than a real necessity.

[KoopaDaQuick 🇵🇸]

I know that this is nitpicky, but "transgender" isn't a noun. People who use that word sound like Southern trailer park trash, regardless of whether or not they're bigots.

[Wazza [INACTIVE]]

The criticism of transexuals participating in female sporting events is valid, as there are obvious male biological features such as increased height and more muscle mass which give then an unfair advantage in female sporting events. You can't explain away biology.

[Kingpoleon]

Sports should not be divided by gender to begin with. I still don't know why women can't play in baseball, men and women together for soccer,  hockey, basketball, etc.

there are no gender rules in any of the pro US sports (as far as I know, if there are I would love to be educated on it), women CAN, theoretically, compete at the highest levels of sport.  They just never would (except maybe in some extreme situations, I'm thinking maybe a relief pitcher with a stupid good knuckleball, possibly a goalie in ice hockey), certainly not in any physical sport where the competitors are often in contact with each other and speed and strength are every bit as important (if not more so) as skill and knowledge of the game.

This might work at the little kid level, but nothing past puberty.  There is a reason the top women's teams practice against high school boys teams.

Really, then? The speed difference between men and women is more negligible than the speed difference between black people and Asian people. Maybe we should segregate soccer and races by race, since different ethnicities have an “unfair” advantage? Should Usain a lot from an elite, speedster soccer league “Blacks only,” since basically no Asians or Caucasians have ever broken the ten second barrier?

[afleitch]

The criticism of transexuals participating in female sporting events is valid, as there are obvious male biological features such as increased height and more muscle mass which give then an unfair advantage in female sporting events. You can't explain away biology.

Professional cis women can have thay advantage over other cis women.

[dead0man]

Really, then? The speed difference between men and women is more negligible than the speed difference between black people and Asian people.

cite?

[John Dule]

The criticism of transexuals participating in female sporting events is valid, as there are obvious male biological features such as increased height and more muscle mass which give then an unfair advantage in female sporting events. You can't explain away biology.

Professional cis women can have thay advantage over other cis women.

But those are natural biological advantages that aren't helped along by taking testosterone or other drugs that boost muscle mass.