UK General Discussion: 2019. Blackadder goes Brexit.

[jaichind]

They are now going to vote on Letwin.  Most likely it will pass and then the ball passes to Johnson to request an extension and EU to approve the extension. 

[Omega21]

What the hell is the point of the Letwin amendment anyway?

Honestly, I do not know how the EU has any more damn patience. British politicians are playing games, and it's only because the EU didn't make it clear no further extension would be provided.

[jaichind]

Letwin  passes 322 to 306

[jaichind]

What the hell is the point of the Letwin amendment anyway?

Honestly, I do not know how the EU has any more damn patience. British politicians are playing games, and it's only because the EU didn't make it clear no further extension would be provided.

The idea is that anti-No deal bloc is fearful if they pass the Johnson deal and then Johnson does NOT have to ask for an extension then next week when there is a vote for laws needed to cement the deal the No Deal bloc will vote no and then throw UK into No Deal Brexit 10/31

[jaichind]

In the end DUP made no difference.  Even if they voted the other way  Letwin would have passed anyway.

[jaichind]

Boris says "I will not seek a delay" ? But that is against the law.  No idea what is going on now

[CumbrianLefty]

Yes it is illegal is the short answer. Johnson/Cummings may still have some wheezes to try and dodge the Benn act, but none of them are likely to succeed.

[Blair]

What the hell is the point of the Letwin amendment anyway?

Honestly, I do not know how the EU has any more damn patience. British politicians are playing games, and it's only because the EU didn't make it clear no further extension would be provided.

Stops us leaving with no deal if the ERG pull some sh**t next week & removes the threat of a no deal being used as a hammer against lab leavers

[Omega21]

What the hell is the point of the Letwin amendment anyway?

Honestly, I do not know how the EU has any more damn patience. British politicians are playing games, and it's only because the EU didn't make it clear no further extension would be provided.

Stops us leaving with no deal if the ERG pull some sh**t next week & removes the threat of a no deal being used as a hammer against lab leavers

The threat of no-deal is just what all the UK Politicians need to fall in line. They have been extremely unproductive, wasting everyone's time like it's everyone else's responsibility to wait an eternity for them to finally find a solution.

It's a shame the EU didn't lay out the rules clearer, the only way I would grant an extension now would be if the opposition was able to vote Johnson out.

[CumbrianLefty]

An absolutely hardcore 6 Labour MPs voted against Letwin - Barron, Campbell, Fitzpatrick, Flint, Hoey and Mann.

[Angel of Death]

In the end DUP made no difference.  Even if they voted the other way  Letwin would have passed anyway.

No, it would have lost 312 to 316 then.

[jaichind]

In the end DUP made no difference.  Even if they voted the other way  Letwin would have passed anyway.

No, it would have lost 312 to 316 then.

You are right. Did my math wrong

[Middle-aged Europe]

Boris Johnson's "the will of the people always overrules the rule of law" approach to politics is really a throwback to much darker times. If the people of the UK would vote in a referendum to, let's say, chemically castrate all the gays and Parliament would pass an act to the contrary would he still go ahead and chemically castrate all the gays because he must follow the will of the people?

[Tintrlvr]

Boris Johnson's "the will of the people always overrules the rule of law" approach to politics is really a throwback to much darker times. If the people of the UK would vote in a referendum to, let's say, chemically castrate all the gays and Parliament would pass an act to the contrary would he still go ahead and chemically castrate all the gays because he must follow the will of the people?

Positively Cromwellian, really. I'm sure he would appreciate the comparison.

[CumbrianLefty]

You spelled "Churchillian" wrong there, our PM really does see himself in similar vein.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Seems like Parliament just won't let BoJo win

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Seems like Parliament just won't let BoJo win

By this point no one* is going to win in a way that they would have defined a win themselves not that long ago. On today's numbers, though, the deal ought to get through safely enough early next week, so long as the government doesn't do anything extraordinarily stupid in the mean time.

_{*Except for the E.U. as an institution: after all the principle modifications that Johnson made to May's deal were to remove the negotiating gains that May made against the initial E.U. position - hysterical.}

[CumbrianLefty]

The deal may well get through, but surely the difference now is that MPs will have some proper time to "scrutinise" it?

(in some cases "scrutinise" means just what it says, in other cases rather different)

[Filuwaúrdjan]

The deal may well get through, but surely the difference now is that MPs will have some proper time to "scrutinise" it?

(in some cases "scrutinise" means just what it says, in other cases rather different)

Yes, this is also true - and fits the general pattern.

[Green Line]

Boris should just martyr himself.  Refuse to send the letter and go to jail.  He wants to deliver Brexit?  There's the way forward.

[Silent Hunter]

I don't think Boris would like our prisons very much.

[Silent Hunter]

Seems like Parliament just won't let BoJo win

By this point no one* is going to win in a way that they would have defined a win themselves not that long ago. On today's numbers, though, the deal ought to get through safely enough early next week, so long as the government doesn't do anything extraordinarily stupid in the mean time.

_{*Except for the E.U. as an institution: after all the principle modifications that Johnson made to May's deal were to remove the negotiating gains that May made against the initial E.U. position - hysterical.}

This government does extraordinarily stupid a lot of the time. Could be some interesting amendments to the WA bill out there and some came pretty close to passing in the past.

[Blair]

What the hell is the point of the Letwin amendment anyway?

Honestly, I do not know how the EU has any more damn patience. British politicians are playing games, and it's only because the EU didn't make it clear no further extension would be provided.

Stops us leaving with no deal if the ERG pull some sh**t next week & removes the threat of a no deal being used as a hammer against lab leavers

The threat of no-deal is just what all the UK Politicians need to fall in line. They have been extremely unproductive, wasting everyone's time like it's everyone else's responsibility to wait an eternity for them to finally find a solution.

It's a shame the EU didn't lay out the rules clearer, the only way I would grant an extension now would be if the opposition was able to vote Johnson out.

I don't like the idea of using mass economic chaos and societal panic (the reality of no-deal) to force MPs into accepting a brexit deal that will cause a huge amount of harm to our economy, whilst having no legal guarantees on issues like environmental and workers rights.

I also hate the idea as framing this as a failure of parliament; this is a failure of various actors. In a matter where there is not a black and white option requiring an immediate choice (declare war on Germany, nationalise the banks etc) you can't expect a hung parliament in our system to make such a seismic decision affecting 55% of our trade & our biggest political relationship change since the act of union.

Theresa May used Brexit as a political hammer to beat the Labour party with; rather than turning the result into a chance a chance to do something constructive (back in late 2016) she thought it would give her a 150 seat majority if she accused Labour of hating britain.

She loses her majority & Labour surge in remain seats & yet she continues to push ahead with a brexit deal that only appealed to Tory MPs

Irish Home Rule took decades to resolve, the Good Friday Agreement took years & years, US intervention and two referendums to decide.

[Gass3268]

https://twitter.com/JamesMelville/status/1185605845440180231?s=20

[jaichind]

Looks like Johnson sent the letter asking for extension but did not sign it. The letter was accompanied with another letter saying Johnson does not want an extension.   This will go to the courts.