UK General Discussion: 2019. Blackadder goes Brexit.

[Antonio the Sixth]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/10/12/voters-will-have-show-casting-ballot-prevent-electoral-fraud/ (yeah I know it's the bloody Telegraph but can you believe it, the BBC aren't reporting on it? Shocking I know)

The Tories, deciding that winning the next election by conventional means is too much effort, have decided that it's going to be much easier to simply disenfranchise millions of people who have committed the heinous crime of not having enough money to buy an ID. I'm no legal expert so whether this stands up in the courts or not is beyond me, but it is unsurprising.

...so GOP voter suppression tactics have officially made their entry in British politics. Wonderful. Just wonderful.

[The Free North]

How popular is Corbyn with Labour voters? His approval amongst the general public is dismal. I know thats not news to most people, but I just took a look and some polls have him underwater by 50 points. Thats Bush levels of terrible. 

[Coldstream]

How popular is Corbyn with Labour voters? His approval amongst the general public is dismal. I know thats not news to most people, but I just took a look and some polls have him underwater by 50 points. Thats Bush levels of terrible. 

He’s widely detested, but the party brand is strong enough to withstand it for most voters - particularly when Boris Johnson is so bad.

[CumbrianLefty]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/10/12/voters-will-have-show-casting-ballot-prevent-electoral-fraud/ (yeah I know it's the bloody Telegraph but can you believe it, the BBC aren't reporting on it? Shocking I know)

The Tories, deciding that winning the next election by conventional means is too much effort, have decided that it's going to be much easier to simply disenfranchise millions of people who have committed the heinous crime of not having enough money to buy an ID. I'm no legal expert so whether this stands up in the courts or not is beyond me, but it is unsurprising.

...so GOP voter suppression tactics have officially made their entry in British politics. Wonderful. Just wonderful.

A lot of Tories have fairly openly desired this stuff for some time now. Their determination for a decade to effectively rig constituency boundaries in their favour should have been a pretty big pointer.

At present they don't have the votes for it in parliament though, so no chance of this happening *before* a GE.

[Conservatopia]

How popular is Corbyn with Labour voters? His approval amongst the general public is dismal. I know thats not news to most people, but I just took a look and some polls have him underwater by 50 points. Thats Bush levels of terrible. 

There was a poll (albeit a YouGov one) showing Swinson more popular than Corbyn among Labour voters.

[RaphaelDLG]

Why has Jeremy Corbyn become so unpopular in the last few years despite obviously having the best platform?

I get that he's not an amazing strategic leader, and I get that there is a (what seems to me to be largely bogus) antisemitism scandal, but I don't understand why he's become so much more thoroughly disliked.

Is it the outrageously right wing media in the UK, voters taking their cues from Blairites trying to sabotage him, or maybe a realignment of British politics around Brexit that makes him less appealing to the remain coalition?  Or some combination of all three?

[Filuwaúrdjan]

If that is your starting point then it isn't as if you would believe the truth (e.g. manifold manifest political failures and scandals), so why waste time elaborating? But perhaps you would find it instructive to note that the rot really set in after his response to the Skripal affair.

[Starry Eyed Jagaloon]

Why has Jeremy Corbyn become so unpopular in the last few years despite obviously having the best platform?

Perhaps because a lot of Brits think his platform is, understandably, trash? Also, he's just really unlikeable.

[RaphaelDLG]

If that is your starting point then it isn't as if you would believe the truth (e.g. manifold manifest political failures and scandals), so why waste time elaborating? But perhaps you would find it instructive to note that the rot really set in after his response to the Skripal affair.

I don't follow British politics super closely, though I have enjoyed following British elections since the mid 00s.

I do read a decent amount of British papers and they all seem horrifyingly biased (which is saying something, because I live in America).

I am not asking this facetiously - what were these manifold failures and scandals? 

It seemed like last time I checked in in 2017, he was able to pull a surprising upset vs May despite extremely unfavorable press coverage and a very hostile, resentful Blairite wing.

[Antonio the Sixth]

The antisemitism is very much a real and systematic issue within Labour. It does predate Corbyn, but he has consistently failed to do anything about it and been dismissive of people who have been sounding the alarm.

Someone like Luciana Berger shouldn't by any right have joined Umunna's centrist vanity project, and almost certainly wouldn't have if her party hadn't treated her like an outcast.

[CumbrianLefty]

Why has Jeremy Corbyn become so unpopular in the last few years despite obviously having the best platform?

Perhaps because a lot of Brits think his platform is, understandably, trash? Also, he's just really unlikeable.

Neither of these things are actually correct - Labour's policies under JC often poll well in particular.

[DaWN]

Why has Jeremy Corbyn become so unpopular in the last few years despite obviously having the best platform?

Perhaps because a lot of Brits think his platform is, understandably, trash? Also, he's just really unlikeable.

Neither of these things are actually correct - Labour's policies under JC often poll well in particular.

Which says a lot about how awful he is that Labour is in the sh!tter despite that

[RaphaelDLG]

The antisemitism is very much a real and systematic issue within Labour. It does predate Corbyn, but he has consistently failed to do anything about it and been dismissive of people who have been sounding the alarm.

Someone like Luciana Berger shouldn't by any right have joined Umunna's centrist vanity project, and almost certainly wouldn't have if her party hadn't treated her like an outcast.

In the inquiry, 0.08% of Labour members were found to have engaged in antisemitic behavior and ejected. 

Obviously all anti-semitic behavior is objectionable and wrong, but are we really to believe that the general British public (or the conservative party for that matter) has less anti-semitism than that and that this is an outrageous scandal?

Because of the way the anti-semitism scandal has been exaggerated by the media, Brits believe when asked by pollsters that something like 35% of labour members are anti-semitic, which is a gross overestimation.

Also, I have yet to find Corbyn or Labour's current leadership do or say anything that is genuinely anti-Semitic, and it seems to a (admittedly not terribly close) observer like its the same smear that goes in America, i.e., if you criticize Israel's government and you support increased autonomy / rights for Palestinians, that means you must of course hate Jews / be a self-hating Jew.

[DaWN]

The antisemitism is very much a real and systematic issue within Labour. It does predate Corbyn, but he has consistently failed to do anything about it and been dismissive of people who have been sounding the alarm.

Someone like Luciana Berger shouldn't by any right have joined Umunna's centrist vanity project, and almost certainly wouldn't have if her party hadn't treated her like an outcast.

In the inquiry, 0.08% of Labour members were found to have engaged in antisemitic behavior and ejected. 

If you truly believe that's the case then I have a bridge I'd like to sell to you

[brucejoel99]

The antisemitism is very much a real and systematic issue within Labour. It does predate Corbyn, but he has consistently failed to do anything about it and been dismissive of people who have been sounding the alarm.

Someone like Luciana Berger shouldn't by any right have joined Umunna's centrist vanity project, and almost certainly wouldn't have if her party hadn't treated her like an outcast.

In the inquiry, 0.08% of Labour members were found to have engaged in antisemitic behavior and ejected. 

Obviously all anti-semitic behavior is objectionable and wrong, but are we really to believe that the general British public (or the conservative party for that matter) has less anti-semitism than that and that this is an outrageous scandal?

Because of the way the anti-semitism scandal has been exaggerated by the media, Brits believe when asked by pollsters that something like 35% of labour members are anti-semitic, which is a gross overestimation.

Also, I have yet to find Corbyn or Labour's current leadership do or say anything that is genuinely anti-Semitic, and it seems to a (admittedly not terribly close) observer like its the same smear that goes in America, i.e., if you criticize Israel's government and you support increased autonomy / rights for Palestinians, that means you must of course hate Jews / be a self-hating Jew.

To be quite honest, at this point, whether Labour is or isn't institutionally anti-Semitic is irrelevant when it seems much of the public already thinks they are.

I don't see how they come back from that.

[OSR stands with Israel]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/15/boris-johnson-close-to-brexit-deal-after-border-concessions

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/15/the-votes-are-now-there-for-brexit-deal-says-jacob-rees-mogg

[parochial boy]

So Boris gets a deal by *checks notes* totally capitulating?

Oh well done, good stuff, definitely worth the 12 month drama

[brucejoel99]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/15/boris-johnson-close-to-brexit-deal-after-border-concessions

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/15/the-votes-are-now-there-for-brexit-deal-says-jacob-rees-mogg

We can only hope. A deal is better than leaving with no deal.

[OSR stands with Israel]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/15/boris-johnson-close-to-brexit-deal-after-border-concessions

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/15/the-votes-are-now-there-for-brexit-deal-says-jacob-rees-mogg

We can only hope. A deal is better than leaving with no deal.

If he gets this passed then I think it will only reflect how bad a PM May was.

[brucejoel99]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/15/boris-johnson-close-to-brexit-deal-after-border-concessions

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/15/the-votes-are-now-there-for-brexit-deal-says-jacob-rees-mogg

We can only hope. A deal is better than leaving with no deal.

If he gets this passed then I think it will only reflect how bad a PM May was.

If anything, it just reflects on how her backbenchers were such a bunch of extremists.

And I'd hold your horses. The UK/EU reaching a deal isn't that much of a stretch, but them reaching one that can actually get passed by the Commons is another matter altogether. Even with the ERG on board, the DUP have said that they won't back a deal if it's the result of more concessions to EU (& especially if the rumors of a customs border down the Irish Sea are indeed true), Labour MPs have apparently been warned that they won't be allowed to stand as Labour MPs again if they vote for a deal, & I'd just love to see how BoJo & Mogg expect to have the support of the former Tories from whom they withdrew the whip.

Not to mention, at this point, a deal might be the worst thing possible for the Tories, politically speaking, in that I can already hear Farage sharpening his knife. He's not gonna tolerate a deal in any form.

[Pericles]

This deal will shrink the economy by 6%, only slightly less than no deal would. Even if he can actually get an agreement, it still looks hard to get a majority for it and parliament should reject his deal, or at least attach a confirmatory vote to it.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Labour MPs have apparently been warned that they won't be allowed to stand as Labour MPs again if they vote for a deal

Oh for f**k's sake.

Labour has the biggest interest in settling the Brexit issue once and for all. If they'd voted for May's deal, chances are they wouldn't be polling at 20% right now.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Labour MPs have apparently been warned that they won't be allowed to stand as Labour MPs again if they vote for a deal

Oh for f**k's sake.

Labour has the biggest interest in settling the Brexit issue once and for all. If they'd voted for May's deal, chances are they wouldn't be polling at 20% right now.

We've gone a full circle from "Corbyn's government in inevitable" to "Labour's back on the suicide mode".

[CumbrianLefty]

Labour MPs have apparently been warned that they won't be allowed to stand as Labour MPs again if they vote for a deal

Oh for f**k's sake.

Labour has the biggest interest in settling the Brexit issue once and for all. If they'd voted for May's deal, chances are they wouldn't be polling at 20% right now.

They aren't polling at 20% in any poll right now.

And their poll drop is significantly down to remain voters having bought the media/#FBPE line that Corbyn "wants Brexit" (regardless of his actual public statements and votes on it since 2016)

LibDems are literally praying Labour votes for any Johnson deal.

(spoiler alert - its not going to happen)

[The Dowager Mod]

Larry is my hero btw. 
https://twitter.com/Number10cat/status/1184162957518934017