UK General Discussion: 2019. Blackadder goes Brexit.

[Blair]

Lol So asking the queen to progue parliament is unconstitutional but asking the queen to topple a PM isnt


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-09-30/johnson-s-foes-plot-a-humble-attempt-to-oust-him-as-premier

AHHHHHHH can you please learn how our political system works before commenting?

[Antonio the Sixth]

So... BoJo's new "I-Can't-Believe-It's-Not-A-Backstop" plan is pretty much DOA. It will be either no deal or another extension.

The Tories just put up an ad for a Tory MEP internship in Brussels that starts on November 1st, so it seems like the behind-the-scenes presumption is that BoJo's gonna take the plunge &, as mandated by law, request the extension that he so desperately wants to not request.

Funnily enough, this reminds me of when the Tories were officially saying that they wouldn't hold the EU elections whilst simultaneously sending word out behind-the-scenes to their constituency associations to tell them to prepare for the EU elections.

AYY LMAO

[Silent Hunter]

It's for the political group that the Tories are in there. Not quite the same thing.

[IceAgeComing]

Lol So asking the queen to progue parliament is unconstitutional but asking the queen to topple a PM isnt


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-09-30/johnson-s-foes-plot-a-humble-attempt-to-oust-him-as-premier

Even if its unusual for the Humble Address process to be used in this way: if the Prime Minister both loses the vote on the Queens Speech (traditionally a matter of confidence although not officially one under the Fixed Term Parliament Act since its a terribly flawed piece of legislation) and Parliament passes a Humble Address basically saying "we want xxx to be Prime Minister" then the impact of that would be to basically say that Parliament has confidence in someone else.

Besides Parliament explicitly has the power to remove a Prime Minister: I imagine that this is all coupled with a FTPA-compliant Confidence Vote; and if one of those passes plus a Humble Address saying "we would like Jeremy Corbyn to be Prime Minister" or whoever they choose then the Prime Minister constitutionally has no choice but to go to the Palace to tender his resignation.  The executive serves at the will of Parliament and if Parliament elects to request that someone else takes control then that is the power that they have.

[Pericles]

If the Spartans and the DUP are saying something's a compromise, you can be pretty sure it's not actually a compromise.

[brucejoel99]

Lol So asking the queen to progue parliament is unconstitutional but asking the queen to topple a PM isnt


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-09-30/johnson-s-foes-plot-a-humble-attempt-to-oust-him-as-premier

Even if its unusual for the Humble Address process to be used in this way: if the Prime Minister both loses the vote on the Queens Speech (traditionally a matter of confidence although not officially one under the Fixed Term Parliament Act since its a terribly flawed piece of legislation) and Parliament passes a Humble Address basically saying "we want xxx to be Prime Minister" then the impact of that would be to basically say that Parliament has confidence in someone else.

Besides Parliament explicitly has the power to remove a Prime Minister: I imagine that this is all coupled with a FTPA-compliant Confidence Vote; and if one of those passes plus a Humble Address saying "we would like Jeremy Corbyn to be Prime Minister" or whoever they choose then the Prime Minister constitutionally has no choice but to go to the Palace to tender his resignation.  The executive serves at the will of Parliament and if Parliament elects to request that someone else takes control then that is the power that they have.

LOL good luck trying to convince OSR that parliamentary-based executive power is actually how things sometimes work outside of the U.S.

[Coastal Elitist]

Can any EU country veto a brexit extension?

[Omega21]

Can any EU country veto a brexit extension?

Yes, a single member can veto it.

Which, I would be for if I actually didn't feel bad for the British people (both Leavers and Remainers).

Some parts of their political system are so insanely rotten, which is pretty clear from the way their politicians have handled Brexit. (Not that they don't do some other things better than Europe)

[brucejoel99]

Can any EU country veto a brexit extension?

Yes, a veto would only require one of the EU27 countries as the agreement to extend must be unanimous. But no country in their right mind would do so, however, as it wouldn't be in their interests.

[OSR stands with Israel]

Can any EU country veto a brexit extension?

I hope they veto it at this point I support Hard Brexit over no Brexit which is what I think other side really wants.

[brucejoel99]

Can any EU country veto a brexit extension?

I hope they veto it at this point I support Hard Brexit over no Brexit which is what I think other side really wants.

For the umpteenth time: a 👏 Hard 👏 Brexit 👏 would 👏 be 👏 horrific 👏 for 👏 the 👏 UK!

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Can any EU country veto a brexit extension?

I hope they veto it at this point I support Hard Brexit over no Brexit which is what I think other side really wants.

For the umpteenth time: a 👏 Hard 👏 Brexit 👏 would 👏 be 👏 horrific 👏 for 👏 the 👏 UK!

It helps to support the Hard Brexit if you'll be thousands of miles away from the nightmare happening after that.

[Omega21]

Can any EU country veto a brexit extension?

I hope they veto it at this point I support Hard Brexit over no Brexit which is what I think other side really wants.

For the umpteenth time: a 👏 Hard 👏 Brexit 👏 would 👏 be 👏 horrific 👏 for 👏 the 👏 UK!

It helps to support the Hard Brexit if you'll be thousands of miles away from the nightmare happening after that.

To be honest I wished someone would veto them as I wanted Europe to get on with other things, but more recently I have changed my position, as the people of Britain (both "deal Leavers" and Remainers) don't deserve to pay for the incompetence of their Leaders and the shortfalls of their political system.

I also doubt 50+% want no deal, so it would be kinda cruel.

However, I would like to see a "Deal - No Deal" Referendum.

The 1st one was held, and the question was answered, the second one would just make things much clearer.

[OSR stands with Israel]

Can any EU country veto a brexit extension?

I hope they veto it at this point I support Hard Brexit over no Brexit which is what I think other side really wants.

For the umpteenth time: a 👏 Hard 👏 Brexit 👏 would 👏 be 👏 horrific 👏 for 👏 the 👏 UK!

Then would you support a referendum between these two options : The May Deal or Hard Brexit .

[OSR stands with Israel]

Can any EU country veto a brexit extension?

I hope they veto it at this point I support Hard Brexit over no Brexit which is what I think other side really wants.

For the umpteenth time: a 👏 Hard 👏 Brexit 👏 would 👏 be 👏 horrific 👏 for 👏 the 👏 UK!

It helps to support the Hard Brexit if you'll be thousands of miles away from the nightmare happening after that.

I have a cousin who lives there and my dad has a sister who lives there(My dad’s position on the issue is even more pro Brexit than mine)

[brucejoel99]

Can any EU country veto a brexit extension?

I hope they veto it at this point I support Hard Brexit over no Brexit which is what I think other side really wants.

For the umpteenth time: a 👏 Hard 👏 Brexit 👏 would 👏 be 👏 horrific 👏 for 👏 the 👏 UK!

Then would you support a referendum between these two options : The May Deal or Hard Brexit .

I don't see why my personal views on the subject (as an uninvolved American) are at all relevant but since you're asking, sure. The people already voted for Brexit, so democratically speaking, at least this would let the people dictate the kind of Brexit they get. They'd be stupid to go for a hard Brexit over a deal, but hey, that's their prerogative.

[Pericles]

Can any EU country veto a brexit extension?

I hope they veto it at this point I support Hard Brexit over no Brexit which is what I think other side really wants.

For the umpteenth time: a 👏 Hard 👏 Brexit 👏 would 👏 be 👏 horrific 👏 for 👏 the 👏 UK!

Then would you support a referendum between these two options : The May Deal or Hard Brexit .

That option wouldn't solve the issue. Remain is likely more popular than either option, and indeed if Remain had run against any specific Brexit option it probably would have won, but as Brexit was never clearly defined people imagined Leave as having the sovereignty restoration of Hard Brexit while having the economic stability of a softer Brexit (rather than May's deal like the Norway option or Labour's plan). No deal was not a viable option for Brexit in 2016, and it in particular has no mandate and goes against what the Leave campaign promised, so it can't be reasonably argued that no deal is the confirmed will of the people. Brexit was never clearly defined, and so there is no mandate for any particular Brexit option, and no matter what the option many people will feel it is illegitimate. In addition, many of the promises of the Leave campaign now don't match with reality, it would be undemocratic for people to have to go through with Brexit if they've changed their minds, this is a high possibility. So Remain has to be an option on the ballot paper.

[Blair]

No A50 extension won’t mean a ‘hard brexit’- it means a no-Deal Brexit, which means all 500 transitional arrangements, agreements and procedures are gone. As I’ve posted many times this will mean the police will lose key tools to catch criminals, ports will face delays, prices will go and etc.

God knows what will happen to people reliant on food banks, or any govt services when the whole of Whitehall will be focused on keeping medicine coming. God knows what happens if there’s a huge flood, a NHS winter crisis or any other event which needs govt response..

Besides, TMs Deal is a hard Brexit. A hard Brexit is any form of Brexit that is not soff- e.g full membership of Customs & single market.

It’s laughable that brexiteers have more from Norway, to Mays Deal, to ‘bin the backstop’ to ‘no deal’. It’s like going from a Porsche to a space hopper.

[Helsinkian]

European Research Group's chair said that if the UK is still in the EU after 1 November and thus has to nominate an EU Commissioner then that Commissioner should be Nigel Farage.

[Former President tack50]

Can any EU country veto a brexit extension?

Yes, a veto would only require one of the EU27 countries as the agreement to extend must be unanimous. But no country in their right mind would do so, however, as it wouldn't be in their interests.

For what's worth Macron has sometimes threatened to veto an extension, but I seriously doubt he would actually do so if it really comes down to it.

[CumbrianLefty]

European Research Group's chair said that if the UK is still in the EU after 1 November and thus has to nominate an EU Commissioner then that Commissioner should be Nigel Farage.

Thanks for that, we could do with a laugh.

[jaichind]

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1186839/brexit-news-boris-johnson-hungary-viktor-orban-nigel-farage-dominic-grieve-no-deal

Hungary angle again.  I think a better EU country for Johnson to bribe would be Malta.  Something like a promise of a naval base in return for a veto.

[CumbrianLefty]

No small EU country will veto an extension for the UK, its simply not in their long term interests to do so.

[brucejoel99]

No small EU country will veto an extension for the UK, its simply not in their long term interests to do so.

This is why Hungary (let alone any EU27 country) shooting themselves in the foot because Boris batted his pretty eyelashes at them has always been a huge stretch for my credibility. Just think of it from Hungary's point of view: risk alienating themselves amongst the trading bloc they're a relatively small member of, or risk basically nothing by not backing a country leaving said bloc who are going to be politically & economically weaker after they leave. They have nothing to gain & a lot to lose.

[Blair]

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1186839/brexit-news-boris-johnson-hungary-viktor-orban-nigel-farage-dominic-grieve-no-deal

Hungary angle again.  I think a better EU country for Johnson to bribe would be Malta.  Something like a promise of a naval base in return for a veto.

It’s worth remembering  the current Brexit argument (the Irish border) is solely about the EU protecting it’s smaller nation states; Malta or Hungary aren’t going to through the EU under a bus for a government with no parliamentary majority.

What good is a naval base for Malta? It’s like me hospitalising my dad in exchange for a motorbike (I cant drive)