UK General Discussion: 2019. Blackadder goes Brexit.

[Middle-aged Europe]

https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1176436372045029376



https://twitter.com/guyverhofstadt/status/1176441621962985474



https://twitter.com/George_Osborne/status/1176441325236957184

[Middle-aged Europe]

https://twitter.com/elliotttimes/status/1176451117540134912

[Middle-aged Europe]

https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1176454382893879296

[CumbrianLefty]

So much for Remain strategic voting for Labour...

The large majority of Labour MPs and activists/members are pro-remain and would campaign in another referendum in favour of it whatever the "official" party line.

(even leaving aside that another vote was *the* central demand of anti-Brexit campaigners until, like, a few weeks ago)

Ah yes, no need to worry about all that because the LibDems will sweep to power

[Torrain]

https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1176463082765332481

[Torrain]

https://twitter.com/BBCBreaking/status/1176467700731846656

[CumbrianLefty]

Boris' luck is really something. The news cycle is all about Labour embarrassing themselves at Conference and then suddenly this comes along and puts all the embarrassment onto him. I'd feel sorry for him if it wasn't hilarious. And he wasn't him.

This feeds into his narrative if anything. Him with the referenfum mandate Vs the Remain establishment.

But you can use that as an argument, pretty much, for not opposing him on anything at all.

Fundamentally defeatist IMO.

[Middle-aged Europe]

https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1176464997175701505

[Filuwaúrdjan]

https://twitter.com/BBCBreaking/status/1176467700731846656

They don't have any choice in the matter!

[Filuwaúrdjan]

The ruling was unanimous. Given the very wide range of known constitutional views on the Court, this is really telling.

[Lumine]

Brilliant flawless mastermind Dominic Cummings triumphs again. Will he ever make any single mistake?

[Middle-aged Europe]

Brilliant flawless mastermind Dominic Cummings triumphs again. Will he ever make any single mistake?

Clearly the "we only need to be bold and audacious" strategy has failed.

[Torrain]

https://twitter.com/BBCBreaking/status/1176467700731846656

They don't have any choice in the matter!

Oh, I know. But given that LEave.eu has spent all day smearing the Supreme Court, one member at a time, it's good to know that they aren't trying to reject the role of the judiciary outright.

My standards for what constitutes good news hve really fallen over the last year.

[Serenity Now]

The phrase "I'm not asking you, I'm telling you" comes to mind.

https://twitter.com/BBCBreaking/status/1176467700731846656

They don't have any choice in the matter!

[President Johnson]

I wonder what happens if Johnson simply refuses to send a letter to Brussels with a request for another delay. Actually I hope that happens, as I'm sick and tired of Brexit. Take the negotiated deal or just get out.

[Cassius]

Brilliant flawless mastermind Dominic Cummings triumphs again. Will he ever make any single mistake?

I’m not a disciple of Cummings, but the prorogation strategy would have worked were it not for the legal chicanery that followed it. One could argue that that should have been foreseen, but the law is hardly clear cut on the issue of prorogation - the Court of Session ruled it justiciable and illegal, whereas the High Court’s or Justice and of Northern Ireland ruled it injusticiable, and from there it was punted to the Supreme Court which subsequently ruled as it did. Had there been non prorogation, we would’ve been in exactly the same position as we have been throughout this parliament; an executive unable to government and a legislature unable to make up its mind as to what it wants to do. Prorogation would’ve broken this deadlock and actually allowed the executive to function effectively for once.

[brucejoel99]

I wonder what happens if Johnson simply refuses to send a letter to Brussels with a request for another delay. Actually I hope that happens, as I'm sick and tired of Brexit. Take the negotiated deal or just get out.

If he refuses to send the letter ahead of time, he'll be VoNC'd & a caretaker PM will be installed who will send the letter. If the stalls & stalls & stalls & the deadline passes without him sending it, he'll be sent to prison for contempt.

And as sick & tired as we all are of Brexit right now, it's nothing compared to the madness that would be a no-deal.

[Dereich]

I wonder what happens if Johnson simply refuses to send a letter to Brussels with a request for another delay. Actually I hope that happens, as I'm sick and tired of Brexit. Take the negotiated deal or just get out.

If he refuses to send the letter ahead of time, he'll be VoNC'd & a caretaker PM will be installed who will send the letter.  If the stalls & stalls & stalls & the deadline passes without him sending it, he'll be sent to prison for contempt.

And as sick & tired as we all are of Brexit right now, it's nothing compared to the madness that would be a no-deal.

Would one though? Last time the issue came up, Corbyn insisted on himself as temporary PM and the Lib Dems/Tory Rebels insisted on anyone but him. The issue went away when a different avenue to attack Brexit arose, but it wasn't really resolved.

[CumbrianLefty]

Quite a lot has happened in recent months that people previously thought wasn't possible. If the PM is banking on the inability of his opponents to agree a replacement, he could yet be disappointed again.

[Antonio the Sixth]

I hope and believe that this day will go down in British history. What happened today is incredibly important. It's not even necessarily that important for Brexit, or even for Boris Johnson's political career. It's important for the fundamental principle it begins to establish in British law (and hopefully, this will also reverberate in countries whose laws were inspired by Britain). For over half a century, parliamentary democracy has been in decline across the Western world, as executives have increasingly arrogated power for themselves. "Parliamentary supremacy", that big word of British constitutional discourse, seemed to have a legal fiction, withall real decisions being taken in Downing Street. Parliament's hamstringing of the government's Brexit negotiations first, and now this Supreme Court ruling, are the first steps in reversing this dynamic, and giving back Parliament meaningful decision-making power. If you look at this in conjunction with Italy's government crisis, and possibly Netanyahu's upcoming fall from power (three admittedly very different political developments), the common thread is the failure of personalist leaders to impose their will on plural, representative, deliberative bodies. This is a heartening series of developments for democracy.

[brucejoel99]

I wonder what happens if Johnson simply refuses to send a letter to Brussels with a request for another delay. Actually I hope that happens, as I'm sick and tired of Brexit. Take the negotiated deal or just get out.

If he refuses to send the letter ahead of time, he'll be VoNC'd & a caretaker PM will be installed who will send the letter.  If the stalls & stalls & stalls & the deadline passes without him sending it, he'll be sent to prison for contempt.

And as sick & tired as we all are of Brexit right now, it's nothing compared to the madness that would be a no-deal.

Would one though? Last time the issue came up, Corbyn insisted on himself as temporary PM and the Lib Dems/Tory Rebels insisted on anyone but him. The issue went away when a different avenue to attack Brexit arose, but it wasn't really resolved.

He insisted on it being him at first but then changed his tune to leaving the door open re: supporting an alternative caretaker PM, which tells me he'll end up falling in line if a caretaker PM actually ends up looking necessary.

[OSR stands with Israel]

I wonder what happens if Johnson simply refuses to send a letter to Brussels with a request for another delay. Actually I hope that happens, as I'm sick and tired of Brexit. Take the negotiated deal or just get out.

If he refuses to send the letter ahead of time, he'll be VoNC'd & a caretaker PM will be installed who will send the letter. If the stalls & stalls & stalls & the deadline passes without him sending it, he'll be sent to prison for contempt.

And as sick & tired as we all are of Brexit right now, it's nothing compared to the madness that would be a no-deal.

The main problem for Parliament is The Tories still lead in the polls by a good amount despite all of this so using traditional means won’t work . And vote of no confidence will just trigger a new election which is what Boris wants

[brucejoel99]

I wonder what happens if Johnson simply refuses to send a letter to Brussels with a request for another delay. Actually I hope that happens, as I'm sick and tired of Brexit. Take the negotiated deal or just get out.

If he refuses to send the letter ahead of time, he'll be VoNC'd & a caretaker PM will be installed who will send the letter. If the stalls & stalls & stalls & the deadline passes without him sending it, he'll be sent to prison for contempt.

And as sick & tired as we all are of Brexit right now, it's nothing compared to the madness that would be a no-deal.

The main problem for Parliament is The Tories still lead in the polls by a good amount despite all of this so using traditional means won’t work . And vote of no confidence will just trigger a new election which is what Boris wants

The polls are quite literally useless right now as people who'd vote Tory post no-deal but wouldn't in the case of an extension are basing their vote on a complete fantasy where exiting the EU will bring them whatever kind of unicorn Brexit they've dreamt of. It's literally useless information considering the reality of no-deal would make them less enthusiastic about the party that caused it.

And a VoNC only triggers an election if an alternative government can't be formed within 14 days of the VoNC being passed. If a caretaker PM is already lined up, though (as is expected), then automatically triggering an election isn't an issue. Now, of course, said caretaker PM is still guaranteed to call an election (which would now be supported by Parliament this time) after successfully requesting the extension, but an election held after an extension would likely not be good for the Tories.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

I wonder what happens if Johnson simply refuses to send a letter to Brussels with a request for another delay. Actually I hope that happens, as I'm sick and tired of Brexit. Take the negotiated deal or just get out.

If he refuses to send the letter ahead of time, he'll be VoNC'd & a caretaker PM will be installed who will send the letter.  If the stalls & stalls & stalls & the deadline passes without him sending it, he'll be sent to prison for contempt.

And as sick & tired as we all are of Brexit right now, it's nothing compared to the madness that would be a no-deal.

Would one though? Last time the issue came up, Corbyn insisted on himself as temporary PM and the Lib Dems/Tory Rebels insisted on anyone but him. The issue went away when a different avenue to attack Brexit arose, but it wasn't really resolved.

There is no such thing as a "No Deal" Brexit. Even if Great Britain were actually capable of cutting off all commerce with the Continent (which it is not), Northern Ireland has a land border with Ireland that for reasons both practical and historical cannot just be severed.

The only question with any Brexit with how much negotiating happens before vs how much happens afterwards, when the UK is in a much weaker position.

[CumbrianLefty]

I mean, that BoJo speech to the UN.......

Weird or what??