UK General Discussion: 2019. Blackadder goes Brexit.

[The Mikado]

What a disgrace.  A minority is holding hostage & completely paralyzing the government.  The UK needs serious constitutional reform if and when this ever ends.

They could've avoided all of this if Theresa May hadn't called an election in 2017 and lost her majority, forcing a really awkward minority government supported by nutjobs from Northern Ireland. Just saying, Tories brought this on themselves.

[Perlen vor den Schweinen]

I unironically wish Michael Heseltine was still an MP, thus available to lead the government of national unity.

Blondman will come and save the nation!

[Joe Republic]

Was kicking out 21 members of your party on the same day you lost your working majority the... um... right strategy here?

I imagine the idea is that once an election has been forced they will be replaced in their mostly safe Tory constituencies with True Believers who will do Johnson's bidding.

Yes, I do see the theoretical logic in withdrawing the whip from the rebels and then immediately calling an election to get rid of them.  But when you still need all the precious votes you can get to call the election in the first place, suddenly pulling the rugs (of safe re-election) our from under 21 of your own MPs is not a particularly clever way to go about it.

[Joe Republic]

What a disgrace.  A minority is holding hostage & completely paralyzing the government.

Indeed, Boris truly is the worst.

[OSR stands with Israel]

This mess shows why the US system is much better. A strong separate executive branch would have avoided this mess .

[Joe Republic]

^ Please stop posting in this thread.  You’re embarrassing the rest of us Americans.

[Silent Hunter]

Guess we will get another season of Dumpster fire politics, hurray!

We call them skips in the UK. Suggest this thread is renamed to "Blackadder's Skip Fire".

Can you translate "great big girl's blouse" into American English?

"You're a wimpy girl":

https://www.thecut.com/2019/09/boris-johnson-big-girls-blouse-meaning.html

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Was kicking out 21 members of your party on the same day you lost your working majority the... um... right strategy here?

I imagine the idea is that once an election has been forced they will be replaced in their mostly safe Tory constituencies with True Believers who will do Johnson's bidding.

Yes, I do see the theoretical logic in withdrawing the whip from the rebels and then immediately calling an election to get rid of them.  But when you still need all the precious votes you can get to call the election in the first place, suddenly pulling the rugs (of safe re-election) our from under 21 of your own MPs is not a particularly clever way to go about it.

Particularly odd is that some had already announced they were retiring at the next election and that others were obviously contemplating it.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

What a disgrace.  A minority is holding hostage & completely paralyzing the government.  The UK needs serious constitutional reform if and when this ever ends.

So the government is holding itself hostage, since they're the ones in minority now.

[Middle-aged Europe]

https://mobile.twitter.com/JoJohnsonUK/status/1169555292918571008

BoJo has lost his brother.

[Pericles]

There seems to be a bit of a dangerous assumption among those who supported this Bill that the EU would automatically approve another extension. The Bill takes this as a given - it is not. If there is a clear prospect of an alternative Government coming to power (which, according to polling there isnt) or a second referendum, then yes they would likely, but otherwise I have my doubts. The idea of renegotiating with Mr.Johnson is a obvious farce at this point. Very many people in the EU, chiefly the French, want this over as soon as possible, even if that means no-deal.
It would be very ironic if the EU were the ones forcibly delivering the referendum result, against the will of the "traitors" in the UK parliament. I wonder what the Brexiteers would say then.

It looks like there will be a general election very soon though and the outcome is unpredictable so the EU probably should grant an extension.

[YL]

Luciana Berger, MP for Liverpool Wavertree, ex-Labour, then Change UK, most recently one of "The Independents", has joined the Lib Dems.

[Brittain33]

Oh my God, the potential for an Orpington by-election with a surprise rejection of Conservatives is just too poetic for words.

(Yes, I know it voted leave. And there will be an election so no by-election. Let me dream.)

[CumbrianLefty]

There seems to be a bit of a dangerous assumption among those who supported this Bill that the EU would automatically approve another extension. The Bill takes this as a given - it is not. If there is a clear prospect of an alternative Government coming to power (which, according to polling there isnt) or a second referendum, then yes they would likely, but otherwise I have my doubts. The idea of renegotiating with Mr.Johnson is a obvious farce at this point. Very many people in the EU, chiefly the French, want this over as soon as possible, even if that means no-deal.
It would be very ironic if the EU were the ones forcibly delivering the referendum result, against the will of the "traitors" in the UK parliament. I wonder what the Brexiteers would say then.

It looks like there will be a general election very soon though and the outcome is unpredictable so the EU probably should grant an extension.

Whatever they may say, it is inconceivable the EU won't grant an extension if a GE is called soon. And they certainly won't be foolish enough to uncritically believe opinion polls after 2017.

[Mr. Illini]

This mess shows why the US system is much better. A strong separate executive branch would have avoided this mess .

[rosin]

What a disgrace.  A minority is holding hostage & completely paralyzing the government.  The UK needs serious constitutional reform if and when this ever ends.

So the government is holding itself hostage, since they're the ones in minority now.

The government is surely holding itself hostage. If it wasn't for Boris' stubbornity
(if that word exists ), the situation would not be as chaotic as now.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Speaking of possible national unity government, the combined force of the Tory dissenders that had their whip withdrawn, Labour and Liberal Democrats posses only 284 votes, which is well short of the required majority of 326. Such a coalition would require additional votes from other groups, and this is where it becomes tricky. The SNP has a substantial numbers (35 MPs), but it's the party that's fundamentally opposed to preserving the Union, and thus a strange candidate. A "confidence and supply" could be a diffrent matter, though.

So, if we were to add remaining non-separatist, pro-European parties to the mix, we'll still have only 298 votes. There are also a few independents (discounting the Tory dissidents), but I dare not to weight on this here.

And there's another problem with the Tory dissidents: they're not really a monolithic group and some are already expressing interest to get back on as soon as possible.

At this point I think it's not impossible for Boris to hang on just like May had, despite losing a vote after vote, simply because the opposition has no means of forming a viable government, and I don't see anybody wanting a snap election at this point.

[Tintrlvr]

Speaking of possible national unity government, the combined force of the Tory dissenders that had their whip withdrawn, Labour and Liberal Democrats posses only 284 votes, which is well short of the required majority of 326. Such a coalition would require additional votes from other groups, and this is where it becomes tricky. The SNP has a substantial numbers (35 MPs), but it's the party that's fundamentally opposed to preserving the Union, and thus a strange candidate. A "confidence and supply" could be a diffrent matter, though.

So, if we were to add remaining non-separatist, pro-European parties to the mix, we'll still have only 298 votes. There are also a few independents (discounting the Tory dissidents), but I dare not to weight on this here.

And there's another problem with the Tory dissidents: they're not really a monolithic group and some are already expressing interest to get back on as soon as possible.

At this point I think it's not impossible for Boris to hang on just like May had, despite losing a vote after vote, simply because the opposition has no means of forming a viable government, and I don't see anybody wanting a snap election at this point.

The SNP would have no problem supporting a national unity government and have made clear that thye'd be glad to do so (although they among the opposition parties would most prefer a new election). The conflict is over who would lead that government (Corbyn is not an acceptable choice to the LDs or the ex-Tories, and most Labourites would reject a non-Labour option), not who would join it.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

(1) Boris could threaten to deny Royal Assent for the no-deal bill, until an election has been called, which Labour wont call until royal assent has been granted.  

Didn't know it works like this. So basically the Prime Minister can deny Royal Assent to a bill that was passed by the Commons?

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Speaking of possible national unity government, the combined force of the Tory dissenders that had their whip withdrawn, Labour and Liberal Democrats posses only 284 votes, which is well short of the required majority of 326. Such a coalition would require additional votes from other groups, and this is where it becomes tricky. The SNP has a substantial numbers (35 MPs), but it's the party that's fundamentally opposed to preserving the Union, and thus a strange candidate. A "confidence and supply" could be a diffrent matter, though.

So, if we were to add remaining non-separatist, pro-European parties to the mix, we'll still have only 298 votes. There are also a few independents (discounting the Tory dissidents), but I dare not to weight on this here.

And there's another problem with the Tory dissidents: they're not really a monolithic group and some are already expressing interest to get back on as soon as possible.

At this point I think it's not impossible for Boris to hang on just like May had, despite losing a vote after vote, simply because the opposition has no means of forming a viable government, and I don't see anybody wanting a snap election at this point.

The SNP would have no problem supporting a national unity government and have made clear that thye'd be glad to do so (although they among the opposition parties would most prefer a new election). The conflict is over who would lead that government (Corbyn is not an acceptable choice to the LDs or the ex-Tories, and most Labourites would reject a non-Labour option), not who would join it.

Thanks for clarifying on the SNP.

Also, I've heard Harriet Harman is being floated as a possible PM, which would satisfy the Labour and she'd be more acceptable to others as an elder stateswoman that doesn't hold any party leadership position.

I think that a national unity government with one of the party leaders as PM simply wouldn't work. It can be either a senior dissenting Tory, like Clarke (though I agree with Lumine chances doesn't seem to good), or an elder statesman from the opposition.

[GM Team Member and Senator WB]

i think it's fairly obvious who should lead a national unity government. Someone who can bring ORDAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA to this chaos.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

...what the Christ was that?

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

This bill represents an attempt by the legislature to assume the mantle of government. That is why it is wrong. That is why it is illegitimate ...

Parliamentary supremacy? I don't know her.

[cp]

...what the Christ was that?

Chaos with Ed Milliband.

[Lord Halifax]

...what the Christ was that?

What are you referring to?