UK General Discussion: 2019. Blackadder goes Brexit.

[parochial boy]

And really what I think this shows is how absurdly weak Britain's constitution-slash-constitutional-conventions actually is/are - ironically (or not), made all the weaker by David "quick fix" Cameron

[Middle-aged Europe]

It's a very British coup.

[Blair]

The irony of course being that we’re watching the Italian System deal with a right wing egotist much more effectively than our own system; everyone has been saying for months (and years) just how rotten are system is- all it takes is a push and our entire system will collapse.

Thank God for Bercow; and this has certainly focused minds. The biggest danger was that the opposition would keep bickering and fumbling; but now there’s a clear objective to stop parliament being shut down, or at the least legislate to stop no deal.

[Silent Hunter]

Much more effectively? Silvio Berlusconi says otherwise...

[Blair]

Much more effectively? Silvio Berlusconi says otherwise...

I meant more so with how their head of state dealt with the election request; but of course it’s apples and oranges

[CumbrianLefty]

Also, Ruth Davidson is resigning as Scottish Conservative leader.

Which could actually be highly significant in several ways.

[Mr. Illini]

Buzz Feed says that Boris and his team are considering additional grossly un-democratic moves to force no deal, such as adding bank holidays, packing the House of Lords, and refusing to step down in case of no confidence

https://www.buzzfeed.com/alexwickham/boris-johnson-brexit-extreme-measures

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Buzz Feed says that Boris and his team are considering additional grossly un-democratic moves to force no deal, such as adding bank holidays, packing the House of Lords, and refusing to step down in case of no confidence

https://www.buzzfeed.com/alexwickham/boris-johnson-brexit-extreme-measures

An Eton/Oxbridge/Spectator-orbit posho seeing representative democracy as an irritating obstacle to be juiced and gamed as much as possible to get what he wants?! Say it ain't so!

Democracy: just a minor inconvenience to be brushed away in modern Britain

By the remain side which has refused to respect the outcome of the referendum for more than three years now, you mean? You're right.

"And you are lynching Negroes!"

[OSR stands with Israel]

Maybe if Labour and even Lib Dems didn’t reject every deal May offered , this day may not have come . The fact is Corbyn wants No Deal Brexit which is why he torpedoed every Deal Brexit , as once the deadline passes no deal Brexit will happen.


Yes Boris shouldn’t have done this but this day wouldn’t have come if the parliament accepted Theresa May’s deal

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Maybe if Labour and even Lib Dems didn’t reject every deal May offered , this day may not have come . The fact is Corbyn wants No Deal Brexit which is why he torpedoed every Deal Brexit , as once the deadline passes no deal Brexit will happen.


Yes Boris shouldn’t have done this but this day wouldn’t have come if the parliament accepted Theresa May’s deal

That's nonsense. If Corbyn can't get remain, then he wants Norway Plus, which is about the opposite of no deal Brexit.

[Zinneke]

Buzz Feed says that Boris and his team are considering additional grossly un-democratic moves to force no deal, such as adding bank holidays, packing the House of Lords, and refusing to step down in case of no confidence

https://www.buzzfeed.com/alexwickham/boris-johnson-brexit-extreme-measures

Like I said above, can he not just do nothing even if Parliament passes a motion to demand an extension on the deadline? Just pretend he was incapacitated or something?

[DaWN]

Buzz Feed says that Boris and his team are considering additional grossly un-democratic moves to force no deal, such as adding bank holidays, packing the House of Lords, and refusing to step down in case of no confidence

https://www.buzzfeed.com/alexwickham/boris-johnson-brexit-extreme-measures

Like I said above, can he not just do nothing even if Parliament passes a motion to demand an extension on the deadline? Just pretend he was incapacitated or something?

Well, we've reached the point where it's being seriously suggested the Prime Minister pretend to be sick like he's a schoolboy avoiding a test. Can't see how this all gets any more ridiculous.

[Silent Hunter]

Ruth Davidson has resigned as Scottish Tory leader.

Also, Lord Young of Cookham i.e. George Young, former Cabinet minister, has resigned as a junior whip over this.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

Democracy: just a minor inconvenience to be brushed away in modern Britain

Democracy: my side lost the vote so now we demand a second vote on the first vote!

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

Ruth Davidson has resigned as Scottish Tory leader.

Also, Lord Young of Cookham i.e. George Young, former Cabinet minister, has resigned as a junior whip over this.

... Honestly didn't know that a thatcher cabinet minister still had a government position. Don't you love the Lords?

[CumbrianLefty]

Democracy: just a minor inconvenience to be brushed away in modern Britain

Democracy: my side lost the vote so now we demand a second vote on the first vote!

Just asking, how long should a vote taken in 2016 remain totally unchallengably sacrosanct?

(if we had voted to leave by over 60% it might be a different matter - but amongst other things the march of demographics - older voters passing away, younger ones being enfranchised - means that *even if nobody else changed their vote* a rerun today would be a literal photo finish)

[Silent Hunter]

Especially a 52-48 vote conducted with considerable Russian propaganda assistance to a Leave campaign using a premise now proved false.

[Mr. Illini]

Democracy: just a minor inconvenience to be brushed away in modern Britain

Democracy: my side lost the vote so now we demand a second vote on the first vote!

I didn't realize that No Deal Brexit was on the ballot in 2016.

[Omega21]

Season 3 of Brexit is even more exciting lol

Also, anyone have any statistics on emigration to the EU in recent months? I feel like I'm hearing a lot more Brits here in Vienna recently, but could be just tourists.

[The Free North]

Democracy: just a minor inconvenience to be brushed away in modern Britain

Democracy: my side lost the vote so now we demand a second vote on the first vote!

Just asking, how long should a vote taken in 2016 remain totally unchallengably sacrosanct?

(if we had voted to leave by over 60% it might be a different matter - but amongst other things the march of demographics - older voters passing away, younger ones being enfranchised - means that *even if nobody else changed their vote* a rerun today would be a literal photo finish)

I don't disagree, but it sets a bit of a dangerous precedent whereby popular will can be eroded away by time and inactivity.

[CumbrianLefty]

Democracy: just a minor inconvenience to be brushed away in modern Britain

Democracy: my side lost the vote so now we demand a second vote on the first vote!

Just asking, how long should a vote taken in 2016 remain totally unchallengably sacrosanct?

(if we had voted to leave by over 60% it might be a different matter - but amongst other things the march of demographics - older voters passing away, younger ones being enfranchised - means that *even if nobody else changed their vote* a rerun today would be a literal photo finish)

I don't disagree, but it sets a bit of a dangerous precedent whereby popular will can be eroded away by time and inactivity.

And to some extent I can sympathise with that, I have never been one of the #FBPE crowd.

But the fact is that, with some honourable exceptions, the winning side in the referendum have taken it as a mandate to do whatever they wish - despite the narrowness of the result. And they got greedy and decided only the hardest Brexit would do (often as part of a twisted "culture war" platform)

A "threshold" for the referendum above a bare plurality might have avoided a lot of angst.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Ruth Davidson has resigned as Scottish Tory leader.

Also, Lord Young of Cookham i.e. George Young, former Cabinet minister, has resigned as a junior whip over this.

... Honestly didn't know that a thatcher cabinet minister still had a government position. Don't you love the Lords?

Thatcher's Scotland and Defence Secretary was George Younger. George Young was Major's last Transport Secretary. Still been in Parliament in some capacity since 1974, though.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

Ruth Davidson has resigned as Scottish Tory leader.

Also, Lord Young of Cookham i.e. George Young, former Cabinet minister, has resigned as a junior whip over this.

... Honestly didn't know that a thatcher cabinet minister still had a government position. Don't you love the Lords?

Thatcher's Scotland and Defence Secretary was George Younger. George Young was Major's last Transport Secretary. Still been in Parliament in some capacity since 1974, though.

actually I was thinking of David Lord Young, the Industry Secretary who replaced Tebbitt, but thanks. Weird how common the name is for Tories.

[Statilius the Epicurean]

Buzz Feed says that Boris and his team are considering additional grossly un-democratic moves to force no deal, such as adding bank holidays, packing the House of Lords, and refusing to step down in case of no confidence

https://www.buzzfeed.com/alexwickham/boris-johnson-brexit-extreme-measures

Like I said above, can he not just do nothing even if Parliament passes a motion to demand an extension on the deadline? Just pretend he was incapacitated or something?

Yes, although the Prime Minister may be prosecuted and jailed for refusing to implement Parliamentary legislation.

The most worrying part of that article to me is the bit about advising the Queen to refuse royal assent. That really would be a constitutional crisis.

[Dereich]

Buzz Feed says that Boris and his team are considering additional grossly un-democratic moves to force no deal, such as adding bank holidays, packing the House of Lords, and refusing to step down in case of no confidence

https://www.buzzfeed.com/alexwickham/boris-johnson-brexit-extreme-measures

Like I said above, can he not just do nothing even if Parliament passes a motion to demand an extension on the deadline? Just pretend he was incapacitated or something?

Its not like the EU is a static entity that can't act for itself and can't see what's going on in Britain. If Parliament passed an extension, is there any reason the EU wouldn't grant an extension even without Boris himself formally asking for one? If they could (and Parliament could push back the UK-specific deadlines) there would be no reason for them to wait for Boris anyway.