Mass incarceration: racism or classism?

[Kizzuwanda]

I am wondering because it is clear that prisons are overwhelmingly full of poor people and when you take that into consideration the race disparity seems to mostly - not entirely - disappear:
https://jacobinmag.com/2018/01/mass-incarceration-race-class-peoples-policy-project

There is no official data of the % of prisoners who had incomes below the poverty level but it is known that 70% are high school dropouts compared to only 10% of the population which is far greater than the race disparity.

[brucejoel99]

Racial minorities are more likely than whites to be arrested; once arrested, they're more likely to be convicted; & once convicted, they're more likely to experience lengthy prison sentences.

This isn't classism. This is racism.

[Blue3]

Why can't it include both, as well as a focus in our criminal justice system on retributive justice and instead of restorative justice, as well as feeding recidivism and the prison-industrial complex?

[Green Line]

The whole premise of the question is based on the flawed assumption that there is mass incarceration.

[darklordoftech]

Race is likely the motive, even if poor whites are swept up in it.

[brucejoel99]

The whole premise of the question is based on the flawed assumption that there is mass incarceration.

You're being facetious, right?

[Green Line]

The whole premise of the question is based on the flawed assumption that there is mass incarceration.

You're being facetious, right?

I need facts.  Mass incarceration is just an emotional reaction.  Major metropolitan areas in the US already release an absurd amount of criminals onto the streets who should be locked up for a long time.  You can be arrested for carrying illegal firearms to infinity and not serve a serious sentence.

[brucejoel99]

The whole premise of the question is based on the flawed assumption that there is mass incarceration.

You're being facetious, right?

I need facts.  Mass incarceration is just an emotional reaction.  Major metropolitan areas in the US already release an absurd amount of criminals onto the streets who should be locked up for a long time.  You can be arrested for carrying illegal firearms to infinity and not serve a serious sentence.

Well, there are a multitude of reasons as to how America's mass incarceration problem is real.

Tough on crime politics have been a mainstay of American politics since Nixon. This has so many facets to it: the introduction of mandatory minimums, with sentencing guidelines perhaps being the most significant single factor in the US, as they're grossly unjust & an utter failure; harsh & wide-reaching police powers coupled with astronomically huge law enforcement budgets; tight parole laws (don't give me some anecdotal evidence about a rapist who got out; the American corrections system is gargantuan, & a mistake here & there can simultaneously both happen & still be a small drop in a big bucket).

Not to mention, the elephant in the room, i.e. the unique set of American social conditions that makes these other factors especially prone to causing mass incarceration: racism & poverty. These aren't unique to the US among developed countries by any stretch, but they're particularly bad here. The very minimalist American welfare state & social safety nets are in of themselves criminogenic. Plus, it's a sad fact that race relations in America are also completely toxic between police & racial minorities.

If you're interested in learning more about this issue, I'd suggest reading The New Jim Crow.

[Pericles]

This is an example of the classic problem we see on some parts of the left where problems are either an issue of race or class and you have to care about either racism or classism. The fact of the matter is, both racism and classism are real and pressing problems, both feed into one another, and both need to be addressed, people would be poorly served if only racism or only classism were addressed.

[Slander and/or Libel]

I am wondering because it is clear that prisons are overwhelmingly full of poor people and when you take that into consideration the race disparity seems to mostly - not entirely - disappear:
https://jacobinmag.com/2018/01/mass-incarceration-race-class-peoples-policy-project

There is no official data of the % of prisoners who had incomes below the poverty level but it is known that 70% are high school dropouts compared to only 10% of the population which is far greater than the race disparity.

If you're saying black men are only more likely to end up in prison than white men because black men are more likely to be lower class than white men, then you're just raising a new question. At root, class-not-race analyses ALWAYS shift the question of why these disparities between races exist, rather than actually answering the question directly.

[Ilhan Apologist]

Race is likely the motive, even if poor whites are swept up in it.

[TDAS04]

Both, even if it's more one than the other.

[Some of My Best Friends Are Gay]

[Senator Incitatus]

In most of the United States (or even the Western Hemisphere), this is hardly a meaningful distinction. Colonial race theory was invented in order to and has been perpetuated deliberately to uphold the master–slave class structure.

[RaphaelDLG]

Any answer that isn't "both" is patently false because they are intimately intertwined. 

For example, a major reason that the idea of a "black person" started to exist was so rich southern landowners would have a group of laborers that it was okay to brutally exploit

[Esteemed Jimmy]

Both

[RI]

While there are certainly racist elements within the criminal justice system, "classism" is a far more apt descriptor overall.

[MasterJedi]

It's both, I would say racism is slightly bigger factor though or we'd have a lot more incarcerated poor white people hooked on meth and opiates than we do right now.

[Co-Chair Bagel23]

Its neither. The US should be incarcerating MORE criminal scumbags. The fact that most prisoners come from certain  demographics is because those are where most scumbag criminal vermin come from.

Oh people, we sure are in for a ride here...

[urutzizu]

Its neither. The US should be incarcerating MORE criminal scumbags. The fact that most prisoners come from certain  demographics is because those are where most scumbag criminal vermin come from.

Oh people, we sure are in for a ride here...

You did not see his first 10 or so posts that were all modded within a couple of minutes. I got a glimpse at those masterpieces. In his "all about yourself" he put "white and proud", and it only went downhill from there. Anyway this guy is definitively a troll, a sock or a fascist. And probably all three.

[dw93]

Any answer that isn't "both" is patently false because they are intimately intertwined. 

For example, a major reason that the idea of a "black person" started to exist was so rich southern landowners would have a group of laborers that it was okay to brutally exploit

[Person Man]

Its neither. The US should be incarcerating MORE criminal scumbags. The fact that most prisoners come from certain  demographics is because those are where most scumbag criminal vermin come from.

Oh people, we sure are in for a ride here...

You did not see his first 10 or so posts that were all modded within a couple of minutes. I got a glimpse at those masterpieces. In his "all about yourself" he put "white and proud", and it only went downhill from there. Anyway this guy is definitively a troll, a sock or a fascist. And probably all three.

If it was for him, everyone would be born in jail and then have to prove they don't belong there.