CIO Fox guest: "Great blessing" that old Americans can't afford to retire

[Fuzzy Bear]

I learned over a decade ago that the types of people who populate the Business channels and business websites, the kind of day trader, financial industry types are some of the most horrible people ever.

I recall reading an article from 2009 that claimed the recession was a good thing because it meant he could finally get decent service at the coffee shop since it was an employers market.

As the type of conservative that seeks to understand and prevent the kind of conditions that lead to the rise of people like Lenin, I must say this attitude makes me sick and is part of the reason I have been railing against Investor's Business Daily and Wall Street Journal even back in the days when I was a Romney supporter.

Yeah, it's interesting (and/or concerning) that capitalism, or the business elite, or whatever, used to have the ability to adapt and constrain the most excessive edges of capitalism for the good of its own survival. I mean, the embedded liberal era is the most obvious example of this, where capitalism was able to reform itself, precisely to stave of the Communist thread.

Nowadays though, it seems to have lost its ability to do this, and desparately screams down even the most tepid attempts to reform or constrain it. This may be precisely because there isn't an equivalent of Soviet Russia looming in the background - but it doesn't seem too far fetched to feel that modern liberal capitalism's refusal to bend with the prevailing wind is going to contain the seeds of its own downfall.

Of course because something has to give. If people are suffering and the one in power refuses to budge, sooner or later something is going to break lose and is probably that guy's head when the revolution begins.

The GOP once understood this, and they governed accordingly.  They were a party that, on the local level, recognized that it took money investment to build and maintain a middle-class society.  That's what the suburban GOP in the Northeast and California was about; it's about what the GOP in much of the Midwest was about. 

One reason I voted for Trump was that he appeared to be the kind of Republican that understood this.  One of my disappointments with Trump is that he's governed in alliance with Republicans who don't understand this, or who don't care.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I learned over a decade ago that the types of people who populate the Business channels and business websites, the kind of day trader, financial industry types are some of the most horrible people ever.

I recall reading an article from 2009 that claimed the recession was a good thing because it meant he could finally get decent service at the coffee shop since it was an employers market.

As the type of conservative that seeks to understand and prevent the kind of conditions that lead to the rise of people like Lenin, I must say this attitude makes me sick and is part of the reason I have been railing against Investor's Business Daily and Wall Street Journal even back in the days when I was a Romney supporter.

Yeah, it's interesting (and/or concerning) that capitalism, or the business elite, or whatever, used to have the ability to adapt and constrain the most excessive edges of capitalism for the good of its own survival. I mean, the embedded liberal era is the most obvious example of this, where capitalism was able to reform itself, precisely to stave of the Communist thread.

Nowadays though, it seems to have lost its ability to do this, and desparately screams down even the most tepid attempts to reform or constrain it. This may be precisely because there isn't an equivalent of Soviet Russia looming in the background - but it doesn't seem too far fetched to feel that modern liberal capitalism's refusal to bend with the prevailing wind is going to contain the seeds of its own downfall.

Of course because something has to give. If people are suffering and the one in power refuses to budge, sooner or later something is going to break lose and is probably that guy's head when the revolution begins.

The GOP once understood this, and they governed accordingly.  They were a party that, on the local level, recognized that it took money investment to build and maintain a middle-class society.  That's what the suburban GOP in the Northeast and California was about; it's about what the GOP in much of the Midwest was about. 

One reason I voted for Trump was that he appeared to be the kind of Republican that understood this.  One of my disappointments with Trump is that he's governed in alliance with Republicans who don't understand this, or who don't care.

Yea, they just want to abolish the gov't now it seems except for DoD.

[Fuzzy Bear]

I learned over a decade ago that the types of people who populate the Business channels and business websites, the kind of day trader, financial industry types are some of the most horrible people ever.

I recall reading an article from 2009 that claimed the recession was a good thing because it meant he could finally get decent service at the coffee shop since it was an employers market.

As the type of conservative that seeks to understand and prevent the kind of conditions that lead to the rise of people like Lenin, I must say this attitude makes me sick and is part of the reason I have been railing against Investor's Business Daily and Wall Street Journal even back in the days when I was a Romney supporter.

Yeah, it's interesting (and/or concerning) that capitalism, or the business elite, or whatever, used to have the ability to adapt and constrain the most excessive edges of capitalism for the good of its own survival. I mean, the embedded liberal era is the most obvious example of this, where capitalism was able to reform itself, precisely to stave of the Communist thread.

Nowadays though, it seems to have lost its ability to do this, and desparately screams down even the most tepid attempts to reform or constrain it. This may be precisely because there isn't an equivalent of Soviet Russia looming in the background - but it doesn't seem too far fetched to feel that modern liberal capitalism's refusal to bend with the prevailing wind is going to contain the seeds of its own downfall.

Of course because something has to give. If people are suffering and the one in power refuses to budge, sooner or later something is going to break lose and is probably that guy's head when the revolution begins.

The GOP once understood this, and they governed accordingly.  They were a party that, on the local level, recognized that it took money investment to build and maintain a middle-class society.  That's what the suburban GOP in the Northeast and California was about; it's about what the GOP in much of the Midwest was about. 

One reason I voted for Trump was that he appeared to be the kind of Republican that understood this.  One of my disappointments with Trump is that he's governed in alliance with Republicans who don't understand this, or who don't care.

Yea, they just want to abolish the gov't now it seems except for DoD.

Kind of funny this topic has come up.  My wife and I were talking about working while collecting Social Security, should we wait until age 70 (she's 64, I'm 62) or begin collecting at age 66, when we can still work full time.  I guess we're living the dream too, lol.

[junior chįmp]

Boomers are taking the ladder of social mobility with them as they leave the country in massive debt and the Earth environmentally doomed

[JA]

Republican voters thought they were voting for Pat Buchanan when they voted for Donald Trump and his version of conservatism. Instead, they were simply voting for Romney-Ryan Republicanism, but with more xenophobia and brown children in cages.

[Joe Republic]

One reason I voted for Trump was that he appeared to be the kind of Republican that understood this.

You’re either extraordinarily gullible, or a truly horrendous judge of political acumen.

[Hammy]

If any good has come from Trump's election, it's that Republicans are no longer, in any way, hiding what sort of awful people they are.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

If any good has come from Trump's election, it's that Republicans are no longer, in any way, hiding what sort of awful people they are.

As I said in my post, the same sentiments were being expressed in articles featured on Yahoo Finance in 2009.

[pbrower2a]

I learned over a decade ago that the types of people who populate the Business channels and business websites, the kind of day trader, financial industry types are some of the most horrible people ever.

I recall reading an article from 2009 that claimed the recession was a good thing because it meant he could finally get decent service at the coffee shop since it was an employers market.

As the type of conservative that seeks to understand and prevent the kind of conditions that lead to the rise of people like Lenin, I must say this attitude makes me sick and is part of the reason I have been railing against Investor's Business Daily and Wall Street Journal even back in the days when I was a Romney supporter.

Yeah, it's interesting (and/or concerning) that capitalism, or the business elite, or whatever, used to have the ability to adapt and constrain the most excessive edges of capitalism for the good of its own survival. I mean, the embedded liberal era is the most obvious example of this, where capitalism was able to reform itself, precisely to stave of the Communist thread.

Nowadays though, it seems to have lost its ability to do this, and desparately screams down even the most tepid attempts to reform or constrain it. This may be precisely because there isn't an equivalent of Soviet Russia looming in the background - but it doesn't seem too far fetched to feel that modern liberal capitalism's refusal to bend with the prevailing wind is going to contain the seeds of its own downfall.

Of course because something has to give. If people are suffering and the one in power refuses to budge, sooner or later something is going to break lose and is probably that guy's head when the revolution begins.

The fault is with people with great power and no moral compass, the sorts who believe that all goes well when the economic elites get whatever they want.

Capitalism avoided falling to proletarian revolution because the owners and managers recognized the need for workers to have a stake in the system. The Soviet Union was a warning to either create a consumer economy that encompasses the proletariat or to establish fascist terror. There seems to be no middle ground.

Today the increase in consumption is that people now pay more for what they get -- higher rents, higher commute costs, and questionable financial services. Goods and services become raw deals and outright rip-offs.

Part of the reason for retirement at 65 was that at the least in mining and industry, elderly workers were dying in great numbers on the job due to heart attacks and industrial accidents. Someone senile working in a steel mill might easily wander into the path of or into a vat of molten metal.  Maybe that is not so much a danger with someone doing a job as a checker-cashier... but still...

American capitalism has lost its humane virtues.
   

[Fuzzy Bear]

The Red Avatars here amaze me:

You’re either extraordinarily gullible, or a truly horrendous judge of political acumen.

If any good has come from Trump's election, it's that Republicans are no longer, in any way, hiding what sort of awful people they are.

Next time I see the 85 year old Walmart greeter (usually seen leaning on a shopping cart), I’ll be sure to congratulate them.

Isn't this Fox's main demographic that's being condescended to here? The right really doesn't give a f*** about anything, do they? And naturally they won't suffer for this as the 65+ crowd will continue to watch.

"Hannity’s right, Hillary Clinton and the brown horde of wetbacks are the reason I lost my home back in ‘09."

I mean, here I am, an independent voter that's a registered Republican who's voted for Democrats up and down the ballot as recently as 2018, and has not yet said that he's voting for Trump, yet all of the left can't wait to insult me, and insult people like me, as opposed to convincing me that they're right.  And while they will likely not convince me that their worldview is right, they MAY well convince me that voting for a Democratic Presidential nominee over Donald Trump is in my best interest and in the best interest of the country, given that my vote for President is a binary choice between two candidates and not an endorsement of a particular worldview.

[Fuzzy Bear]

I learned over a decade ago that the types of people who populate the Business channels and business websites, the kind of day trader, financial industry types are some of the most horrible people ever.

I recall reading an article from 2009 that claimed the recession was a good thing because it meant he could finally get decent service at the coffee shop since it was an employers market.

As the type of conservative that seeks to understand and prevent the kind of conditions that lead to the rise of people like Lenin, I must say this attitude makes me sick and is part of the reason I have been railing against Investor's Business Daily and Wall Street Journal even back in the days when I was a Romney supporter.

Yeah, it's interesting (and/or concerning) that capitalism, or the business elite, or whatever, used to have the ability to adapt and constrain the most excessive edges of capitalism for the good of its own survival. I mean, the embedded liberal era is the most obvious example of this, where capitalism was able to reform itself, precisely to stave of the Communist thread.

Nowadays though, it seems to have lost its ability to do this, and desparately screams down even the most tepid attempts to reform or constrain it. This may be precisely because there isn't an equivalent of Soviet Russia looming in the background - but it doesn't seem too far fetched to feel that modern liberal capitalism's refusal to bend with the prevailing wind is going to contain the seeds of its own downfall.

Of course because something has to give. If people are suffering and the one in power refuses to budge, sooner or later something is going to break lose and is probably that guy's head when the revolution begins.

The fault is with people with great power and no moral compass, the sorts who believe that all goes well when the economic elites get whatever they want.

Capitalism avoided falling to proletarian revolution because the owners and managers recognized the need for workers to have a stake in the system. The Soviet Union was a warning to either create a consumer economy that encompasses the proletariat or to establish fascist terror. There seems to be no middle ground.

Today the increase in consumption is that people now pay more for what they get -- higher rents, higher commute costs, and questionable financial services. Goods and services become raw deals and outright rip-offs.

Part of the reason for retirement at 65 was that at the least in mining and industry, elderly workers were dying in great numbers on the job due to heart attacks and industrial accidents. Someone senile working in a steel mill might easily wander into the path of or into a vat of molten metal.  Maybe that is not so much a danger with someone doing a job as a checker-cashier... but still...

American capitalism has lost its humane virtues.
   

Very true here.

The Republican Party that built America's postwar suburbs understood this.  THAT Republican Party disappeared when we needed it the most.

[Badger]

The Red Avatars here amaze me:

You’re either extraordinarily gullible, or a truly horrendous judge of political acumen.

If any good has come from Trump's election, it's that Republicans are no longer, in any way, hiding what sort of awful people they are.

Next time I see the 85 year old Walmart greeter (usually seen leaning on a shopping cart), I’ll be sure to congratulate them.

Isn't this Fox's main demographic that's being condescended to here? The right really doesn't give a f*** about anything, do they? And naturally they won't suffer for this as the 65+ crowd will continue to watch.

"Hannity’s right, Hillary Clinton and the brown horde of wetbacks are the reason I lost my home back in ‘09."

I mean, here I am, an independent voter that's a registered Republican who's voted for Democrats up and down the ballot as recently as 2018, and has not yet said that he's voting for Trump, yet all of the left can't wait to insult me, and insult people like me, as opposed to convincing me that they're right.  And while they will likely not convince me that their worldview is right, they MAY well convince me that voting for a Democratic Presidential nominee over Donald Trump is in my best interest and in the best interest of the country, given that my vote for President is a binary choice between two candidates and not an endorsement of a particular worldview.

It's like they say, fuzzy, the only thing worse than a heathen is a heretic. LOL!

I guess the one thing that does really frustrate me most about you, fuzzy, is that you have a heart. Folks like Naso or Mortimer are just Drake's who can never be convinced to be good people, either in the voting booth, or I suspect in any manner shape or form. You can. So when we see you turning into darn near a 3 issue voter on abortion and general political correctness issues like football players kneeling for the anthem, Etc. Customers painfully of all  an obstinate view about immigration, buying into the false dichotomy that the only alternative towards locking children at the dog kennel like this is  literally opening the gates at the border for a free-for-all.

It cuts all the deeper. Take that for what you will. I think it was a backhanded compliment? LOL!

[Hammy]

The Red Avatars here amaze me:

You’re either extraordinarily gullible, or a truly horrendous judge of political acumen.

If any good has come from Trump's election, it's that Republicans are no longer, in any way, hiding what sort of awful people they are.

Next time I see the 85 year old Walmart greeter (usually seen leaning on a shopping cart), I’ll be sure to congratulate them.

Isn't this Fox's main demographic that's being condescended to here? The right really doesn't give a f*** about anything, do they? And naturally they won't suffer for this as the 65+ crowd will continue to watch.

"Hannity’s right, Hillary Clinton and the brown horde of wetbacks are the reason I lost my home back in ‘09."

I mean, here I am, an independent voter that's a registered Republican who's voted for Democrats up and down the ballot as recently as 2018, and has not yet said that he's voting for Trump, yet all of the left can't wait to insult me, and insult people like me, as opposed to convincing me that they're right.  And while they will likely not convince me that their worldview is right, they MAY well convince me that voting for a Democratic Presidential nominee over Donald Trump is in my best interest and in the best interest of the country, given that my vote for President is a binary choice between two candidates and not an endorsement of a particular worldview.

Funny to include me as a red avatar as I'm also one of the few progressives here willing to criticise the Democratic Party for the burning regressive Clinton/90s/corporate-worshipping dumpster fire that it is (and I was a Republican up until 2014 when it was clear the party was beyond any hope)

[pbrower2a]

The fault is with people with great power and no moral compass, the sorts who believe that all goes well when the economic elites get whatever they want.

Capitalism avoided falling to proletarian revolution because the owners and managers recognized the need for workers to have a stake in the system. The Soviet Union was a warning to either create a consumer economy that encompasses the proletariat or to establish fascist terror. There seems to be no middle ground.

Today the increase in consumption is that people now pay more for what they get -- higher rents, higher commute costs, and questionable financial services. Goods and services become raw deals and outright rip-offs.

Part of the reason for retirement at 65 was that at the least in mining and industry, elderly workers were dying in great numbers on the job due to heart attacks and industrial accidents. Someone senile working in a steel mill might easily wander into the path of or into a vat of molten metal.  Maybe that is not so much a danger with someone doing a job as a checker-cashier... but still...

American capitalism has lost its humane virtues.
   

Very true here.

The Republican Party that built America's postwar suburbs understood this.  THAT Republican Party disappeared when we needed it the most.

In the twenty years following WWII, Republicans sponsored living standards for suburban America that we might never be able to replicate again. In the 1950s, tract housing five miles farther out from the core city could be affordable housing. Sixty years later, that tract housing would have to be forty miles beyond the suburbs if the 1950s, which means thath where the economic activity expands, the suburban fringe of one city might grow into another urban area; thus Greater Philadelphia expands into Wilmington and of course San Francisco grows into San Jose. Salt Lake City into Ogden and Provo, or Austin into San Antonio? The only reasons for Detroit not growing into Flint or Toledo are that those three cities are clearly in economic decline, and should Ann Arbor and Detroit become abutting urban areas it will because of Ann Arbor attracting some high-tech industry that allows Ann Arbor to start pinching the vintage-1960s suburban fringe of Detroit.

Just because market realities mandate that people be shoehorned into skyscraper apartments does not mean that those apartment dwellers are the  same sorts of people who could fatalistically accept the misery of the economic circumstances characteristic of dwellers in the dreary flats of the 1920s.  But with the  political leadership of the  current GOP we revert to a Gilded Age in living conditions cue to the economic elites grabbing all the benefit of technological progress while putting the screws to the common man through  monopolistic decisions.

If life was somehow better in the 1950s, at least in the sense of housing space per person, then such reflects population growth since then. In some respects things are greater than they were in the 1950s. Technological gadgets are the least of it. Most people could return to snail-mail for communications, dead-tree editions of books, three or four channels of television, landline phones,  and monaural vinyl LPs if they had to -- and if I had to live with 1950s technologies of entertainment to get the living space per person of the 1950s, then that would be my choice. Of course there are some features of the 1950s that I would not want to see return -- like the Blood Alley highways, tetraethyl lead as a fuel additive that  pollutes human bodies with lead, rigid steering columns that impale drivers in vehicle crashes, the Red Scare, the intolerance of feminism and homosexuality, polio, and the last gasp of Jim Crow practice.  Antifeminism, homophobia, McCarthyism, and above all racism were not the faults of the primitive nature of the tools of entertainment.

If we could be as sophisticated in achieving social equity as we are in developing the sophisticated entertainments that we now have, maybe we could make America great as it has never been before, and not simply wonderful for rapacious elites and miserable for everyone else. I'll sacrifice white privilege for that, thank you.     

[Joe Republic]

I mean, here I am, an independent voter that's a registered Republican who's voted for Democrats up and down the ballot as recently as 2018, and has not yet said that he's voting for Trump, yet all of the left can't wait to insult me, and insult people like me, as opposed to convincing me that they're right.  And while they will likely not convince me that their worldview is right, they MAY well convince me that voting for a Democratic Presidential nominee over Donald Trump is in my best interest and in the best interest of the country, given that my vote for President is a binary choice between two candidates and not an endorsement of a particular worldview.

Blah blah blah... my Zeus, do you ever stop whining?  I can assure you nobody cares about this incessant "I may vote for Trump, but I also MAY NOT either, I guess only time will tell lol!" schtick.

[Fuzzy Bear is] far, far right on immigration, abortion, LGBTQ issues, American nationalism, and Israel.  He’s also too old and stubborn to change those views (not that he’s obligated to do so).  The Democratic Party is a big tent, but there’s no warm welcome for any of those views in it, nor should there be.

Anyway, this is just the Atlas forum, not some Democratic campaign recruitment drive.  I for one won’t exhaust the effort required to recruit one old bigot back onto our side.

Voting against Prick Scott and Ron DipShitnis hardly requires courage.  The fact remains: neanderthal political views do not belong in the Democratic Party, and therefore neither does Fuzzy Bear.

[Slander and/or Libel]

The Red Avatars here amaze me:

You’re either extraordinarily gullible, or a truly horrendous judge of political acumen.

If any good has come from Trump's election, it's that Republicans are no longer, in any way, hiding what sort of awful people they are.

Next time I see the 85 year old Walmart greeter (usually seen leaning on a shopping cart), I’ll be sure to congratulate them.

Isn't this Fox's main demographic that's being condescended to here? The right really doesn't give a f*** about anything, do they? And naturally they won't suffer for this as the 65+ crowd will continue to watch.

"Hannity’s right, Hillary Clinton and the brown horde of wetbacks are the reason I lost my home back in ‘09."

I mean, here I am, an independent voter that's a registered Republican who's voted for Democrats up and down the ballot as recently as 2018, and has not yet said that he's voting for Trump, yet all of the left can't wait to insult me, and insult people like me, as opposed to convincing me that they're right.  And while they will likely not convince me that their worldview is right, they MAY well convince me that voting for a Democratic Presidential nominee over Donald Trump is in my best interest and in the best interest of the country, given that my vote for President is a binary choice between two candidates and not an endorsement of a particular worldview.

Wild that you assume the whole point of a forum with thousands of users should be for people to persuade YOU to vote one way that you're, let's be honest, probably never going to consider voting.

[DavidB.]

Horrible. This is why I fully understand why some Americans are attracted to the ideas of AOC and Bernie. But their blind spot is multiculturalism. Their open borders fantasy will always enable capitalism to foster.

The combination of capitalism and multiculturalism really leads to the worst possible outcome for the general populace, especially those in worse socio-economic positions.

[T'Chenka]

Horrible. This is why I fully understand why some Americans are attracted to the ideas of AOC and Bernie. But their blind spot is multiculturalism. Their open borders fantasy will always enable capitalism to foster.

The combination of capitalism and multiculturalism really leads to the worst possible outcome for the general populace, especially those in worse socio-economic positions.

Are you legitimately trying to claim that multiculturalism has an actual tangible negative effect on national economics and the lower class?

I've seen arguments like this regarding illegal immigration, but multiculturalisn? This is a massive crock of sh__.

[DavidB.]

Horrible. This is why I fully understand why some Americans are attracted to the ideas of AOC and Bernie. But their blind spot is multiculturalism. Their open borders fantasy will always enable capitalism to foster.

The combination of capitalism and multiculturalism really leads to the worst possible outcome for the general populace, especially those in worse socio-economic positions.

Are you legitimately trying to claim that multiculturalism has an actual tangible negative effect on national economics and the lower class?

I've seen arguments like this regarding illegal immigration, but multiculturalisn? This is a massive crock of sh__.

Multiculturalism causes social cohesion to decline and individualism to increase. The result: less willingness to pay into a system that upholds a welfare state. Moreover, mass immigration of working-class people drives down wages (and slows down automation and innovation). The main losers of such policies are the native working classes (of whichever color). Middle-class people lose too, as they benefit from a welfare state and good public facilities (also thinking of education here) too as well as being affected by the decrease of public safety. The only ones who benefit are the literal 1%.

[T'Chenka]

Horrible. This is why I fully understand why some Americans are attracted to the ideas of AOC and Bernie. But their blind spot is multiculturalism. Their open borders fantasy will always enable capitalism to foster.

The combination of capitalism and multiculturalism really leads to the worst possible outcome for the general populace, especially those in worse socio-economic positions.

Are you legitimately trying to claim that multiculturalism has an actual tangible negative effect on national economics and the lower class?

I've seen arguments like this regarding illegal immigration, but multiculturalisn? This is a massive crock of sh__.

Multiculturalism causes social cohesion to decline and individualism to increase. The result: less willingness to pay into a system that upholds a welfare state. Moreover, mass immigration of working-class people drives down wages (and slows down automation and innovation). The main losers of such policies are the native working classes (of whichever color). Middle-class people lose too, as they benefit from a welfare state and good public facilities (also thinking of education here) too as well as being affected by the decrease of public safety. The only ones who benefit are the literal 1%.

Multi-culturalism doesn't necessarily go hand-in-hand with ongoing mass immigration. If Trump completely shut the borders and closed the airports today and stopped allowing foreigners to even vacation here, it would still be a multi-cultural nation going forward.

[Santander]

Multi-culturalism doesn't necessarily go hand-in-hand with ongoing mass immigration. If Trump completely shut the borders and closed the airports today and stopped allowing foreigners to even vacation here, it would still be a multi-cultural nation going forward.

I like Ike.

[DavidB.]

Horrible. This is why I fully understand why some Americans are attracted to the ideas of AOC and Bernie. But their blind spot is multiculturalism. Their open borders fantasy will always enable capitalism to foster.

The combination of capitalism and multiculturalism really leads to the worst possible outcome for the general populace, especially those in worse socio-economic positions.

Are you legitimately trying to claim that multiculturalism has an actual tangible negative effect on national economics and the lower class?

I've seen arguments like this regarding illegal immigration, but multiculturalisn? This is a massive crock of sh__.

Multiculturalism causes social cohesion to decline and individualism to increase. The result: less willingness to pay into a system that upholds a welfare state. Moreover, mass immigration of working-class people drives down wages (and slows down automation and innovation). The main losers of such policies are the native working classes (of whichever color). Middle-class people lose too, as they benefit from a welfare state and good public facilities (also thinking of education here) too as well as being affected by the decrease of public safety. The only ones who benefit are the literal 1%.

Multi-culturalism doesn't necessarily go hand-in-hand with ongoing mass immigration. If Trump completely shut the borders and closed the airports today and stopped allowing foreigners to even vacation here, it would still be a multi-cultural nation going forward.

And even then the U.S. would be very multicultural and, partly because of it, have way lower public support for the type of extensive welfare state that you would see in Western Europe. It's possible to overcome this in a couple of generations if you close the border and use civic nationalism to push for integration (which I think is the right way forward), but even then, the further away immigrants are from American culture, the more difficult it gets - especially because we should increasingly beg the question what it is exactly that immigrants should integrate into: the consensus on this has completely been eroded.

[Statilius the Epicurean]

The Red Avatars here amaze me:

You’re either extraordinarily gullible, or a truly horrendous judge of political acumen.

If any good has come from Trump's election, it's that Republicans are no longer, in any way, hiding what sort of awful people they are.

Next time I see the 85 year old Walmart greeter (usually seen leaning on a shopping cart), I’ll be sure to congratulate them.

Isn't this Fox's main demographic that's being condescended to here? The right really doesn't give a f*** about anything, do they? And naturally they won't suffer for this as the 65+ crowd will continue to watch.

"Hannity’s right, Hillary Clinton and the brown horde of wetbacks are the reason I lost my home back in ‘09."

I mean, here I am, an independent voter that's a registered Republican who's voted for Democrats up and down the ballot as recently as 2018, and has not yet said that he's voting for Trump, yet all of the left can't wait to insult me, and insult people like me, as opposed to convincing me that they're right.  And while they will likely not convince me that their worldview is right, they MAY well convince me that voting for a Democratic Presidential nominee over Donald Trump is in my best interest and in the best interest of the country, given that my vote for President is a binary choice between two candidates and not an endorsement of a particular worldview.

Fuzzy, half of the posts you quoted aren't even directed towards you. If you think attacking Republican elites is an insult to "people like me" then you're beyond saving. Like how the f**k is Joe Republic's post about the 85 year old Wallmart an attack on Trump voters and not a sarcastic highlight of how people shouldn't be working at 85 like this CIO Fox guest says? How is Hammy saying Republican elites like this executive guy are awful people a comment on anything you've done? Have you gone senile?

At this point it looks like you're just trolling for posts by red avatars to get upset about in order to justify in your own mind your support of Trump.

[T'Chenka]

Horrible. This is why I fully understand why some Americans are attracted to the ideas of AOC and Bernie. But their blind spot is multiculturalism. Their open borders fantasy will always enable capitalism to foster.

The combination of capitalism and multiculturalism really leads to the worst possible outcome for the general populace, especially those in worse socio-economic positions.

Are you legitimately trying to claim that multiculturalism has an actual tangible negative effect on national economics and the lower class?

I've seen arguments like this regarding illegal immigration, but multiculturalisn? This is a massive crock of sh__.

Multiculturalism causes social cohesion to decline and individualism to increase. The result: less willingness to pay into a system that upholds a welfare state. Moreover, mass immigration of working-class people drives down wages (and slows down automation and innovation). The main losers of such policies are the native working classes (of whichever color). Middle-class people lose too, as they benefit from a welfare state and good public facilities (also thinking of education here) too as well as being affected by the decrease of public safety. The only ones who benefit are the literal 1%.

Multi-culturalism doesn't necessarily go hand-in-hand with ongoing mass immigration. If Trump completely shut the borders and closed the airports today and stopped allowing foreigners to even vacation here, it would still be a multi-cultural nation going forward.

And even then the U.S. would be very multicultural and, partly because of it, have way lower public support for the type of extensive welfare state that you would see in Western Europe. It's possible to overcome this in a couple of generations if you close the border and use civic nationalism to push for integration (which I think is the right way forward), but even then, the further away immigrants are from American culture, the more difficult it gets - especially because we should increasingly beg the question what it is exactly that immigrants should integrate into: the consensus on this has completely been eroded.

"People are racist therefore they hate welfare that isn't only for whites. However, the LONG-TERM solution is to appease the racists!"

You sound like a clown. I'm sorry.

[DavidB.]

"People are racist therefore they hate welfare that isn't only for whites. However, the LONG-TERM solution is to appease the racists!"

You sound like a clown. I'm sorry.

A strawman, a personal attack and no argument. Pretty weak.