Re: Office of PSOL—Beginning of the Institute of Atlasian Progression

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Whoever knew the right could be this intellectually dishonest? Dumping the people who got you elected once the partnership is no longer convenient for you is sh*tty opportunism at its most transparent —and I know the people in this thread know this because of the public and private tantrums they threw every time DFW (for example) switched parties. Truly hilarious to see circa. 2017 talking points about "the culture in Labor" and "big-tent Federalism" being bandied about again now that the experiment with hard-right purism has ended in abject failure. Back then I would have been offended, but I've since learned not to be surprised by people who will vote to elect anti-semites and bizarro TNF while screeching about civility and pretend their narrative is internally consistent.

I have said nothing in this thread, I wasn't saying last summer.

And the only bizzarro TNF I have seen recently, is in this thread and they aren't on our side.

There is also a difference between switching back and forth several times and switching once.

[PSOL]

And the only bizzarro TNF I have seen recently, is in this thread and they aren't on our side.

Excuse me?

[Pericles]

Despite my disapproval of some of his actions as Governor, this was never a deal breaker for me. This idea of an authoritarian Labor Party is a figment of his imagination. And a Bernie supporter is always going to be a better fit for Labor than the Federalists (honestly we are probably too tilted to the Bernie wing compared to other Dem primary groups, though this is a minor issue). Especially the Federalist Party of 2020 is a terrible party for such a person. WM will find this out in due course. In any case, I am not responsible nor is the rest of the party leadership for the Governor's poor judgement.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

And the only bizzarro TNF I have seen recently, is in this thread and they aren't on our side.

Excuse me?

Parrallel gov't ring a bell? Sounds a lot like when TNF made himself Senator illegally because he didn't like what Snowguy was doing.

[Unconditional Surrender Truman]

And the only bizzarro TNF I have seen recently, is in this thread and they aren't on our side.

Really? I don't think it's a big secret who I was referring to. (Hint: not PSOL.)

The rest of your post is a more succinct summary of what I attempted to say in mine —maybe people will actually read it now!

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

And the only bizzarro TNF I have seen recently, is in this thread and they aren't on our side.

Really? I don't think it's a big secret who I was referring to. (Hint: not PSOL.)

The rest of your post is a more succinct summary of what I attempted to say in mine —maybe people will actually read it now!

I haven't a clue who you are talking about. When I make comparisons to TNF, I typically incorporate more than the last act, having served in the Senate with him for two years. Failure to do so renders most such comparisons weak at best.

[Unconditional Surrender Truman]

And the only bizzarro TNF I have seen recently, is in this thread and they aren't on our side.

Really? I don't think it's a big secret who I was referring to. (Hint: not PSOL.)

The rest of your post is a more succinct summary of what I attempted to say in mine —maybe people will actually read it now!

I haven't a clue who you are talking about. When I make comparisons to TNF, I typically incorporate more than the last act, having served in the Senate with him for two years. Failure to do so renders most such comparisons weak at best.

Pretty sure you just made a comparison based entirely on his last act, but okay. If you really can't think of anyone on your side who rivals the toxicity, ideological rigidity, and disdain for all those outside their closed circle of associates that was TNF's modus operandi, I can't help you.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

And the only bizzarro TNF I have seen recently, is in this thread and they aren't on our side.

Really? I don't think it's a big secret who I was referring to. (Hint: not PSOL.)

The rest of your post is a more succinct summary of what I attempted to say in mine —maybe people will actually read it now!

I haven't a clue who you are talking about. When I make comparisons to TNF, I typically incorporate more than the last act, having served in the Senate with him for two years. Failure to do so renders most such comparisons weak at best.

Pretty sure you just made a comparison based entirely on his last act, but okay. If you really can't think of anyone on your side who rivals the toxicity, ideological rigidity, and disdain for all those outside their closed circle of associates that was TNF's modus operandi, I can't help you.

Actually I didn't. PSOL shares similar left-populism and other attributes that make the comparison more wholly balanced. He has also called for the complete elimination of the right just like TNF did, when famously danced on the grave of the Federalist party in 2015 while Windjammer and others new better for the sake of the Labor Party.

If you mean Fhtagn, I wouldn't compare her to TNF at all. I would however compare her to DWTL who would share the mentioned attributes without all the complicating ones that don't match, for instance she has never tried to illegally install an extra constitutional officer like TNF did and PSOL has now called for, not to mention being on opposite sides ideologically. DWTL on the other hand led a southern secession effort, he constantly punched down, was always toxic to the likes of the HappyWarrior, Afleitch, and Vern and he catered to an ever shrinking circle.

Granted you weren't here for this time period, so I cannot help you from making terribly imperfect comparisons.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Also, the votes that Fhtagn gets from Feds, are Feds that are her personal vote. They were not "sent" to her. She had them before she left and she has "kept" them by and large as a personal non-ACP vote.

Whenever we discuss house strategy in the Feds, we presume and plan around them continuing to vote in such fashion. And believe me, this has been a sore spot, but there is nothing I can do about it.

But feds tend to not listen

Feds only listen to select people, and when that said person doesn't contact them, they don't vote.

You will never understand just how difficult it is over here.

[Unconditional Surrender Truman]

I don't want to turn this thread into an argument about which villains of history Fhtagn most resembles, but I will point out that I addressed my post to "the right," not you personally, Yankee. Unless you are every right-wing poster and this whole game is your elaborate attempt to find someone who will read your posts. (I should have thought of that!)

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I don't want to turn this thread into an argument about which villains of history Fhtagn most resembles, but I will point out that I addressed my post to "the right," not you personally, Yankee. Unless you are every right-wing poster and this whole game is your elaborate attempt to find someone who will read your posts. (I should have thought of that!)

No, but you are my sock and this thread is my attempt to rival Hamilton and JSoujourner.

[Unconditional Surrender Truman]

I don't want to turn this thread into an argument about which villains of history Fhtagn most resembles, but I will point out that I addressed my post to "the right," not you personally, Yankee. Unless you are every right-wing poster and this whole game is your elaborate attempt to find someone who will read your posts. (I should have thought of that!)

No, but you are my sock and this thread is my attempt to rival Hamilton and JSoujourner.

Damm*t, I you gave it away!

[fhtagn]

I don't want to turn this thread into an argument about which villains of history Fhtagn most resembles, but I will point out that I addressed my post to "the right," not you personally, Yankee. Unless you are every right-wing poster and this whole game is your elaborate attempt to find someone who will read your posts. (I should have thought of that!)

[Unconditional Surrender Truman]

More reruns, I see! FedTV really went downhill after Steve Carell left the show.

[BP🌹]

And the only bizzarro TNF I have seen recently, is in this thread and they aren't on our side.

Excuse me?

Take it as a compliment!

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

And the only bizzarro TNF I have seen recently, is in this thread and they aren't on our side.

Excuse me?

Take it as a compliment!

The ironic thing is, for a long time, TNF was a target for admiration even among some center-left types. Libertarians also liked him because like MB today, he was a devout social libertarian.

He was also pro-gun and VERY pro explosives:

By a vote of 6-3 this amendment has passed and is sent to the regions for ratification:

Aye: Bore, Polnut, JCL, Windjammer, Bacon King, Cranberry

Nay: Yankee, TNF, Deus

[PSOL]

I suppose I should take it as a compliment. Also, other then the comments made from all this brouhaha, nothing else I have done has been extreme tbh.

[AustralianSwingVoter]

Now that I have more background on why WM left, I can safely say that I do understand why he did what he did. Labor does have a more centralized identity based on the loyalty and work of several powerbrokers who don’t like disloyalty or even unpredictable styles of play. I can say from experience that the Labor bureaucracy and I have gone toe-to-toe at numerous occasions. I was censured initially after leaving the government in Lincoln after the Establishment^TM would let a member of the Federalists into laborcord then the new admitted labor member SNJC. So too was resistance present in letting in bp1202, or when I was denied a house seat over the question of my loyalty by the party heads. The party is at times unfair and slow, but the pendulum swings toward justice. I got SNJC and bp1202 eventually in, I came back stronger then ever by becoming an ideologue in my time in the Fremont parliament, where I could do mostly whatever due to the party needing politicians. I even am apart of the councils of the new president, the same who along with YE denied me a house seat, and am expected to be elected to the house in April no matter what.

Let’s compare this record to what happens in the Right. Lakigigar was screwed over numerous times by the Feds even though he was an opposition candidate and a Fed member. Bagel23’s Faustian pact with the Feds was not enough to guarantee him a house seat. On the right; there are goldbugs, racists, and tried criminals in office or members. This is not a stable, trustworthy party worth your time or allegiance to my guy. Labor has its problems, but the solution is to point it out and work to fix them, as I have done and arguably have won in the long run. It is not to go to the right where you frankly don’t belong. Come home West Midlander, I and everyone else will forgive you and treat you no different the sooner you come home. You don’t even need to go back to being in labor, an Indy registration would be enough. You have so much power at your disposal in the South, it’s time to make the right decision.

You confuse inability/incompetence for intentionally screwing someone over.

It is easy to say "Labor did this, this and this" while Feds fail to do this, that and the other thing, but you forget the underlying backdrop that Labor controls a majority of the votes in this game either directly or indirectly and that means they have the power to deliver results favorable to their desired outcome in most every circumstance.

We don't have the same luxuries to deliver votes. When Laki ran for House, several of us voted for him until we ran out of votes. Because duh, we are the minority. If we had the votes to win a majority, he would be in the House and the controlling vote on legislation. When Bagel ran for CoD as part of a slate, we did our best to GOTV for him until we ran out of votes because three of the "recruitment wave" people didn't show up. If Bagel had wanted to run for House, he would be on the slate now. Perhaps you might have missed a certain thread begging people to run for office?

Labor is great at the spoils system because they have reduced the game to merely marching out the soldiers and have that down to a well oiled machine, meaning they don't have to worry about 3 new people not showing up, or someone going offline randomly just before the election only to come back on Monday and say "My bad!". For them they can substitute, we need every vote.

You will never understand what it is like over here.

Just quoting because I can't recommend it twice. This fantastically sums up Labor's inability to understand the difference between them and the Federalists.

[PSOL]

Now that I have more background on why WM left, I can safely say that I do understand why he did what he did. Labor does have a more centralized identity based on the loyalty and work of several powerbrokers who don’t like disloyalty or even unpredictable styles of play. I can say from experience that the Labor bureaucracy and I have gone toe-to-toe at numerous occasions. I was censured initially after leaving the government in Lincoln after the Establishment^TM would let a member of the Federalists into laborcord then the new admitted labor member SNJC. So too was resistance present in letting in bp1202, or when I was denied a house seat over the question of my loyalty by the party heads. The party is at times unfair and slow, but the pendulum swings toward justice. I got SNJC and bp1202 eventually in, I came back stronger then ever by becoming an ideologue in my time in the Fremont parliament, where I could do mostly whatever due to the party needing politicians. I even am apart of the councils of the new president, the same who along with YE denied me a house seat, and am expected to be elected to the house in April no matter what.

Let’s compare this record to what happens in the Right. Lakigigar was screwed over numerous times by the Feds even though he was an opposition candidate and a Fed member. Bagel23’s Faustian pact with the Feds was not enough to guarantee him a house seat. On the right; there are goldbugs, racists, and tried criminals in office or members. This is not a stable, trustworthy party worth your time or allegiance to my guy. Labor has its problems, but the solution is to point it out and work to fix them, as I have done and arguably have won in the long run. It is not to go to the right where you frankly don’t belong. Come home West Midlander, I and everyone else will forgive you and treat you no different the sooner you come home. You don’t even need to go back to being in labor, an Indy registration would be enough. You have so much power at your disposal in the South, it’s time to make the right decision.

You confuse inability/incompetence for intentionally screwing someone over.

It is easy to say "Labor did this, this and this" while Feds fail to do this, that and the other thing, but you forget the underlying backdrop that Labor controls a majority of the votes in this game either directly or indirectly and that means they have the power to deliver results favorable to their desired outcome in most every circumstance.

We don't have the same luxuries to deliver votes. When Laki ran for House, several of us voted for him until we ran out of votes. Because duh, we are the minority. If we had the votes to win a majority, he would be in the House and the controlling vote on legislation. When Bagel ran for CoD as part of a slate, we did our best to GOTV for him until we ran out of votes because three of the "recruitment wave" people didn't show up. If Bagel had wanted to run for House, he would be on the slate now. Perhaps you might have missed a certain thread begging people to run for office?

Labor is great at the spoils system because they have reduced the game to merely marching out the soldiers and have that down to a well oiled machine, meaning they don't have to worry about 3 new people not showing up, or someone going offline randomly just before the election only to come back on Monday and say "My bad!". For them they can substitute, we need every vote.

You will never understand what it is like over here.

Just quoting because I can't recommend it twice. This fantastically sums up Labor's inability to understand the difference between them and the Federalists.

Then that’s on you and others for not creating an environment that allows you to attract and maintain voters. Why is it possible for us to hold the likes of Pyro, Peebs, SNJC, Jimmy, Wulfric, Pericles, among others in one party with minimal problems while no viable right leaning or centrist coalition of parties are able to form?

[AustralianSwingVoter]

Now that I have more background on why WM left, I can safely say that I do understand why he did what he did. Labor does have a more centralized identity based on the loyalty and work of several powerbrokers who don’t like disloyalty or even unpredictable styles of play. I can say from experience that the Labor bureaucracy and I have gone toe-to-toe at numerous occasions. I was censured initially after leaving the government in Lincoln after the Establishment^TM would let a member of the Federalists into laborcord then the new admitted labor member SNJC. So too was resistance present in letting in bp1202, or when I was denied a house seat over the question of my loyalty by the party heads. The party is at times unfair and slow, but the pendulum swings toward justice. I got SNJC and bp1202 eventually in, I came back stronger then ever by becoming an ideologue in my time in the Fremont parliament, where I could do mostly whatever due to the party needing politicians. I even am apart of the councils of the new president, the same who along with YE denied me a house seat, and am expected to be elected to the house in April no matter what.

Let’s compare this record to what happens in the Right. Lakigigar was screwed over numerous times by the Feds even though he was an opposition candidate and a Fed member. Bagel23’s Faustian pact with the Feds was not enough to guarantee him a house seat. On the right; there are goldbugs, racists, and tried criminals in office or members. This is not a stable, trustworthy party worth your time or allegiance to my guy. Labor has its problems, but the solution is to point it out and work to fix them, as I have done and arguably have won in the long run. It is not to go to the right where you frankly don’t belong. Come home West Midlander, I and everyone else will forgive you and treat you no different the sooner you come home. You don’t even need to go back to being in labor, an Indy registration would be enough. You have so much power at your disposal in the South, it’s time to make the right decision.

You confuse inability/incompetence for intentionally screwing someone over.

It is easy to say "Labor did this, this and this" while Feds fail to do this, that and the other thing, but you forget the underlying backdrop that Labor controls a majority of the votes in this game either directly or indirectly and that means they have the power to deliver results favorable to their desired outcome in most every circumstance.

We don't have the same luxuries to deliver votes. When Laki ran for House, several of us voted for him until we ran out of votes. Because duh, we are the minority. If we had the votes to win a majority, he would be in the House and the controlling vote on legislation. When Bagel ran for CoD as part of a slate, we did our best to GOTV for him until we ran out of votes because three of the "recruitment wave" people didn't show up. If Bagel had wanted to run for House, he would be on the slate now. Perhaps you might have missed a certain thread begging people to run for office?

Labor is great at the spoils system because they have reduced the game to merely marching out the soldiers and have that down to a well oiled machine, meaning they don't have to worry about 3 new people not showing up, or someone going offline randomly just before the election only to come back on Monday and say "My bad!". For them they can substitute, we need every vote.

You will never understand what it is like over here.

Just quoting because I can't recommend it twice. This fantastically sums up Labor's inability to understand the difference between them and the Federalists.

Then that’s on you and others for not creating an environment that allows you to attract and maintain voters. Why is it possible for us to hold the likes of Pyro, Peebs, SNJC, Jimmy, Wulfric, Pericles, among others in one party with minimal problems while no viable right leaning or centrist coalition of parties are able to form?

Well they're all fundamentally left-wing. And in the same way the Federalist/ACP manages to hold together all the players who are fundamentally right-wing.

[Former President tack50]

I have wanted to write on this thread for a while, but due to several things getting in the way I have not been able to. I guess this time is as good as any. My 2 cents on the several points that have been made:

WM would not have won without Labor support. This is a fact. WM running in a 3 way race would have been destroyed by Muaddib and whichever replacement Labor ran. He would be lucky if he even got 5 votes. If running as the candidate of the right maybe he would have won, but I doubt he would have been nominated in the first place. He may still be nominated in April, but he is also the incumbent now.

I can easily point out to my own personal experience. I ran a campaign without Labor support once (January 2019 CoD). I got demolished and only got my own vote. You can't get anywhere without party support. Just look at the recent Lincoln governor race for another example.

West Midlander has betrayed his own voters. He was elected because he was the Labor Party candidate, pure and simple. In my opinion, a recall would be in order to try to see if voters want to remove him from office, though given the extremely high thresholds to meet I do not think it should be pursued.

I do not support any efforts to extralegally remove WM. I mean, I do support them in meme fashion (who does not like a good coup! ). But if it was really something serious I would oppose them.

In terms of views, either WM is not a good fit for the Federalist Party, or he is having changes faster than anyone we have seen before. Sorry but that is just a fact. You do not go from being "to the left of Adam Griffin" to moderate hero in just 2 months.

He might argue that it is the "Labor Party culture" or whatever, but let's be real, no one was pushing WM outside the party. You can easily be a Laborite and a moderate. You do not need to toe the party line 100% of the time in order to be a Laborite. I myself have defected on plenty of votes in Congress and the Lincoln Council and I have voted once for the right presidentially. Yet here I am.

[Terry the Fat Shark]

Czy to oznacza, że ​​Westmidlander zostanie nakarmiony prezydentem w październiku?

[Adam Griffin]

Also, the votes that Fhtagn gets from Feds, are Feds that are her personal vote. They were not "sent" to her. She had them before she left and she has "kept" them by and large as a personal non-ACP vote.

Yes, "the right" is just incompetent with respect to standing up to or asserting control over select individuals within its ranks. Literally half of the instances in which the right has lost the House post-reset has been because fhtagn hoards first preferences like a fatty hoards carbs in their belly. Truly shameful, disorganized and weak-willed behavior is largely to blame for your current congressional predicament. Everybody on the left has a good laugh in every election when she gets like 20 first preferences while every other candidate has like 4 or 5.

The ironic thing is, for a long time, TNF was a target for admiration even among some center-left types. Libertarians also liked him because like MB today, he was a devout social libertarian.

He was also pro-gun and VERY pro explosives:

By a vote of 6-3 this amendment has passed and is sent to the regions for ratification:

Aye: Bore, Polnut, JCL, Windjammer, Bacon King, Cranberry

Nay: Yankee, TNF, Deus

Are you really going to point out that vote: the one where jambles tricked JCL into voting for it when he really wanted to vote against it?

[Adam Griffin]

WM would not have won without Labor support.

Haven't you heard!?! Winning by 1 vote in an election ackschually gives you more of a mandate to do whatever than winning by multiple votes.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Also, the votes that Fhtagn gets from Feds, are Feds that are her personal vote. They were not "sent" to her. She had them before she left and she has "kept" them by and large as a personal non-ACP vote.

Yes, "the right" is just incompetent with respect to standing up to or asserting control over select individuals within its ranks. Literally half of the instances in which the right has lost the House post-reset has been because fhtagn hoards first preferences like a fatty hoards carbs in their belly. Truly shameful, disorganized and weak-willed behavior is largely to blame for your current congressional predicament. Everybody on the left has a good laugh in every election when she gets like 20 first preferences while every other candidate has like 4 or 5.

The ironic thing is, for a long time, TNF was a target for admiration even among some center-left types. Libertarians also liked him because like MB today, he was a devout social libertarian.

He was also pro-gun and VERY pro explosives:

By a vote of 6-3 this amendment has passed and is sent to the regions for ratification:

Aye: Bore, Polnut, JCL, Windjammer, Bacon King, Cranberry

Nay: Yankee, TNF, Deus

Are you really going to point out that vote: the one where jambles tricked JCL into voting for it when he really wanted to vote against it?

Ok bgwah. He used to throw that around.

You guys have won pv for House consistently most Everytime we lost house. Distribution is meaningless when you lose the pv, you ain't winning a majority. 

I have told you a million times they don't want to be controlled like that. Conservatives aren't liberals or leftists they will tell you to f off and leave.