Re: Office of PSOL—Beginning of the Institute of Atlasian Progression

[Esteemed Jimmy]

Let's get real-people voted for West_Midlander because he was the Labor/Peace candidate and MB and I asked them to. So yeah, it is a violation of the trust voters placed in him. Whether it is a 'stain on democracy' is semantics, you can quibble with language but I do think it is distasteful and wrong for office-holders to switch parties. I think he should now follow the Vern precedent and resign, and hopefully the South has special gubernatorial elections so the voters can decide for themselves whether they want a Federalist or Labor Governor.

Are you still pretending you have influence over voters?

Let's be honest fhtagn. Westmidlander was elected governor because Pericles and MB campaigned for him.

He was also elected governor because he voted for himself in a 35 -34 race .

I don't get this logic. If WestMidlander was a Fed on the ballot, almost all, if not all all his 34 other votes would have gone to someone else in the first place.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

When Vern joined the Peace Party, I disagreed with his decision to resign and hold a special election for the simple fact that people elected him and trusted his judgment including his judgment to change registration, especially since neither his views nor his person changed. No one took over his account.

Westy used his judgment in this case and if voters disagree with his judgement they can vote him out in April, just like if they disagree with any "political" decision that any official makes the proper recourse is to run in and seek to win the next election.

The same position I took when someone left my party, as when someone joined it while holding high profile regional office.

An officeholder using his judgment in a way you disagree doesn't warrant radical violence, extremism or calls on the Federal gov't to engage in illegal and extra-constitutional actions to satisfy the demands of said radical extremism. And credit where credit is due, I don't think Pericles or Peanut is going to be taking the flight to Havana over this. They respect their jobs too much for that.

[Pericles]

That's an awfully naive attitude to have Yankee, the fact of the matter is both Vern and West_Midlander got the votes they got because of which party they were in. A majority of the South wanted a Labor Governor and their will has been overturned-it doesn't matter how close the election was that is the essence of it. Indeed, Vern's special election proves that only a few people voted for against him based on his own judgement and personality -most voted for or against his party 

[fhtagn]

That's an awfully naive attitude to have Yankee, the fact of the matter is both Vern and West_Midlander got the votes they got because of which party they were in. A majority of the South wanted a Labor Governor and their will has been overturned-it doesn't matter how close the election was that is the essence of it. Indeed, Vern's special election proves that only a few people voted for against him based on his own judgement and personality -most voted for or against his party 

Your argument would be more meaningful if Westy had won by more than 1 vote.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

That's an awfully naive attitude to have Yankee, the fact of the matter is both Vern and West_Midlander got the votes they got because of which party they were in. A majority of the South wanted a Labor Governor and their will has been overturned-it doesn't matter how close the election was that is the essence of it. Indeed, Vern's special election proves that only a few people voted for against him based on his own judgement and personality -most voted for or against his party 

What right do you have to call me naive? I have a right my damn opinion sir!

I am generally not fond of resignations in general unless dictated by some personal issue that takes you off the forum and I don't think they should be used in this fashion. We have regular elections for a reason and like it or not we elect people for a set term in office, they should serve that term unless their unavailable or unable to discharge their duties.

How the votes played out in that special election doesn't alter my general opinion on resignations, nor my opinion on how the appropriate way to handle this is.

It certainly doesn't justify a 2015 redux like some are calling for and I will be damned before I let someone puts this game through that hell again left, right or damned center. I set that last summer when it was the right and I will say it again now when it is the left.

Moderation in the pursuit of justice is certainly no virtue, but extremism is always a vice and always a danger to liberty.

[Leinad]

If not through the current legal mechanisms can we not succeed at doing so, I suggest Labor live up to its heritage and form a parallel provisional government in the interim of this debacle.

This is a shockingly bad idea and neither myself nor I think anyone in Peace or Labor leadership (correct me if I'm wrong, please!) would ever seriously entertain such a ridiculous idea. PSOL bringing it up has conveniently allowed the discussion to be "it was okay for him to switch parties like that" vs. "PROVISIONAL GOVERNMENT!!!!!!" which makes "it was okay" look like a very good opinion to have. (edit: not saying PSOL meant to do that, just keep in mind that when you make multiple arguments if one is dumb 100% of responses will be about that )

But--and this is something everyone should be able to see my perspective on even if you don't admit it in this context--running under the banner of one party and then switching allegiances halfway through is ridiculous and I would say should probably be followed up by a new election. Keep in mind that had he not been perceived by me as an eager and like-minded option for Governor I would've either ran again myself (ugh) or tried to get another qualified candidate to run instead. From my perspective, in all honesty, I have to say I kinda feel screwed over in this. But hey, no one will listen to the tiny violin concert of the only person--maybe ever by the time it's all said and done--who won a Southern Gubernatorial election by double-digits as a left winger. C'este la vie!

[windjammer]

The people of the south chose a labor governor for 4 months. WM is betraying the South by not resigning and calling for a soecial election.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

But hey, no one will listen to the tiny violin concert of the only person--maybe ever by the time it's all said and done--who won a Southern Gubernatorial election by double-digits as a left winger. C'este la vie!

Even if you are (and you aren't), why does that matter? If we are to buy the arguments you guys are peddling, those weren't votes for you, those were votes for your party label marched out to do the bidding of their masters.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

But--and this is something everyone should be able to see my perspective on even if you don't admit it in this context--running under the banner of one party and then switching allegiances halfway through is ridiculous and I would say should probably be followed up by a new election.

Can you help me, I am having trouble finding the links to the special elections that occurred after these Senator party changes?

Adam Griffin
Labor
Michigan

Happy Labor Day!

Canis
Labor
California

Happy labor day!

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

WM is betraying the South by not resigning and calling for a soecial election.

No that is what he would be doing by resigning absent a compelling impediment to performing his duties.

He is betraying Pericles and MB, and that is what it comes down to these days. This is no longer Atlasia, this is the Godfather and we all no what happens if you betray the Don. This standard never existed before. Never. It wasn't applied from Winston Disraeli to Adam/Canis. But because Vern decided to go one route, everyone else is a horrible person for taking a different interpretation of their duty and their oath relative to their party?

To be honest windjammer, we have gone too far down the road of your's, Adams and since 2018 Leinad's vision of partisanship uber alles. Yes too much centrism has harmed this game, but at the same time lopsided partisanship has as well. The progenitor of this thread has openly called for the right's elimination from the game on discord, how is that not the same as one big centrist party dominating everything? But then again, you guys never have been good at seeing anyone else's perspective.

[Adam Griffin]

WM is betraying the South by not resigning and calling for a soecial election.

No that is what he would be doing by resigning absent a compelling impediment to performing his duties.

He is betraying Pericles and MB, and that is what it comes down to these days. This is no longer Atlasia, this is the Godfather and we all no what happens if you betray the Don. This standard never existed before. Never. It wasn't applied from Winston Disraeli to Adam/Canis. But because Vern decided to go one route, everyone else is a horrible person for taking a different interpretation of their duty and their oath relative to their party?

To be honest windjammer, we have gone too far down the road of your's, Adams and since 2018 Leinad's vision of partisanship uber alles. Yes too much centrism has harmed this game, but at the same time lopsided partisanship has as well. The progenitor of this thread has openly called for the right's elimination from the game on discord, how is that not the same as one big centrist party dominating everything? But then again, you guys never have been good at seeing anyone else's perspective.

Translation: "we really suck at this game unless we're poaching left-wingers"

[Adam Griffin]

Also, I think you know you're being quite disingenuous with examples such as Canis and I. We switched parties because the existing party we were in was dying, but both parties were still a representation of what the voters who elected us chose broadly speaking (and also representations of our own values).

Choosing to go from one party and ideological hemisphere to the other without any seismic shifts in the political landscape reeks of opportunism, irrationality and betrayal - and voters are going to be a lot louder about that than they would a intra-hemispheric shift in affiliation alone. That's just a reality. As the most recent example, Vern did ultimately stand down and face the public under his new banner, winning back his seat on "fair" terms.

[West_Midlander]

First:

I am not consenting to either charge, however on "opportunism" and "irrationality":

Aren't the two mutually exclusive? If you are implying opportunism as a modus-operandi, then that at least throws irrationality out the window. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Second:

The opportunism charge is bunk because the Southern Governor's race was only won by one vote and the race before that one was "won...by double-digits as a left winger" as Leinad put it.

Third (Betrayal):

When the voters of this region elected me, they knew I was pro-life and that I was staunchly pro-gun. I had removed the Paygo repeal from the legislation introduction thread and emphasized my support for soft influence of private enterprise as opposed to hard controls/legislation (in the gubernatorial debate). My support for the encouragement of private enterprise to action, as opposed to punitive measures, was demonstrated in the previous session in the form of my Southern Environmental Act. My positions have not changed. As ASV said, I was a moderate Laborite Governor and am now a moderate Federalist Governor.

Both parties are big tents so I would be content to be in either, ideologically. The main reason why I left was the culture of absolute adherence to the party line, in endorsements, appointments, etc.

That can be demonstrated as a contrast to the Federalists in that when I left the Federalists in 2017 to become an Independent, I was a Delegate having been elected in that summer at the bottom of the Federalist slate. My leaving the party, then, was due to a problem I do not have now: my ideological gap with the party. In 2017, I had a political matrix score of more than -7 on one scale and more than -6 on the other (similar to Adam's current score). I have slowly come to the center over the past two years.

For my former partisans, unfortunately, party id makes up so much (possibly the majority) when compared to my personhood and my policy positions. I am not talking about the voters of Labor as the concern expressed has insofar only been that of officeholders and not of voters.

When I left the Federalists for Independent status previously, there was not a backlash, that I can remember. The unfortunate culture problem in Labor that I alluded to is prevalent in my former partisans calling for my resignation due to my decision to change my party registration, as opposed to how my leaving was handled in the Federalists in 2017.

I really did not want to get into my reasons for leaving Labor, out of respect for my former partisans, but I felt it necessary to say these things because the same attacks keep coming up.

Additionally, my leaving Labor was not planned: I did not decide to leave the party until the day I did. Governing as a moderate does not necessitate that one is about to leave a party and if the party was more welcoming to mavericks/moderates I would very probably be there, still.

[Adam Griffin]

First:

I am not consenting to either charge, however on "opportunism" and "irrationality":

Aren't the two mutually exclusive? If you are implying opportunism as a modus-operandi, then that at least throws irrationality out the window. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Plenty of people have done what they thought was right for their careers (i.e. opportunism), only to dramatically fail at understanding how this game and the two-party system generally works (i.e. irrationality). See Lakigigar for a more recent example of what happens when people think they can get a leg up while making terrible decisions politically. Ultimately and if the conservative movement has a chance to replace you with somebody who more accurately embodies their values, they will. This has always applied and always will.

Third (Betrayal):

When the voters of this region elected me, they knew I was pro-life and that I was staunchly pro-gun.

Do they also know that you're to the left of me as of a few months ago and thought I didn't go far enough on LGBT issues?

You have my support. Though I am a bit to the left of the ticket on economic issues my main concern is no mention of LGBT rights, especially trans rights, I think this can be easily remedied with an edit though.

Anyway, the rest isn't really worth a response. Classic "how dare the party/movement that got me elected expect me to be nominally loyal" and what have you that has always been present in any iteration of the game with strong and organized political movements. I've seen dozens of people make rash decisions because other people were nice to them and persuaded them to do so, only for those consequences to unveil themselves over time and for those individuals to justify their impulsive behavior after the fact with a series of conflicting statements (just last night, you were telling some that Peebs running was perceived as a "primary" against you, and that motivated you to do this). This doesn't strike me as any particularly unique circumstance in the grander scheme of Atlasia.

Enjoy the Federalist Party: I truly mean that, because it is your final home where any political clout can be extracted for yourself.

[Unconditional Surrender Truman]

Whoever knew the right could be this intellectually dishonest? Dumping the people who got you elected once the partnership is no longer convenient for you is sh*tty opportunism at its most transparent —and I know the people in this thread know this because of the public and private tantrums they threw every time DFW (for example) switched parties. Truly hilarious to see circa. 2017 talking points about "the culture in Labor" and "big-tent Federalism" being bandied about again now that the experiment with hard-right purism has ended in abject failure. Back then I would have been offended, but I've since learned not to be surprised by people who will vote to elect anti-semites and bizarro TNF while screeching about civility and pretend their narrative is internally consistent.

[windjammer]

WM is betraying the South by not resigning and calling for a soecial election.

No that is what he would be doing by resigning absent a compelling impediment to performing his duties.

He is betraying Pericles and MB, and that is what it comes down to these days. This is no longer Atlasia, this is the Godfather and we all no what happens if you betray the Don. This standard never existed before. Never. It wasn't applied from Winston Disraeli to Adam/Canis. But because Vern decided to go one route, everyone else is a horrible person for taking a different interpretation of their duty and their oath relative to their party?

To be honest windjammer, we have gone too far down the road of your's, Adams and since 2018 Leinad's vision of partisanship uber alles. Yes too much centrism has harmed this game, but at the same time lopsided partisanship has as well. The progenitor of this thread has openly called for the right's elimination from the game on discord, how is that not the same as one big centrist party dominating everything? But then again, you guys never have been good at seeing anyone else's perspective.

Yankee,
How can you not prefer this era of hyperpolarization than what Atlasia used to be. Remember TPP, this garbage big tent party that was going to destroy this game: so many crual personal attacks made against many players led by a psychopath. We were among the first victims and targets of these degenerates and I'm glad this era of "not partisanship" is gone.

I prefer much more this period where actually, people from fghtagn to MB and PSOL actually stand for something.


Yes, I think what WestMildlander did is extremely bad. He betrayed his friends because some guys were Nice to him on discord. I have done many dirty things but I have always been loyal. When Labor helps you to get elected to an important office like Southern Governor it is expected from you to be loyal to the party and I don't see that as controversial.

But anyway, personally I have always known that WestMildlander was going to betray us. Heavy influencable, history of backstabbing, a tendancy of changing his political views all the time to look edgy, that was going to happen.

But I understand why MB is being more pissed about this because WM was his friend and he invested a lot in helping him be elected to then see this same friend doing everything he can to destroy him politically without any guilt.

[fhtagn]

If not through the current legal mechanisms can we not succeed at doing so, I suggest Labor live up to its heritage and form a parallel provisional government in the interim of this debacle.

This is a shockingly bad idea and neither myself nor I think anyone in Peace or Labor leadership (correct me if I'm wrong, please!) would ever seriously entertain such a ridiculous idea. PSOL bringing it up has conveniently allowed the discussion to be "it was okay for him to switch parties like that" vs. "PROVISIONAL GOVERNMENT!!!!!!" which makes "it was okay" look like a very good opinion to have. (edit: not saying PSOL meant to do that, just keep in mind that when you make multiple arguments if one is dumb 100% of responses will be about that )

But--and this is something everyone should be able to see my perspective on even if you don't admit it in this context--running under the banner of one party and then switching allegiances halfway through is ridiculous and I would say should probably be followed up by a new election. Keep in mind that had he not been perceived by me as an eager and like-minded option for Governor I would've either ran again myself (ugh) or tried to get another qualified candidate to run instead. From my perspective, in all honesty, I have to say I kinda feel screwed over in this. But hey, no one will listen to the tiny violin concert of the only person--maybe ever by the time it's all said and done--who won a Southern Gubernatorial election by double-digits as a left winger. C'este la vie!

You had no issues with party switching in 2017. Sit down, Leinad.

[PSOL]

Now that I have more background on why WM left, I can safely say that I do understand why he did what he did. Labor does have a more centralized identity based on the loyalty and work of several powerbrokers who don’t like disloyalty or even unpredictable styles of play. I can say from experience that the Labor bureaucracy and I have gone toe-to-toe at numerous occasions. I was censured initially after leaving the government in Lincoln after the Establishment^TM would let a member of the Federalists into laborcord then the new admitted labor member SNJC. So too was resistance present in letting in bp1202, or when I was denied a house seat over the question of my loyalty by the party heads. The party is at times unfair and slow, but the pendulum swings toward justice. I got SNJC and bp1202 eventually in, I came back stronger then ever by becoming an ideologue in my time in the Fremont parliament, where I could do mostly whatever due to the party needing politicians. I even am apart of the councils of the new president, the same who along with YE denied me a house seat, and am expected to be elected to the house in April no matter what.

Let’s compare this record to what happens in the Right. Lakigigar was screwed over numerous times by the Feds even though he was an opposition candidate and a Fed member. Bagel23’s Faustian pact with the Feds was not enough to guarantee him a house seat. On the right; there are goldbugs, racists, and tried criminals in office or members. This is not a stable, trustworthy party worth your time or allegiance to my guy. Labor has its problems, but the solution is to point it out and work to fix them, as I have done and arguably have won in the long run. It is not to go to the right where you frankly don’t belong. Come home West Midlander, I and everyone else will forgive you and treat you no different the sooner you come home. You don’t even need to go back to being in labor, an Indy registration would be enough. You have so much power at your disposal in the South, it’s time to make the right decision.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

WM is betraying the South by not resigning and calling for a soecial election.

No that is what he would be doing by resigning absent a compelling impediment to performing his duties.

He is betraying Pericles and MB, and that is what it comes down to these days. This is no longer Atlasia, this is the Godfather and we all no what happens if you betray the Don. This standard never existed before. Never. It wasn't applied from Winston Disraeli to Adam/Canis. But because Vern decided to go one route, everyone else is a horrible person for taking a different interpretation of their duty and their oath relative to their party?

To be honest windjammer, we have gone too far down the road of your's, Adams and since 2018 Leinad's vision of partisanship uber alles. Yes too much centrism has harmed this game, but at the same time lopsided partisanship has as well. The progenitor of this thread has openly called for the right's elimination from the game on discord, how is that not the same as one big centrist party dominating everything? But then again, you guys never have been good at seeing anyone else's perspective.

Translation: "we really suck at this game unless we're poaching left-wingers center-lefties"

Fixed that for you

[President of the great nation of 🏳️‍⚧️]

It's like I told Westy--he's not the enemy. He's the opposition. His successor, who I suspect will run on repealing Trans Pride Tuesdays, is the enemy.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Now that I have more background on why WM left, I can safely say that I do understand why he did what he did. Labor does have a more centralized identity based on the loyalty and work of several powerbrokers who don’t like disloyalty or even unpredictable styles of play. I can say from experience that the Labor bureaucracy and I have gone toe-to-toe at numerous occasions. I was censured initially after leaving the government in Lincoln after the Establishment^TM would let a member of the Federalists into laborcord then the new admitted labor member SNJC. So too was resistance present in letting in bp1202, or when I was denied a house seat over the question of my loyalty by the party heads. The party is at times unfair and slow, but the pendulum swings toward justice. I got SNJC and bp1202 eventually in, I came back stronger then ever by becoming an ideologue in my time in the Fremont parliament, where I could do mostly whatever due to the party needing politicians. I even am apart of the councils of the new president, the same who along with YE denied me a house seat, and am expected to be elected to the house in April no matter what.

Let’s compare this record to what happens in the Right. Lakigigar was screwed over numerous times by the Feds even though he was an opposition candidate and a Fed member. Bagel23’s Faustian pact with the Feds was not enough to guarantee him a house seat. On the right; there are goldbugs, racists, and tried criminals in office or members. This is not a stable, trustworthy party worth your time or allegiance to my guy. Labor has its problems, but the solution is to point it out and work to fix them, as I have done and arguably have won in the long run. It is not to go to the right where you frankly don’t belong. Come home West Midlander, I and everyone else will forgive you and treat you no different the sooner you come home. You don’t even need to go back to being in labor, an Indy registration would be enough. You have so much power at your disposal in the South, it’s time to make the right decision.

You confuse inability/incompetence for intentionally screwing someone over.

It is easy to say "Labor did this, this and this" while Feds fail to do this, that and the other thing, but you forget the underlying backdrop that Labor controls a majority of the votes in this game either directly or indirectly and that means they have the power to deliver results favorable to their desired outcome in most every circumstance.

We don't have the same luxuries to deliver votes. When Laki ran for House, several of us voted for him until we ran out of votes. Because duh, we are the minority. If we had the votes to win a majority, he would be in the House and the controlling vote on legislation. When Bagel ran for CoD as part of a slate, we did our best to GOTV for him until we ran out of votes because three of the "recruitment wave" people didn't show up. If Bagel had wanted to run for House, he would be on the slate now. Perhaps you might have missed a certain thread begging people to run for office?

Labor is great at the spoils system because they have reduced the game to merely marching out the soldiers and have that down to a well oiled machine, meaning they don't have to worry about 3 new people not showing up, or someone going offline randomly just before the election only to come back on Monday and say "My bad!". For them they can substitute, we need every vote.

You will never understand what it is like over here.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

WM is betraying the South by not resigning and calling for a soecial election.

No that is what he would be doing by resigning absent a compelling impediment to performing his duties.

He is betraying Pericles and MB, and that is what it comes down to these days. This is no longer Atlasia, this is the Godfather and we all no what happens if you betray the Don. This standard never existed before. Never. It wasn't applied from Winston Disraeli to Adam/Canis. But because Vern decided to go one route, everyone else is a horrible person for taking a different interpretation of their duty and their oath relative to their party?

To be honest windjammer, we have gone too far down the road of your's, Adams and since 2018 Leinad's vision of partisanship uber alles. Yes too much centrism has harmed this game, but at the same time lopsided partisanship has as well. The progenitor of this thread has openly called for the right's elimination from the game on discord, how is that not the same as one big centrist party dominating everything? But then again, you guys never have been good at seeing anyone else's perspective.

Translation: "we really suck at this game unless we're poaching left-wingers center-lefties"

Fixed that for you


Think about the thought process, Adam. Your whole mindset regarding Atlasia only works if there are two equally strong loyal blocks opposing each other.

The problem is that doesn't exist in the reality that is this forum's population, and without intending to Labor has become the new JCP.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

WM is betraying the South by not resigning and calling for a soecial election.

No that is what he would be doing by resigning absent a compelling impediment to performing his duties.

He is betraying Pericles and MB, and that is what it comes down to these days. This is no longer Atlasia, this is the Godfather and we all no what happens if you betray the Don. This standard never existed before. Never. It wasn't applied from Winston Disraeli to Adam/Canis. But because Vern decided to go one route, everyone else is a horrible person for taking a different interpretation of their duty and their oath relative to their party?

To be honest windjammer, we have gone too far down the road of your's, Adams and since 2018 Leinad's vision of partisanship uber alles. Yes too much centrism has harmed this game, but at the same time lopsided partisanship has as well. The progenitor of this thread has openly called for the right's elimination from the game on discord, how is that not the same as one big centrist party dominating everything? But then again, you guys never have been good at seeing anyone else's perspective.

Yankee,
How can you not prefer this era of hyperpolarization than what Atlasia used to be. Remember TPP, this garbage big tent party that was going to destroy this game: so many crual personal attacks made against many players led by a psychopath. We were among the first victims and targets of these degenerates and I'm glad this era of "not partisanship" is gone.

I prefer much more this period where actually, people from fghtagn to MB and PSOL actually stand for something.

To be honest I prefer 2014.  Feds and Labor were equal in size and you had both DR and TPP as smaller third parties and elections were competitive, Senators debated and you actually had swing voters. It would have stayed that way if we had protected our two regions from invaders and Federalists didn't shoot themselves in the foot for personal gain, while the chair was going through a RL crisis.

Nobody could argue that people didn't stand for things with TNF, shua, Lumine and myself in the Senate. If anything, there is very little standing for things now compared to then, because the quality of the debate has declined so much.

Yes, I think what WestMildlander did is extremely bad. He betrayed his friends because some guys were Nice to him on discord. I have done many dirty things but I have always been loyal. When Labor helps you to get elected to an important office like Southern Governor it is expected from you to be loyal to the party and I don't see that as controversial.

But anyway, personally I have always known that WestMildlander was going to betray us. Heavy influencable, history of backstabbing, a tendancy of changing his political views all the time to look edgy, that was going to happen.

But I understand why MB is being more pissed about this because WM was his friend and he invested a lot in helping him be elected to then see this same friend doing everything he can to destroy him politically without any guilt.

I never said you shouldn't be mad. I just said that I didn't think in my personal opinion that it justified resignation when we have something in American style politics called, a regularly scheduled election for such "political" questions to be addressed by the voters.

You guys then flipped out because someone had a different opinion than the machine.

[windjammer]

Now that I have more background on why WM left, I can safely say that I do understand why he did what he did. Labor does have a more centralized identity based on the loyalty and work of several powerbrokers who don’t like disloyalty or even unpredictable styles of play. I can say from experience that the Labor bureaucracy and I have gone toe-to-toe at numerous occasions. I was censured initially after leaving the government in Lincoln after the Establishment^TM would let a member of the Federalists into laborcord then the new admitted labor member SNJC. So too was resistance present in letting in bp1202, or when I was denied a house seat over the question of my loyalty by the party heads. The party is at times unfair and slow, but the pendulum swings toward justice. I got SNJC and bp1202 eventually in, I came back stronger then ever by becoming an ideologue in my time in the Fremont parliament, where I could do mostly whatever due to the party needing politicians. I even am apart of the councils of the new president, the same who along with YE denied me a house seat, and am expected to be elected to the house in April no matter what.

Let’s compare this record to what happens in the Right. Lakigigar was screwed over numerous times by the Feds even though he was an opposition candidate and a Fed member. Bagel23’s Faustian pact with the Feds was not enough to guarantee him a house seat. On the right; there are goldbugs, racists, and tried criminals in office or members. This is not a stable, trustworthy party worth your time or allegiance to my guy. Labor has its problems, but the solution is to point it out and work to fix them, as I have done and arguably have won in the long run. It is not to go to the right where you frankly don’t belong. Come home West Midlander, I and everyone else will forgive you and treat you no different the sooner you come home. You don’t even need to go back to being in labor, an Indy registration would be enough. You have so much power at your disposal in the South, it’s time to make the right decision.

The establishment has never done anything against him. This is non sense

[PSOL]

Now that I have more background on why WM left, I can safely say that I do understand why he did what he did. Labor does have a more centralized identity based on the loyalty and work of several powerbrokers who don’t like disloyalty or even unpredictable styles of play. I can say from experience that the Labor bureaucracy and I have gone toe-to-toe at numerous occasions. I was censured initially after leaving the government in Lincoln after the Establishment^TM would let a member of the Federalists into laborcord then the new admitted labor member SNJC. So too was resistance present in letting in bp1202, or when I was denied a house seat over the question of my loyalty by the party heads. The party is at times unfair and slow, but the pendulum swings toward justice. I got SNJC and bp1202 eventually in, I came back stronger then ever by becoming an ideologue in my time in the Fremont parliament, where I could do mostly whatever due to the party needing politicians. I even am apart of the councils of the new president, the same who along with YE denied me a house seat, and am expected to be elected to the house in April no matter what.

Let’s compare this record to what happens in the Right. Lakigigar was screwed over numerous times by the Feds even though he was an opposition candidate and a Fed member. Bagel23’s Faustian pact with the Feds was not enough to guarantee him a house seat. On the right; there are goldbugs, racists, and tried criminals in office or members. This is not a stable, trustworthy party worth your time or allegiance to my guy. Labor has its problems, but the solution is to point it out and work to fix them, as I have done and arguably have won in the long run. It is not to go to the right where you frankly don’t belong. Come home West Midlander, I and everyone else will forgive you and treat you no different the sooner you come home. You don’t even need to go back to being in labor, an Indy registration would be enough. You have so much power at your disposal in the South, it’s time to make the right decision.

The establishment has never done anything against him. This is non sense

That is true. Whatever grievance WM has against the party, he should come out and say it instead of giving a non answer.