Extra Republican Electoral vote in 2008?

[Emsworth]

Exactly how is it unconstitutional?  What clause do you believe it violates?

"The House of Representatives shall be composed of Members chosen every second Year by the People of the several States."

The District of Columbia is not one of the "several States."

[J. J.]

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And?

Wyoming gave us Dick Cheney.  I rest my case.
[/quote]

DC gave us Al Gore.

[zorkpolitics]

quote]
"The House of Representatives shall be composed of Members chosen every second Year by the People of the several States."

The District of Columbia is not one of the "several States."
[/quote]

So the legislation could state that the citizens of DC shall be considered residents of the state of MD for the purposes of electing a congressman.. 

[Gustaf]

Everyone ought to have equal representation, IMHO. The easiest thing would perhaps be to not count DC as a place of residence for voting purposes? Otherwise, the most interesting thing would be to adjoin DC to Virginia, since that state would be a swing state.

[Undisguised Sockpuppet]

Or simply pass a cosntittuional amendment saying that people from areas that aren't given representation in congress don't have constittional protections? That way we can shut up the DC statehood/puerto rico independence people in gitmo.

[Brandon H]

One, the bill is obviously unconstitutional.

Two, anyone who thinks DC should get two senators should be shot.

I agree that constitutionally DC needs either statehood or a constitutional amendment to get representation. That being said, I would support either option so that residents of the district can get representation. I can tell that A18 is scared of two extra dem senators or else he wouldn't want to shoot me.

I would support Senatorial representation for DC as long as there was a system whereby the winners of the Republican and Democratic primaries both became Senators

I take it from the you weren't serious, but Parties are not mentioned anywhere in the Constitution.


Before the passage of the 17th Amendment, Senators were appointed to represent the State Government. As DC does not have a state government, they should not have any Senators. I would not have a problem with them getting a member of the House of Representatives since they are U.S. citizens and should have representation. Though adding it as a disitrict to Maryland or Virginia would be acceptable.

[jimrtex]

The net result would be one more electoral vote to Utah, which is almost 100% sure to be Republican.  It will also end the theoretical outcome of a tie in the Electoral College. 

The legislation, HR 2043, specifically says that the extra Utah representative would not be taken into account when determining the number of electors.

Too bad the superior HR 190 isn't going anywhere.

[jimrtex]

One, the bill is obviously unconstitutional.

Exactly how is it unconstitutional?  What clause do you believe it violates?

Article I, Section 2.

The House of Representatives shall be composed of Members chosen ... by the People of the several States.

[jimrtex]

Everyone ought to have equal representation, IMHO. The easiest thing would perhaps be to not count DC as a place of residence for voting purposes? Otherwise, the most interesting thing would be to adjoin DC to Virginia, since that state would be a swing state.

The District of Columbia used to include an area on the south bank of the Potomac.  If you look at a county map of Virginia, the SW boundary of Arglington completes the square borders of the original DC (except where the city of Alexandria has chomped off a corner.  Alexandria also extends outside the square).

The southwestern area was retroceded to Virginia in 1846, and has been under Virginia jurisdiction ever since.  It is also the location of the Pentagon which as a federal property is under US jurisdiction.

The same could be done for the rest of the district, retroceding it to Maryland.  Maryland could make Washington a city-county (like Baltimore city).  With no district, the 23rd Amendment is moot.

[minionofmidas]

I've always wondered about the theory that DC was never supposed to have many people in it. If that's true, why was the previously existing city of Alexandria included in it? In fact, in 1820, three of the 20 largest cities in the US were in the D.C. - Washington (9th largest, a position it was once again to reach in the mid-20th century), ALexandria, and Georgetown. It was only in the period after that - down to the early 20th century - that DC's urban growth seriously lagged behind.
Washington City and the D.C. have only been coterminous since 1890.

[MasterJedi]

It's unconstitutional so passing the bill wouldn't help. Plus it shouldn't have representitives in Congress because it's not a state, it never should be a state and it wasn't created to become a state.

[minionofmidas]

it wasn't created to become a state.

Now that is true of Alaska and Hawaii too, you know.

[Speed of Sound]

i dont see why Utah should get anything else.  theyre taxed but not represented, which is unconstitutional.

[jimrtex]

i dont see why Utah should get anything else.  theyre taxed but not represented, which is unconstitutional.

If the HoR were maintained at its traditional size of 435, then North Carolina would lose a seat. 

[jimrtex]

I've always wondered about the theory that DC was never supposed to have many people in it. If that's true, why was the previously existing city of Alexandria included in it? In fact, in 1820, three of the 20 largest cities in the US were in the D.C. - Washington (9th largest, a position it was once again to reach in the mid-20th century), ALexandria, and Georgetown. It was only in the period after that - down to the early 20th century - that DC's urban growth seriously lagged behind.
Washington City and the D.C. have only been coterminous since 1890.

In 1830, 5 of the 20 largest cities were in Philadelphia.   The urban population was insignificant at the time.   New York City was by far the largest city in 1830, yet barely contained 10% of the NY state population.

DC had 0.24% of the US population in 1820, and it remained about the same until the Civil War, when it jumped to 0.34%, it slowly increased to 0.40% by 1930, and then jumped to its peak of 0.53% in 1950 (New Deal and WWII).   It has since dropped to 0.19%, its lowest share since 1800.

[Gustaf]

Everyone ought to have equal representation, IMHO. The easiest thing would perhaps be to not count DC as a place of residence for voting purposes? Otherwise, the most interesting thing would be to adjoin DC to Virginia, since that state would be a swing state.

The District of Columbia used to include an area on the south bank of the Potomac.  If you look at a county map of Virginia, the SW boundary of Arglington completes the square borders of the original DC (except where the city of Alexandria has chomped off a corner.  Alexandria also extends outside the square).

The southwestern area was retroceded to Virginia in 1846, and has been under Virginia jurisdiction ever since.  It is also the location of the Pentagon which as a federal property is under US jurisdiction.

The same could be done for the rest of the district, retroceding it to Maryland.  Maryland could make Washington a city-county (like Baltimore city).  With no district, the 23rd Amendment is moot.

Putting DC in Maryland would only serve to make an already safely Democratic state super-safe. It would be much more interesting to put it in Virginia. But I guess Maryland would be the compromise. Dems gain a CD but lose 2 EVs.

[jimrtex]

Putting DC in Maryland would only serve to make an already safely Democratic state super-safe. It would be much more interesting to put it in Virginia. But I guess Maryland would be the compromise. Dems gain a CD but lose 2 EVs.

The cession of DC by Maryland may be contingent on its use as a capital district.  It might be illegal to transfer it to Virginia, even if Virginia accepted it.  Maryland might not want it back either, but the US could threaten to move the capital to Missouri, or South Dakota, unless Maryland took Washington back.

[minionofmidas]

I've always wondered about the theory that DC was never supposed to have many people in it. If that's true, why was the previously existing city of Alexandria included in it? In fact, in 1820, three of the 20 largest cities in the US were in the D.C. - Washington (9th largest, a position it was once again to reach in the mid-20th century), ALexandria, and Georgetown. It was only in the period after that - down to the early 20th century - that DC's urban growth seriously lagged behind.
Washington City and the D.C. have only been coterminous since 1890.

In 1830, 5 of the 20 largest cities were in Philadelphia. 

I know.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Still... ignoring the much larger size of the US and suburbanization for a moment, you could claim that DC was relatively larger in 1820 than it is now.

[jimrtex]

DC had 0.24% of the US population in 1820, and it remained about the same until the Civil War, when it jumped to 0.34%, it slowly increased to 0.40% by 1930, and then jumped to its peak of 0.53% in 1950 (New Deal and WWII).   It has since dropped to 0.19%, its lowest share since 1800.

Still... ignoring the much larger size of the US and suburbanization for a moment, you could claim that DC was relatively larger in 1820 than it is now.

And you could claim that DC is relatively smaller now than it was in 1820.

[MasterJedi]

it wasn't created to become a state.

Now that is true of Alaska and Hawaii too, you know.

They became territories, DC was created when the country was formed so it wouldn't[/b] be a state.

[minionofmidas]

it wasn't created to become a state.

Now that is true of Alaska and Hawaii too, you know.

They became territories, DC was created when the country was formed so it wouldn't be a state.

I'd have to look up the details, but IIRC Alaska and Hawaii were not - at least not initially - set up as normal territories like the Lower 48 before they became states.

[Kevinstat]

Wyoming gave us Dick Cheney.  I rest my case.

DC gave us Al Gore.

Good One.  I do far prefer Gore to Cheney, but I'll admit that Gore isn't the kind of person people would go "Woo Hoo" about having them come from their state (or district, as the case may be).

[Bleeding heart conservative, HTMLdon]

theyre taxed but not represented, which is unconstitutional.

Don't tax them then.

[Joe Republic]

theyre taxed but not represented, which is unconstitutional.

Don't tax them then.

Turn DC into a tax haven?  Is that really a good idea?  Overcrowding is already an issue in the city, and that would only serve to make it worse.

[Kevinstat]

theyre taxed but not represented, which is unconstitutional.

Don't tax them then.

The Commonwealth of the District of Columbia.  Interesting prospect.  That's kind of what it sounds like when you propose having D.C. residents not be taxed by the federal government, although I know Puerto Rico doesn't have any electoral votes.  Of course the 23rd Amendment could be amended to apply only as long as residents of the District of Columbia were taxed, but some might consider it hypocritical to prevent any future “representation without taxation” of the District of Columbia without eliminating the present taxation without (full) representation.