Israeli General Election (2019) II: Electric Boogaloo (17.9.2019)

[Co-Chair Bagel23]

Omg Israel please delete Bibi

https://www.vox.com/world/2019/6/16/18681116/benjamin-netanyahu-israel-town-golan-heights-trump-heights

[Famous Mortimer]

Labour updates:
* Former Mossad head Dani Yatom sent a SMS to voters that he's planning on running. I doubt he has a silver of a chance.
* Amir Peretz continues flip flopping on the issue of a primary, and is now pivoting to support an open primary for leader AND list, allegedly as part of an alliance with former MK Eitan Cabel.
* Ehud Barak is looking like this election's wildcard. According to Channel 2, he's trying to form a new party with figures like former IDF Chief Gadi Isenkot, Tzipi Livni, former liberal Likud Minister Dan Meridor and retired general Yair Golan. He's hoping to use this party to unite the entire center-left. He's also negotiating with Amir Peretz and Itzik Shmuli to cooperate with Labour. Could this mean Shaffir is down in the internal polls and these two are the frontrunners? Maybe, I hope not.

In Meretz: MK Ilan Gilon officially endorsed former MK Nitsan Horovits, making it clear that he's part of that camp.

So I remember Meretz used to be divided between a socialist wing that was dovish but not super dovish (represented by GIlon) and a neo-liberal wing that was super dovish (represented by GAlon). I'm seeing news stories saying that Horowitz is backed by the "red faction" which I would assume is the socialist GIlon faction but I also see news stories saying he's backed by former leader GAlon. So is it fair to say that the two wings that used to fight for control of the party have put their differences behind them and are now united against the Zandberg wing?

Also, what does the Zandberg wing stand for? I assume it's both socialist AND super dovish?

Is the unity between GIlon and GAlon factions just opportunistic? I would have thought GAlon had more in common with Zandberg than with GIlon.

[The Mikado]

Labour updates:
* Former Mossad head Dani Yatom sent a SMS to voters that he's planning on running. I doubt he has a silver of a chance.
* Amir Peretz continues flip flopping on the issue of a primary, and is now pivoting to support an open primary for leader AND list, allegedly as part of an alliance with former MK Eitan Cabel.
* Ehud Barak is looking like this election's wildcard. According to Channel 2, he's trying to form a new party with figures like former IDF Chief Gadi Isenkot, Tzipi Livni, former liberal Likud Minister Dan Meridor and retired general Yair Golan. He's hoping to use this party to unite the entire center-left. He's also negotiating with Amir Peretz and Itzik Shmuli to cooperate with Labour. Could this mean Shaffir is down in the internal polls and these two are the frontrunners? Maybe, I hope not.

In Meretz: MK Ilan Gilon officially endorsed former MK Nitsan Horovits, making it clear that he's part of that camp.

Israel needs another center left party as much as a person needs a stroke or heart attack.

This is a terrible, terrible idea.

[Hnv1]

Labour updates:
* Former Mossad head Dani Yatom sent a SMS to voters that he's planning on running. I doubt he has a silver of a chance.
* Amir Peretz continues flip flopping on the issue of a primary, and is now pivoting to support an open primary for leader AND list, allegedly as part of an alliance with former MK Eitan Cabel.
* Ehud Barak is looking like this election's wildcard. According to Channel 2, he's trying to form a new party with figures like former IDF Chief Gadi Isenkot, Tzipi Livni, former liberal Likud Minister Dan Meridor and retired general Yair Golan. He's hoping to use this party to unite the entire center-left. He's also negotiating with Amir Peretz and Itzik Shmuli to cooperate with Labour. Could this mean Shaffir is down in the internal polls and these two are the frontrunners? Maybe, I hope not.

In Meretz: MK Ilan Gilon officially endorsed former MK Nitsan Horovits, making it clear that he's part of that camp.

So I remember Meretz used to be divided between a socialist wing that was dovish but not super dovish (represented by GIlon) and a neo-liberal wing that was super dovish (represented by GAlon). I'm seeing news stories saying that Horowitz is backed by the "red faction" which I would assume is the socialist GIlon faction but I also see news stories saying he's backed by former leader GAlon. So is it fair to say that the two wings that used to fight for control of the party have put their differences behind them and are now united against the Zandberg wing?

Also, what does the Zandberg wing stand for? I assume it's both socialist AND super dovish?

Is the unity between GIlon and GAlon factions just opportunistic? I would have thought GAlon had more in common with Zandberg than with GIlon.

Complicated. part of the old Galon camp supports Horowitz because they like the commies want to join Labour, the other part (Freg and Raz) support Zandberg for different reasons.

I wouldn't say the Zandberg "wing" stands for anything distinctively, it has a myriad of people. Zandberg herself is socialist (but in a more global way to Gilon old socialism) but also supports green politics and feminist radicalism.

This is less of an argument about ideology. it's more about personal feud and which way the party should go: merge with Labour, or a united Arab-Jewish front. 

[Walmart_shopper]

Labour updates:
* Former Mossad head Dani Yatom sent a SMS to voters that he's planning on running. I doubt he has a silver of a chance.
* Amir Peretz continues flip flopping on the issue of a primary, and is now pivoting to support an open primary for leader AND list, allegedly as part of an alliance with former MK Eitan Cabel.
* Ehud Barak is looking like this election's wildcard. According to Channel 2, he's trying to form a new party with figures like former IDF Chief Gadi Isenkot, Tzipi Livni, former liberal Likud Minister Dan Meridor and retired general Yair Golan. He's hoping to use this party to unite the entire center-left. He's also negotiating with Amir Peretz and Itzik Shmuli to cooperate with Labour. Could this mean Shaffir is down in the internal polls and these two are the frontrunners? Maybe, I hope not.

In Meretz: MK Ilan Gilon officially endorsed former MK Nitsan Horovits, making it clear that he's part of that camp.

Israel needs another center left party as much as a person needs a stroke or heart attack.

This is a terrible, terrible idea.

Other than a decrepit and moribund Labor, Israel doesn't actually have a center-left party.

[America Needs R'hllor]

Labour updates:
* Former Mossad head Dani Yatom sent a SMS to voters that he's planning on running. I doubt he has a silver of a chance.
* Amir Peretz continues flip flopping on the issue of a primary, and is now pivoting to support an open primary for leader AND list, allegedly as part of an alliance with former MK Eitan Cabel.
* Ehud Barak is looking like this election's wildcard. According to Channel 2, he's trying to form a new party with figures like former IDF Chief Gadi Isenkot, Tzipi Livni, former liberal Likud Minister Dan Meridor and retired general Yair Golan. He's hoping to use this party to unite the entire center-left. He's also negotiating with Amir Peretz and Itzik Shmuli to cooperate with Labour. Could this mean Shaffir is down in the internal polls and these two are the frontrunners? Maybe, I hope not.

In Meretz: MK Ilan Gilon officially endorsed former MK Nitsan Horovits, making it clear that he's part of that camp.

Israel needs another center left party as much as a person needs a stroke or heart attack.

This is a terrible, terrible idea.

Other than a decrepit and moribund Labor, Israel doesn't actually have a center-left party.

Well, a Barak-lead party with Meridor and some generals won't be center-left either.

[Oryxslayer]

Labour updates:
* Former Mossad head Dani Yatom sent a SMS to voters that he's planning on running. I doubt he has a silver of a chance.
* Amir Peretz continues flip flopping on the issue of a primary, and is now pivoting to support an open primary for leader AND list, allegedly as part of an alliance with former MK Eitan Cabel.
* Ehud Barak is looking like this election's wildcard. According to Channel 2, he's trying to form a new party with figures like former IDF Chief Gadi Isenkot, Tzipi Livni, former liberal Likud Minister Dan Meridor and retired general Yair Golan. He's hoping to use this party to unite the entire center-left. He's also negotiating with Amir Peretz and Itzik Shmuli to cooperate with Labour. Could this mean Shaffir is down in the internal polls and these two are the frontrunners? Maybe, I hope not.

In Meretz: MK Ilan Gilon officially endorsed former MK Nitsan Horovits, making it clear that he's part of that camp.

Israel needs another center left party as much as a person needs a stroke or heart attack.

This is a terrible, terrible idea.

Other than a decrepit and moribund Labor, Israel doesn't actually have a center-left party.

Well, a Barak-lead party with Meridor and some generals won't be center-left either.

Sounds like Barak just wants to copy Gantz's homework, likely with much worse results.

[danny]

What's happened to Gesher and Orly Levy? Is she going to run again?

Considering her result I don't see her running on her own again, but she might join a different party.

[Famous Mortimer]

Labour updates:
* Former Mossad head Dani Yatom sent a SMS to voters that he's planning on running. I doubt he has a silver of a chance.
* Amir Peretz continues flip flopping on the issue of a primary, and is now pivoting to support an open primary for leader AND list, allegedly as part of an alliance with former MK Eitan Cabel.
* Ehud Barak is looking like this election's wildcard. According to Channel 2, he's trying to form a new party with figures like former IDF Chief Gadi Isenkot, Tzipi Livni, former liberal Likud Minister Dan Meridor and retired general Yair Golan. He's hoping to use this party to unite the entire center-left. He's also negotiating with Amir Peretz and Itzik Shmuli to cooperate with Labour. Could this mean Shaffir is down in the internal polls and these two are the frontrunners? Maybe, I hope not.

In Meretz: MK Ilan Gilon officially endorsed former MK Nitsan Horovits, making it clear that he's part of that camp.

So I remember Meretz used to be divided between a socialist wing that was dovish but not super dovish (represented by GIlon) and a neo-liberal wing that was super dovish (represented by GAlon). I'm seeing news stories saying that Horowitz is backed by the "red faction" which I would assume is the socialist GIlon faction but I also see news stories saying he's backed by former leader GAlon. So is it fair to say that the two wings that used to fight for control of the party have put their differences behind them and are now united against the Zandberg wing?

Also, what does the Zandberg wing stand for? I assume it's both socialist AND super dovish?

Is the unity between GIlon and GAlon factions just opportunistic? I would have thought GAlon had more in common with Zandberg than with GIlon.

Complicated. part of the old Galon camp supports Horowitz because they like the commies want to join Labour, the other part (Freg and Raz) support Zandberg for different reasons.

I wouldn't say the Zandberg "wing" stands for anything distinctively, it has a myriad of people. Zandberg herself is socialist (but in a more global way to Gilon old socialism) but also supports green politics and feminist radicalism.

This is less of an argument about ideology. it's more about personal feud and which way the party should go: merge with Labour, or a united Arab-Jewish front. 

Does Zandberg want an Arab-Jewish front?

[Velasco]

Does Zandberg want an Arab-Jewish front?

Zandberg apparently thinks the future of the left in Israel depends on a Jewish-Arab association. Add green politics and "radical feminism" and she could be my heroine.

Meretz got 156k votes in the last elections, of which 120k were Jewish (down from 150k) and 36k Arab (up from 12k)

If my sources are correct, around 12% of Jewish Israelis identify with the left. The Arab minority represents approx 18%, but turnout among Arabs is low

The prospects for the Israeli left are not very promising. Still, I believe looking after an association with Arabs is preferable to a merger with the dying Labor. I'm speaking in strategic terms, too

[Hnv1]

Labour updates:
* Former Mossad head Dani Yatom sent a SMS to voters that he's planning on running. I doubt he has a silver of a chance.
* Amir Peretz continues flip flopping on the issue of a primary, and is now pivoting to support an open primary for leader AND list, allegedly as part of an alliance with former MK Eitan Cabel.
* Ehud Barak is looking like this election's wildcard. According to Channel 2, he's trying to form a new party with figures like former IDF Chief Gadi Isenkot, Tzipi Livni, former liberal Likud Minister Dan Meridor and retired general Yair Golan. He's hoping to use this party to unite the entire center-left. He's also negotiating with Amir Peretz and Itzik Shmuli to cooperate with Labour. Could this mean Shaffir is down in the internal polls and these two are the frontrunners? Maybe, I hope not.

In Meretz: MK Ilan Gilon officially endorsed former MK Nitsan Horovits, making it clear that he's part of that camp.

So I remember Meretz used to be divided between a socialist wing that was dovish but not super dovish (represented by GIlon) and a neo-liberal wing that was super dovish (represented by GAlon). I'm seeing news stories saying that Horowitz is backed by the "red faction" which I would assume is the socialist GIlon faction but I also see news stories saying he's backed by former leader GAlon. So is it fair to say that the two wings that used to fight for control of the party have put their differences behind them and are now united against the Zandberg wing?

Also, what does the Zandberg wing stand for? I assume it's both socialist AND super dovish?

Is the unity between GIlon and GAlon factions just opportunistic? I would have thought GAlon had more in common with Zandberg than with GIlon.

Complicated. part of the old Galon camp supports Horowitz because they like the commies want to join Labour, the other part (Freg and Raz) support Zandberg for different reasons.

I wouldn't say the Zandberg "wing" stands for anything distinctively, it has a myriad of people. Zandberg herself is socialist (but in a more global way to Gilon old socialism) but also supports green politics and feminist radicalism.

This is less of an argument about ideology. it's more about personal feud and which way the party should go: merge with Labour, or a united Arab-Jewish front. 

Does Zandberg want an Arab-Jewish front?

Well she wasn’t so thrilled a month ago, quite thrilled about the prospect now. The proposal is placing Arab representatives in Meretz instead of a joint front with their parties as that won’t work politically.

Anyhow she was endorsed by the party’s left today. Not that it will help, but still. The leadership elections will take place next Thursday by the 1000 strong party convention, I expect Horowitz to win.

[Famous Mortimer]

So her plan is to like have an equal number of Arab and Jewish members but not to merge with Hadash-Ta'al?

[Hnv1]

So her plan is to like have an equal number of Arab and Jewish members but not to merge with Hadash-Ta'al?

there were talks of it. I doubt it could happen as the party convention won't pass it even if she somehow won.

[danny]

The Arab parties have agreed to reunite, which makes sense considering the two parties combined for 3 less seats than the united party.

[America Needs R'hllor]

Lol, Zandberg's situation in Meretz is really sad. Of the party's top candidates, the bolded support Horovits, the ones in italics support Farij\Raz and only she supports herself:

1. Zandberg
2. Gilon
3. Rozin
4. Farij
5. Salalha
6. Baruch-Ron
7. Raz

Avi Buskila, the number 8, also seems to be supportive of Farij\Raz, or at least a joint Arab-Jewish leadership.

[danny]

Lol, Zandberg's situation in Meretz is really sad. Of the party's top candidates, the bloded support Horovits, the ones in italics support Farij\Raz and only she supports herself:

1. Zandberg
2. Gilon
3. Rozin
4. Farij
5. Salalha
6. Baruch-Ron
7. Raz

Avi Buskila, the number 8, also seems to be supportive of Farij\Raz, or at least a joint Arab-Jewish leadership.

Freij and Raz dropped out and endorsed Zandberg a few days ago...

[America Needs R'hllor]

Lol, Zandberg's situation in Meretz is really sad. Of the party's top candidates, the bloded support Horovits, the ones in italics support Farij\Raz and only she supports herself:

1. Zandberg
2. Gilon
3. Rozin
4. Farij
5. Salalha
6. Baruch-Ron
7. Raz

Avi Buskila, the number 8, also seems to be supportive of Farij\Raz, or at least a joint Arab-Jewish leadership.

Freij and Raz dropped out and endorsed Zandberg a few days ago...

They did? Wow, missed that. Looks like she has at least some support then: Freij, Raz and Gaby Leski (number 9).

[Walmart_shopper]

The Arab parties have agreed to reunite, which makes sense considering the two parties combined for 3 less seats than the united party.

Yeah, this is a pretty big deal.

[Hnv1]

Lol, Zandberg's situation in Meretz is really sad. Of the party's top candidates, the bolded support Horovits, the ones in italics support Farij\Raz and only she supports herself:

1. Zandberg
2. Gilon
3. Rozin
4. Farij
5. Salalha
6. Baruch-Ron
7. Raz

Avi Buskila, the number 8, also seems to be supportive of Farij\Raz, or at least a joint Arab-Jewish leadership.

Salalha and Baruch-Ron have no power base by themselves and are basically puppets of the Gilon wing

[Intell]

Lol, Zandberg's situation in Meretz is really sad. Of the party's top candidates, the bolded support Horovits, the ones in italics support Farij\Raz and only she supports herself:

1. Zandberg
2. Gilon
3. Rozin
4. Farij
5. Salalha
6. Baruch-Ron
7. Raz

Avi Buskila, the number 8, also seems to be supportive of Farij\Raz, or at least a joint Arab-Jewish leadership.

Salalha and Baruch-Ron have no power base by themselves and are basically puppets of the Gilon wing

So what happened to the right wing of Meretz? The green liberalism wing of Zehava Gal-On?

Zandenberg from my knowledge is a new-left socialist while Gillon is a more of an old school socialist maybe more left on economics, left but less left on on security, the war and relationship with arabs.

[Hnv1]

Lol, Zandberg's situation in Meretz is really sad. Of the party's top candidates, the bolded support Horovits, the ones in italics support Farij\Raz and only she supports herself:

1. Zandberg
2. Gilon
3. Rozin
4. Farij
5. Salalha
6. Baruch-Ron
7. Raz

Avi Buskila, the number 8, also seems to be supportive of Farij\Raz, or at least a joint Arab-Jewish leadership.

Salalha and Baruch-Ron have no power base by themselves and are basically puppets of the Gilon wing

So what happened to the right wing of Meretz? The green liberalism wing of Zehava Gal-On?

Zandenberg from my knowledge is a new-left socialist while Gillon is a more of an old school socialist maybe more left on economics, left but less left on on security, the war and relationship with arabs.

The Galon wing wasn’t the right of the party, that’s the Gilon wing. The Galon wing is split, Rozin is supporting Horowitz, Raz/Freg/Lasky are with Zandberg.

[Intell]

Lol, Zandberg's situation in Meretz is really sad. Of the party's top candidates, the bolded support Horovits, the ones in italics support Farij\Raz and only she supports herself:

1. Zandberg
2. Gilon
3. Rozin
4. Farij
5. Salalha
6. Baruch-Ron
7. Raz

Avi Buskila, the number 8, also seems to be supportive of Farij\Raz, or at least a joint Arab-Jewish leadership.

Salalha and Baruch-Ron have no power base by themselves and are basically puppets of the Gilon wing

So what happened to the right wing of Meretz? The green liberalism wing of Zehava Gal-On?

Zandenberg from my knowledge is a new-left socialist while Gillon is a more of an old school socialist maybe more left on economics, left but less left on on security, the war and relationship with arabs.

The Galon wing wasn’t the right of the party, that’s the Gilon wing. The Galon wing is split, Rozin is supporting Horowitz, Raz/Freg/Lasky are with Zandberg.

Wait hold on, when parrot guy did his timeline thing/when Gillon challanged Galon it seemed like Gillon was the more left-wing candidate, or is that just on economics which does not really affect the left-right wings within Meretz..

[America Needs R'hllor]

Lol, Zandberg's situation in Meretz is really sad. Of the party's top candidates, the bolded support Horovits, the ones in italics support Farij\Raz and only she supports herself:

1. Zandberg
2. Gilon
3. Rozin
4. Farij
5. Salalha
6. Baruch-Ron
7. Raz

Avi Buskila, the number 8, also seems to be supportive of Farij\Raz, or at least a joint Arab-Jewish leadership.

Salalha and Baruch-Ron have no power base by themselves and are basically puppets of the Gilon wing

So what happened to the right wing of Meretz? The green liberalism wing of Zehava Gal-On?

Zandenberg from my knowledge is a new-left socialist while Gillon is a more of an old school socialist maybe more left on economics, left but less left on on security, the war and relationship with arabs.

The Galon wing wasn’t the right of the party, that’s the Gilon wing. The Galon wing is split, Rozin is supporting Horowitz, Raz/Freg/Lasky are with Zandberg.

Wait hold on, when parrot guy did his timeline thing/when Gillon challanged Galon it seemed like Gillon was the more left-wing candidate, or is that just on economics which does not really affect the left-right wings within Meretz..

Yeah it's economic. The Gilon wing is more socialist, but I'd say they also have a more strongly zionist ethos.

[Hnv1]

^ this is why I always believed that Israel's center-left and left need to double down on the Zionist ethos while also becoming more leftist on economics.

I think it is a good combo to win back votes as it matches the right-wing nationalist-populism with a form of left-wing nationalist-populism.

Why buy the fake when you can get the real deal? Who ever wants nationalistic ethos and is not religious has Likud and B&W they wouldn’t need a pale version. Plus left wing economic populism is not such a hot product in Israeli society. Most Likud voters have very little sympathy for unions or taxation.

[urutzizu]

^ this is why I always believed that Israel's center-left and left need to double down on the Zionist ethos while also becoming more leftist on economics.

I think it is a good combo to win back votes as it matches the right-wing nationalist-populism with a form of left-wing nationalist-populism.

Why buy the fake when you can get the real deal? Who ever wants nationalistic ethos and is not religious has Likud and B&W they wouldn’t need a pale version. Plus left wing economic populism is not such a hot product in Israeli society. Most Likud voters have very little sympathy for unions or taxation.

Wasnt shas in the 90's basically the choice for Left-wing populism and a nationalistic security policy and one of the reasons why they did so even well among the poor (non-haredi) mizrahim?
I could imagine many mizrahim voting for this kind of party, one that rejects the (perceived) ashkenazi liberalism of B&W and Labor both on economic and security issues.
There must be massive untapped potential for the left among poor mizrahim who currently vote for the likud, a party that goes completely against their economic interest.